Last week at York, Lionel reps indicated the newest batch of N&W J Class engines were shipping to dealers & distributors. Anyone get their’s yet?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
There was a Facebook video by Derek from Notch 6 who unboxed one.
I saw one on my layout just this morning.
Scott Smith
Attachments
Images (2)
OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Gilly@N&W posted:OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Ohhhhh this is a $64,000 question!!
I’m guessing 601, 603 and 610. We are letting him include J1s right?? 
I'd personally like to see the 611 excursion versions. Anyone able to share a video? I'm very curious as to how the custom crew talk sounds came out.
Looks nice Scott, hope you enjoy it.
What color is the stripe?
M J Breen posted:Gilly@N&W posted:OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Ohhhhh this is a $64,000 question!!
I’m guessing 601, 603 and 610. We are letting him include J1s right??
I'm pretty sure he has an unshrouded 610.
Just did a MTH Cab# search. The only #s missing from the Premier line are 600, 606, 609. Since Lionel just did the 600 and I know Lionel did the 606, if Scott is missing any number, it's probably the 609.
Stripe looks too red to me. What do you think in person Scott?
Brian at Legacy Station shipped my 2016 excursion version today. I bought this engine for authenticity. The stripe on the model is way too red compared to the prototype. I’m a little nervous already. I’ve got Lionel passenger cars that I plan to pull behind this. It looks like that Camera observation car red has been used on the engine too. I may have to send this back. Look at the N&W car behind Scott’s engine. It’s the authentic Tuscan color which is way off from the engine. Ouch!
Attachments
Images (1)
MartyE posted:Stripe looks too red to me. What do you think in person Scott?
I thought so as well. It’s close to one of the Williams J from a few years back. It's close to the theater car red. If you look close I have a Tuscan red passenger car behind it. I have been told they will be offering a replacement shell with the correct color.
Scott Smith
I'm not sure how they ended up with that shade of red. The last batch of Lionel J's came out less than 6 years ago, and had accurate colored stripes...
I have one on one order, Spirit of Roanoke, when it comes out. I’ll have to evaluate it.
I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie, this is spot on. I don’t want to come off as a complainer, but how does this keep happening? At some point, a corrective action plan has to be put in place, right?
The color doesn't look bad to me (same as the theater car). It was based off of photos from the 1940's & 50's. I'm more worried that it might end up with the Vision Line Big Boy whistle instead of 611's whistle.
M J Breen posted:Well it didn’t take long for the usual crowd to show up.
And for the record - I have 5 Js on order, And I have 6 of the baggage cars and RPOs, and the NS theater car too. My 746 and 600 came in with the same issue. I talked to Lionel at York about this, they acknowledged the mistake, they’re going to do right by me and at the end of the day I’ll be satisfied.
Now can we keep this thread to just about the folks who only ordered the New Js and if they’ve shown up for them?
The usual crowd? I see folks who ordered the J, myself included a little concerned about it.
The thread so far, before you put up your cute picture was a very civil discussion with no one getting personal. The thread as a whole has been fairly calm for this type of error. My compliments to most of those who have so far posted.
Lionel has had a great many paint issues this year that has caused them to replace shells at their cost, they stood behind their product, but nonetheless it has been happening a lot. Ryan acknowledged that and said they are putting procedures in place to help prevent that. The Polar RPO cars were part of that, which I have sitting at my dealer. Ryan said this would be corrected.
The stripe looks incorrect on an early video and now Scott's photo. I also spoke with Ryan and he did acknowledge that there may be an issue but he hadn't seen the video I referenced to him but he did promise Lionel would make it right if it wasn't. That was good enough for me. He did say the Spirit of Roanoke might have been darker so I should wait until it's delivered. Since I haven't seen it in person I was going to wait to post what I was told at York but since you accused folks of "whining" I thought I'd post this.
The tool car is definitely more on the pink / red as I also have one of those.
So let's continue to discuss this like grownups which IMO we have. We can bring these issues up, discuss them like adults, as long as we don't get personal and keep the thread civil.
I personally want to thank Ryan for listening to my concerns and assuring me Lionel will stand behind their products 100%.
Great news! Sounds like there’s gonna be a fix. Looking forward to getting my engine. Cool!
Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
N&W 1218 posted:Great news! Sounds like there’s gonna be a fix. Looking forward to getting my engine. Cool!
That is great news. I was apprehensive after seeing Derek's video but after talking to Ryan about the J and the Polar items I'm satisfied Lionel will make them right if need be. It shouldn't happen but it did, they'll make it right, so I'm moving on until or if something changes.
Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Thats the one I have on order. When it comes in I plan on taking my AFT T1 & GS4 and comparing them for paint and other details. I will post pics.
DaveSlie posted:Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Thats the one I have on order. When it comes in I plan on taking my AFT T1 & GS4 and comparing them for paint and other details. I will post pics.
Thank you! Post a video too if you could, I'm interested in the sounds.
The red looks absolutely perfect for the 746 version 👍🏼 - I was concerned that was going to be to maroon
Thank you Lionel
dorfj2 posted:The red looks absolutely perfect for the 746 version 👍🏼 - I was concerned that was going to be to maroon
Thank you Lionel
Ryan mentioned the the Spirit of Roanoke would be a darker stripe so I'm waiting to see. I'm glad you're happy with the version you ordered! Have fun with it.
Scott,
I want that locomotive. I should have just taken it from you on Thursday night at Steak and Lube.
Erol
Mine is early Williams. Perfect paint - very pleased. I did have to bring the tender truck sideframes inboard about 1/8".
The Tuscan paint color isn't the only error. Larger to me is the use of the Alligator vs Laird crosshead. N&W 600-604 had Laird, 605-613 had Alligator crossheads.
Gilly, I noticed that also. The tender trucks appear to be incorrect, too. I'm guessing it doesn't have a curved tender deck, either.
I think Lionel did a version of the early J where those details were correct at some time. I think they slapped 600 on a later version J here and put spoked pilot trucks on there.
I'm not a fan of the color choice there also.
Did they take down the Notch 6 video?
Based on some of their more recent releases, when the J-Classes were announced, I expected Lionel would mess something up, whether it be the colors, sounds, functions, or anything in between. This release has proven that theory true, however, there are things Lionel has improved upon from the previous run of J's. One of the things I'm noticing right off the bat is the fact that on the last run of J's, the stripe on the engine and tender are very noticeably misaligned, and that has been corrected on this run. Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Peter Araujo posted:I'm more worried that it might end up with the Vision Line Big Boy whistle instead of 611's whistle.
|FWIW.Technically this whistle is correct for any of the "present day' versions of the 611 i.e " Spirit of Roanoke" for example as she is currently wearing a Hancock 3 chime whistle as is 844,4014, as well as. the mothballed 3985.
I believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
The video is still up and will remain up on our Facebook page.
TrainMan1225 posted:Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Never mind the fact it just spent over a month on public display at Strasburg...
ES44AC posted:TrainMan1225 posted:Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Never mind the fact it just spent over a month on public display at Strasburg...
True, and then she's going to Spencer, N.C. after that for events in November and in Spring of next year. But after that, where will she be next? A volunteer at Strasburg was only able to tell me that after these events, the engine will be, in her words, "tucked away". Therefore, only time will tell.
RickO postedI believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
From what I understand, the whistle that the 611 used back in the 80s was not it's original. That supposedly disappeared while it was in Wasena Transportation Museum (Roanoke). In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
As for Mr Claytor's whistle, for everything he and his brother did for the steam program they deserve to keep it. It probably came off of another J.
Let's take a moment to appreciate what it takes to get 611 over the road to these different locations. First and foremost, a HUGE debt of gratitude should be given to Norfolk Southern. Since 611 was restored in 2015 it had always been the plan to keep 611 within two crew districts of Roanoke. Strasburg is SIX crew districts from Roanoke. It is only because of the generosity of NS that 611 can hit the road these days.
Also, it is nearly impossible to predict where and what the locomotive will be able to do on a year to year basis. It was strongly hinted at in 2017 that the tea leaves suggested that mainline trips would be out for 2018. We strongly encouraged people during our 611 podcast in 2017 to take advantage of the mainline trips while they could. Mainline steam railroading changes on a dime these days and with the upheaval of PSR coupled with sweeping changes at Amtrak, it's just hard to get locomotives out and about.
The events in Strasburg have been nearly two and a half years in the planning stage and it was only once all the I's dotted and T's crossed that it was announced. If something happens for 2020, I doubt we'll know until the Spring.
That all being said, the group and the VMT is always looking for opportunities to get the locomotive out on the road and I highly doubt they will stop looking for those opportunities.
Has anyone noticed the way too bright marker lights? In the Notch6 video they were just screaming at me while I was trying to focus on the rest of the engine. Just an observation.
Gilly@N&W posted:RickO postedI believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
From what I understand, the whistle that the 611 used back in the 80s was not it's original. That supposedly disappeared while it was in Wasena Transportation Museum (Roanoke). In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
As for Mr Claytor's whistle, for everything he and his brother did for the steam program they deserve to keep it. It probably came off of another J.
Thanks for the history lesson Gilly! So many rumors or legends sometimes its hard to know what the truth is.
Plain as day....the stripe is the biggest focal point on this engine. How they got it wrong is impressive.
Attachments
Images (1)
Do not preorder!
The Portland Rose posted:Do not preorder!
And then nothing gets made. I say pre-order and then if it's wrong return it or push to get it corrected. The problem with not pre-ordering is then it will just get cancelled and never see the light of day. Every manufacturer that produces hi end engines uses the BTO model whether they call it that or not.
This never would have happened in the Maddox days. Hope they paint my J3 Hudson right. Probably show up purple the way they’re going lately.
Anyone who has the 2005 611 TMCC J should know that it was the best one they ever made. They put the scale class lights on it and never used them again. Must have thrown them out with the paint sample cards.
BTW, recitation of the account regarding the 611 whistle.
(the book) Norfolk & Western Passenger Service 1946-1971 by William E. Warden
In reference to the last run of the Pocahontas on May 1, 1971 on page 13:
"Best of all, instead of the 759's somewhat shrill whistle, the engine had been outfitted with the mellow steamboat whistle of J-class 4-8-4 No. 611, then residing in the Roanoke Transportation Museum".
BTW, from what I can tell, Lionel did do a great job with the sound file on this latest engine. And the whistle steam is very nice.
Having just returned from York, and the pleasure of riding #611 last Friday afternoon with my wife opened up some opportunity. Having always telling her, "this is my last engine I have been looking for", I received full blown encouragement to purchase a Spirit of Roanoke.
Back at home, and all lathered up, which one? The Lionel Legacy or the Pre-Order MTH version. I know the MTH is not here yet to see if there are paint issues, but having just gone through the ALCO readdress issues with 2 sets (one not back yet after re-return), Challenger sound issue & the Polar Express blue color issue, I need a breather. I will Pre-Order the MTH. Not worth the hassle since the other hassles are still very fresh.
I am not done with Lionel. I just think they need a break from me while they get there color communication straightened out. I hope they do, because I am very fond of their products and sometimes the other does not have the model and road number. I know it is a blip. But for how long, I don't know.
Long live all of our favorite manufacturers!
MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie,
I normally don't weigh-in on things like this, but I'll put on my professional (HA!) cap for a moment and offer an opinion.
It dawned on me what had likely occurred a year or so at a local hobby shop, which had a nice wall of current Lionel product. Quite frankly, very few things looked right in my "mind's eye," something I've developed over time and bringing 1000+ products to market. I believe that the reason Lionel's entire product line has color-shifted over the past several years is not because they need Pantone books -- but rather because they're using them. The problem is that the vast majority of "railroad colors" don't have Pantone (PMS) equivalents. You can likely find something close with many lighter hues, but the darker, richer and/or dirtier colors won't have anything in the ballpark.
Back in the day (early 2000's), Lionel had their offshore manufacturing partners match the appropriate colors from chips generated from the paint used domestically. No Pantone. It was a big chore, but also a necessary one -- the paint had to match current and pre-existing product, regardless of where it was manufactured. Period.
Regardless, I believe that sometime over the past handful of years, a decision was made to switch from Lionel's decades-old paint codes and swatches, and convert to PMS. I can understand why. Pantone is recognized everywhere, and by simply calling out PMS 877c on a deco print, everyone worldwide is quickly on the same page. Conversely, "8366 Tuscan" -- Lionel's old color for that N&W stripe -- doesn't mean anything unless the proper chip is provided to match. (And ever wonder why all Lionel's steam locos had bright silver boiler fronts all of a sudden? My guess is because there's only one "metallic gray" -- 877c Silver -- in the standard Pantone book.)
So the color problems that keep occurring aren't about individual products -- they're a systemic issue that won't change until the Pantone books are closed, and the company makes an effort to stress product integrity over efficiency by diving into the company's old color library.
Of course, the above is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
TRW
What about 603, AFT 611, or 746?
Todd,
I'm not sure I agree with you completely on PMS. Pantone is a color standard for ink not paint. Of course they would have to match the PMS color or an in-between blend with paint. Why would they settle on something that they know is the wrong color when mixing the paint match?
That line of thinking just doesn't make any sense to me.
Wow, I just noticed that the wheel flanges are way oversized compared to the real thing. That’s it for me. I’m done.
Still waiting on seeing the AFT version
Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Say WHAT? Does anyone have a photo of that?
I know they mulled over maybe getting 611 for the Freedom train for a short while...
p51 posted:Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Say WHAT? Does anyone have a photo of that?
I know they mulled over maybe getting 611 for the Freedom train for a short while...
From the Lionel 2019V1 catalog - it was one of the 6 choices offered. This is a “what if” scheme but like you said, 611 was realistically considered for the role and there is drawings and documents from Ross Rowland showing the paint scheme for 611, albeit his shows it without the bullet nose more like the J1 warbaby.
http://www.lionel.com/products...acy-j-class-1931380/
Attachments
Images (1)
I called Lionel customer service today.
No change in status.
They said they are "in discussion" as to the stripe color on the new J.
I asked if they did offer a fix, will they work directly with customers, for those that had already received theirs.
They said yes.
Jeff2035 posted:I called Lionel customer service today.
No change in status.
They said they are "in discussion" as to the stripe color on the new J.
I asked if they did offer a fix, will they work directly with customers, for those that had already received theirs.
They said yes.
If Lionel did "fix the stripe color", to what color would they "fix it"?
Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
Not just you. A lesson in marketing school coming up.
Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
They would go back overseas. They would not paint them in NC 
.
MartyE posted:Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
They would go back overseas. They would not paint them in NC
Ah, right. Back to the Chinese factory that painted it incorrectly in the first place?
Gilly@N&W posted:In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
Perhaps she was wearing 611's whistle, but she is not still wearing it today. First of all, the 759 continued running trips until 1973, and if you listen to recordings that have taken place anytime after that run, you will not hear anything that resembles a Hancock 3 Chime. This record does have some recordings of that run as well, but the overwhelming majority of the recordings feature the standard Nathan 6 Chime.
Second of all, take a look at this video by one of my good friends. If you look at the shot from the bridge of Baldwin no. 26 pulling the 759 on to the turntable (about a minute and a half in), you will see she still has a whistle attached, but visually speaking, it does not resemble a Hancock.
This is not meant to steer the topic away from the original subject. Only providing information. Hope this helps!
Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Hot Water posted:Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Lionel doesn't have the tooling to do those crosshead guides.
Peter Araujo posted:Hot Water posted:Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Lionel doesn't have the tooling to do those crosshead guides.
Lionel did the correct crosshead guides on the UP FEF-3 4-8-4 models, and the SP GS-4 4-8-4 models, and the UP 4-6-6-4 models, and the UP 4-8-8-4 models, and the NYC Niagara 4-8-4 models, ALL of which have the Laird multiple bearing crosshead guides, which should be on the N&W low number J class models.
Somehow, I don't see the problem with getting high-end models correct.
This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
Peter Araujo posted:This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
BS, we're just talking about the back of the cylinders!
Big Jim posted:Peter Araujo posted:This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
BS, we're just talking about the back of the cylinders!
Apparently he didn't read and comprehend what I posted, above, about all those other Lionel steam locomotive models with the Laird Multiple Bearing crosshead guides.
Mine's coming tomorrow from Charles Ro, along with the Vision Line Auxiliary Tender.
Just took mine out of the box, and found a loose screw in there. Overall condition is excellent. The top half of the nose cone is also loose. So I'm assuming that was where the screw came from. Not sure if I should exchange it or take it apart and find the source of that screw. I also didn't run it yet just in case I decide to send it back.
She runs great! I just gave mine a test run, and decided to keep it and find a way to put the screw back. I also have the UP Water Tender in the background.
Attachments
Images (1)
Videos (1)
Peter Araujo posted:She runs great! I just gave mine a test run, and decided to keep it and find a way to put the screw back. I also have the UP Water Tender in the background.
The whistle smoke is great. May be the best so far.
I received #603 today. Here are some photos.
Attachments
Images (5)
PaperTRW posted:MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie,
I normally don't weigh-in on things like this, but I'll put on my professional (HA!) cap for a moment and offer an opinion.
It dawned on me what had likely occurred a year or so at a local hobby shop, which had a nice wall of current Lionel product. Quite frankly, very few things looked right in my "mind's eye," something I've developed over time and bringing 1000+ products to market. I believe that the reason Lionel's entire product line has color-shifted over the past several years is not because they need Pantone books -- but rather because they're using them. The problem is that the vast majority of "railroad colors" don't have Pantone (PMS) equivalents. You can likely find something close with many lighter hues, but the darker, richer and/or dirtier colors won't have anything in the ballpark.
Back in the day (early 2000's), Lionel had their offshore manufacturing partners match the appropriate colors from chips generated from the paint used domestically. No Pantone. It was a big chore, but also a necessary one -- the paint had to match current and pre-existing product, regardless of where it was manufactured. Period.
Regardless, I believe that sometime over the past handful of years, a decision was made to switch from Lionel's decades-old paint codes and swatches, and convert to PMS. I can understand why. Pantone is recognized everywhere, and by simply calling out PMS 877c on a deco print, everyone worldwide is quickly on the same page. Conversely, "8366 Tuscan" -- Lionel's old color for that N&W stripe -- doesn't mean anything unless the proper chip is provided to match. (And ever wonder why all Lionel's steam locos had bright silver boiler fronts all of a sudden? My guess is because there's only one "metallic gray" -- 877c Silver -- in the standard Pantone book.)
So the color problems that keep occurring aren't about individual products -- they're a systemic issue that won't change until the Pantone books are closed, and the company makes an effort to stress product integrity over efficiency by diving into the company's old color library.
Of course, the above is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
TRW
MichRR714 posted:Todd,
I'm not sure I agree with you completely on PMS. Pantone is a color standard for ink not paint. Of course they would have to match the PMS color or an in-between blend with paint. Why would they settle on something that they know is the wrong color when mixing the paint match?
That line of thinking just doesn't make any sense to me.
Charlie,
Sorry for the delay in following-up. I didn't catch your response until now.
Check out this Lionel artwork that Charlienassau posted earlier this year for his Long Island C420's:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...u%20Hobbies%20Ex.pdf
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...u%20Hobbies%20Ex.pdf
The color call-outs on those are basically Pantone across the board. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the orange and gray LI color scheme did NOT start out as PMS, so somewhere along the line, someone took the Lionel historical paint swatches and converted them to a "close enough" Pantone. As I noted in my first note, the problem is that historical "railroad" colors don't really have equivalents in the world of "clean, shiny and happy" PMS colors (I'm channeling a graphic designer that I once worked with).
Using Pantone in the business world for all sorts of color matching is nothing new. Some corporate Style Guides go as far to include an actual paint chip and then a separate PMS code for printing. If I remember right, UPS is one of those -- their PMS brown color is quite a bit different from the color used to paint their delivery vehicles (Package Cars in UPS parlance), but they properly understand the differences between paint (and the associated tints) with the printed page, a lot of which is CMYK.
As I write this, I'm more convinced than ever that all the color drifting and downright bad color selection over the past few years from Lionel is a result of them switching to an entirely Pantone-based color reference. The issue likely has nothing to do with poor execution on behalf of their offshore manufacturing partners.
TRW
If someone who has both the TMCC J and the 2019 version please post a side by side. My last 2 preordered locomotives were the SF PA ABA and the "Spirit of Roanoke" 611 J.
I’d also like to see a side by side comparison. I’d like to see a side by side of the 2019 J and the Lionel 18” aluminum passenger cars. I pre-ordered “ Spirit of Roanoke “ hoping to use it to pull my passenger cars.
Anyone have the Freedom Train and/or 746 ones yet?
I received my 600 and the paint is flawless.
Yes, the stripe color is as everyone says...probably too much red.
I have the January 1983 copy of Trains magazine.
It features the 611, as the cover, in honor of the 611 returning to steam.
On page 45 there is a half page color side view photo of the 611 and when I place the photo next to my new J, I think the new J reddish stripe looks a lot like the 1983 color photo.
I will get my 600 on the track tomorrow.
If it runs fine, then it is a keeper.
A picture of the J without the older properly colored passenger cars is useless. We all know what they look like in the catalog or on the iPad without color vetting. Does anyone have the cars with the new J?
Received mine today.....it is one beautiful train.......but more importantly it worked flawlessly right out of the box. Heres a quick pic and video of it in action. Sorry not to be able to show it in detail, no time tonight, but I am sure other owners will do it justice......
-Pete
Attachments
Images (1)
Videos (1)
N&WGuy posted:Not mine, but a guy named Sean Mastrocovi posted a picture of his new American Freedom Train version on the O Gauge Tips and Tricks group on Facebook!
Well atleast they can't screw up fantasy schemes.
Anyone have pictures or video of the 746 J? I hear it was supposed to have a secondary air whistle in it like the postwar version...
Still looking for a side by side of the new 611 with the 18” aluminum passenger cars. Anyone?
Tonight I unboxed the new 746 version of the J, And I think this one is spot on!
I posed it for photos alongside my postwar 746, and my Lionel 606 (#6-38026 from 2002) and a Sunset Models K2a - this is 3 of my 19 J class engines shown here.
Also here’s a video of the air whistle - something some folks may not have realized is this one has a whistle meant to simulate a postwar style air whistle. I am in conventional mode here so I did not test out the quilable whistle here but it’s got it.
Theres a lot of subtle details here that are easy to miss - no builders plate, blacked out marker lights, blacked out handrail on the nose, blacked out headlight ring, curved tender deck, no class plate on the steam chest - many things faithful to the 1958 version of the 746.
I’m really very happy with this engine!!!
Attachments
Images (8)
Videos (1)
Cool whistle! How about crew talk for the 746? Specific for the engine?
MJ
Now that looks pretty good to match the PW version and the whistle is an awesome touch with the trailing whirl sound. Love to see more of this one running! Have fun!
N&W 1218 posted:Cool whistle! How about crew talk for the 746? Specific for the engine?
Is that prototypical? I don't hear any high frequencies...maybe just at the end of the quilling.
I like the black out paint.
Side note, I am glad Ross Rowland didn't use the real 611 for the American Freedom Train. Who knows where 611 would be today or what shape it would be in! We all know what happened to AFT #1 in the Hagerstown roundhouse fire. And where she sits now at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore rusting away! 
J 611 posted:Side note, I am glad Ross Rowland didn't use the real 611 for the American Freedom Train. Who knows where 611 would be today or what shape it would be in! We all know what happened to AFT #1 in the Hagerstown roundhouse fire. And where she sits now at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore rusting away!
As additional information, the "original plan" for powering the American Freedom Train, was for doubleheaded NKP Berkshires, i.e. Mr. Rowland's NKP 759 and the 763 from Roanoke, Va.. The 763 was even moved from Roanoke to a location (can't remember where) for restoration, with 759.
Subsequently, clearer heads prevailed, since the midwestern and western railroads would have no part of doubleheaded coal burning steam locomotives on their respective railroads. Thus, the oil burning SP GS-4 #4449 was selected for motive power, throughout the west and midwest.
Lionel knocked it out of the park on the 746 version! The AFT doesn't look half bad either.
Long Live postwar Lionels. This old gal is waiting her turn back on the layout:
Attachments
Images (1)
M J Breen posted:Tonight I unboxed the new 746 version of the J, And I think this one is spot on!
I posed it for photos alongside my postwar 746, and my Lionel 606 (#6-38026 from 2002) and a Sunset Models K2a - this is 3 of my 19 J class engines shown here.
Also here’s a video of the air whistle - something some folks may not have realized is this one has a whistle meant to simulate a postwar style air whistle. I am in conventional mode here so I did not test out the quilable whistle here but it’s got it.
Theres a lot of subtle details here that are easy to miss - no builders plate, blacked out marker lights, blacked out handrail on the nose, blacked out headlight ring, curved tender deck, no class plate on the steam chest - many things faithful to the 1958 version of the 746.
I’m really very happy with this engine!!!
That whistle is pretty neat. I almost thought it had an actual air whistle in the tender for a second.
BFI66 posted:Received mine today.....it is one beautiful train.......but more importantly it worked flawlessly right out of the box. Heres a quick pic and video of it in action. Sorry not to be able to show it in detail, no time tonight, but I am sure other owners will do it justice......
-Pete
The locomotive - ho hum, yet another J re-re-re-release ... wait ... it has a smoking whistle! Yes, this is a keeper! I have the Lionel Pocahontas sets from a few years back with the aluminum cars. Love them but they were made during that period when Lionel discontinued smoking whistle on straight Legacy - I think the smoke effect definitely adds to the fun factor. Enjoy!
By the way, what is that tall circular stone structure on your layout - the one your new locomotive passes almost immediately after moving out? I'm a sucker for brick and stone structures and wow, that thing looks awesome!
Got mine yesterday, I’m not happy with the color of the stripe.
Doug which version did you get? I’m being very patient but things have quieted down on this subject. I’d really like to know what if anything will be done? Can we have a Lionel representative chime in on the subject?
romiller49 posted:Wow, I just noticed that the wheel flanges are way oversized compared to the real thing. That’s it for me. I’m done.
One thing I hadn't noticed until looking through a book recently that had photos of scale models from Lionel, Atlas, and MTH Premier - the handrails and piping detail on Lionel scale products are never scale. It became so obvious when looking at photos of diesel engines in the book I was reading. The Atlas and MTH locomotives looked "right." The Lionels generally did too - until you looked at them in comparison to the others, at which point these details made them look sort of toyish. Even the photos in the post above that show the front of the real locomotive and the model illustrate this. The handrails (wires) are like 2x thicker than the real thing. The mind's eye may not pick up on the specific details, but still knows when something looks "off."
No comment on the paint color. For me, I don't trust old photos or film for accurate color. Old film color - even in documentaries - is more like a painting than real. Put a new color photo next to any color photo from the 1950s and it's so obvious from the colors which is new and old. I'm no expert on any of this, so feel free to laugh at my non-educated opinion on color. 
M J Breen posted:Tonight I unboxed the new 746 version of the J, And I think this one is spot on!
I posed it for photos alongside my postwar 746, and my Lionel 606 (#6-38026 from 2002) and a Sunset Models K2a - this is 3 of my 19 J class engines shown here.
Also here’s a video of the air whistle - something some folks may not have realized is this one has a whistle meant to simulate a postwar style air whistle. I am in conventional mode here so I did not test out the quilable whistle here but it’s got it.
Theres a lot of subtle details here that are easy to miss - no builders plate, blacked out marker lights, blacked out handrail on the nose, blacked out headlight ring, curved tender deck, no class plate on the steam chest - many things faithful to the 1958 version of the 746.
I’m really very happy with this engine!!!
I preordered my "Spirit of Roanoke" assuming the color would be similar to the previous versions as seen in M J Breen's previously posted pics above. But, it is almost a red-orange as seen in Legacy Station's run vid. Mine is still sealed in carton for now. I'd like to hear what Lionel has to say also.
I bought the Spirit of Roanoke after seeing the J at Strasburg last month. I love it except that freaking stripe is driving me up a wall. Everything else is great but that stripe is all I can look at. Is there any chance Lionel would fix this? I can’t believe they would get it so wrong, it’s not like they’ve never made a J before. I’m almost tempted to swap this engine out for the Pocahontas set. I read somewhere the stripe didn’t line up but at least the color was correct. Plus I like the green marker lights better than the white ones (even if that’s accurate). Besides the whistle steam is there any benefits to the new legacy J as opposed to the old?
DJ Haney posted:I bought the Spirit of Roanoke after seeing the J at Strasburg last month. I love it except that freaking stripe is driving me up a wall. Everything else is great but that stripe is all I can look at. Is there any chance Lionel would fix this? I can’t believe they would get it so wrong, it’s not like they’ve never made a J before. I’m almost tempted to swap this engine out for the Pocahontas set. I read somewhere the stripe didn’t line up but at least the color was correct. Plus I like the green marker lights better than the white ones (even if that’s accurate). Besides the whistle steam is there any benefits to the new legacy J as opposed to the old?
I as well as others spoke with Lionel at York about the stripe. It has been discussed on this thread more than once. They are looking into seeing what they can do.
Good luck on swapping the shell. I suspect the smoke unit for the whistle maybe mounted to the shell so a swap may not be possible. I could be incorrect about that but at minimal you would have to make a hole for the whistle steam.
Lionel knows the stripe is an issue, they also said they will look into it. All we can do is keep asking by contacting them directly and politely express your concerns. Posting here alone will do little. I am waiting to get mine to evaluate it personally but with what I have seen so far it is not matching anything N&W I have from both Lionel or any other manufacturer. If Lionel won't do anything, I will be asking for a refund but from previous discussions with Ryan at York, I feel pretty good that they'll be working on a solution.
I am not gonna swap the shells, I think that would be really hard to do especially with the smoke unit like you said. I was just going to get the older engine instead. The only difference I see between to two besides the stripe color is the whistle steam and the colored marker lights. I want the more prototypical looking engine so I feel like I would like that one better than the newer one. I didn’t know if there was anything else different between the two pieces.
I actually sent Lionel an email about it and I’m seeing if I get a response. I have little success getting through to them though. I hope Ryan does come through with a solution, though I don’t know what that would be. As I said it’s a great engine but that freaking stripe is all I can look at. And when I pull it with my Norfolk and Western and Strasburg cars I just roll my eyes. I guess it’s the problem with being a “rivet counter” but if I’m paying over a thousand dollars on an engine I want it to be done right. Has anyone here gotten through to Lionel about it?
DJ Haney posted:I guess it’s the problem with being a “rivet counter” but if I’m paying over a thousand dollars on an engine I want it to be done right. Has anyone here gotten through to Lionel about it?
It's not a rivet counter thing. I know beside talking to Ryan at York others have gotten through and let Lionel know their thoughts.
I am hoping the dealers won't let us down here either. Ultimately they hold a lot of influence here. If they say nothing, that's just as bad.
So, what's with the complaining about the stripe. Looks good to me. At least there is one!!
BTW, MJ, that is some super layout you got there big guy!! And you have 19 of those monsters!!??
Wow and Super Wow!!
Rufus posted:So, what's with the complaining about the stripe. Looks good to me. At least there is one!!
The criticism of the stripe is it doesn't match the real engine, at least as far as we can tell from pictures (no one has held it up right next to the engine), or any previously issued cars by Lionel or other manufacturers.
Here is a photo someone posted of the new and old 611, and attached is a picture of the 611 last month tab strasburg. As you can tell it’s dramatically different. Has anyone gotten a response from Lionel or are they ignoring it? My fear is they’ll come back with an answer like that Commodore Vanderbilt engine they made a bunch of years back that was clearly the wrong color but they insisted it was right.
Attachments
Images (2)
Actually it’s funny to me, even though the correct lettering is Gold I would be fine if they used the yellow. The real one almost looked like they used Yellow anyway. But that red is totally an eye sore.
Patience. They know of the issue. Last I heard they were still discussing it internally. What we don't want is to get this thread to the point where it is locked. The thread has some good discussion so we should keep the focus on that.
N&W 1218 posted:Doug which version did you get? I’m being very patient but things have quieted down on this subject. I’d really like to know what if anything will be done? Can we have a Lionel representative chime in on the subject?
I have the Spirit of Roanoke version. I assume all the new ones are the same color.
M J Breen posted:..., curved tender deck,
Sounds like they got the tender right. I was wondering if they were all flat topped tenders. Was this carried over to the 600 and 603?
That's a spiffy little tooter you've got there..
I sent a letter to TalktoUs this am. As Marty said every little bit helps.
I sent an email last night to them as well. Personally I feel like what happened was they picked the bright red and yellow colors to be on the postwar version and the others were suppose to be the maroon color. But they just made them all that way. That makes the most sense to me. We’ll see what happens. Wish I could message Ryan Kunkle directly but I don’t have his contact info. Let’s see what happens! I literally bought this engine after shooting like 6 hours worth of material of the J at Strasburg. I thought it would be cool to have the model version, I just can’t get over the color!
I have contacted both dealers that I purchased My 600 and 611 Version from (Two different dealers). Both know that the color is not going to cut it and I have canceled the passenger cars as they will probably not match these new engines anyway as shown in my pictures in the attached post.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...of-roanoke-by-lionel
One dealer has contacted Lionel but I am not sure if he has heard anything. The other is willing to take the engine and few cars that I have already received back at no restocking fee. All items are in the boxes ready to go back to the dealers. The 600 has never been opened. I am willing to wait and listen but my patience is getting short. We may have no choice but to sent it back as the 2005 version is still superior- shame. One dealer laughed when I mention the Lionel's Quality stickers.
I love Lionel stuff and I have way more than I will ever need. But now I have Alco Pa's , (1) Sd40-2, Missouri Pacific 4-8-2 with the miss spelled tender and now (2) N&W J's that all either have to go to Lionel or back to a dealer. It took a year to get new shells for the T&P F units and they are only OK and they didn't even bother to paint the diaphrams on the end of the units. In my opinion the winner is Scott Mann.
I received an email from Lionel this morning asking me for photographic evidence that the color was off. Hopefully we can get some momentum here! I feel like if they aren’t gonna fix it I’ll send mine back to. It’s a shame.
Does anyone here have the Pocahontas J? If so how does it compare to the new one? I know it doesn’t have the whistle steam but is it that much different?
DJ Haney posted:I received an email from Lionel this morning asking me for photographic evidence that the color was off.
Now THAT is interesting. Just how does the customer, any customer, provide "photographic evidence" to convince the folks at Lionel that the "color is off"? What about differences in lighting between the real #611 and any of the models?
Hopefully we can get some momentum here! I feel like if they aren’t gonna fix it I’ll send mine back to. It’s a shame.
Does anyone here have the Pocahontas J? If so how does it compare to the new one? I know it doesn’t have the whistle steam but is it that much different?
DJ Haney posted:Does anyone here have the Pocahontas J? If so how does it compare to the new one? I know it doesn’t have the whistle steam but is it that much different? Yep
In the other thread I posted pictures of the 2005 606 J (right) circa 2005 and the 611 Pocahontas Legacy J (left) from 2015.
Attachments
Gilly@N&W posted:M J Breen posted:..., curved tender deck,
Sounds like they got the tender right. I was wondering if they were all flat topped tenders. Was this carried over to the 600 and 603?
Gilly, I wondered the same thing. Photos posted on page 2 of this thread by NVISICH show the Lionel 603 with a flat tender deck. That they used the curved tender deck on the 746 and not on the 603 was an interesting decision. The curved tender deck would be correct for the 603. The folks at Lionel clearly had the correct tender on hand for the 746 and 603 but I'm guessing they just didn't know any better to use it for the 603.
Is there an upgrade available to update the earlier Lionel TMCC 2006 611 N&W J (Railsounds 5.0) making it comparable to the Legacy versions? I own the 2006 version, and love it, but I really like the speed control, 4 chuffs/revolution & quillable whistle of the Legacy engines.
ironman1 posted:Is there an upgrade available to update the earlier Lionel TMCC 2006 611 N&W J (Railsounds 5.0) making it comparable to the Legacy versions? I own the 2006 version, and love it, but I really like the speed control, 4 chuffs/revolution & quillable whistle of the Legacy engines.
Sadly Lionel has not released upgrade kits, though you may be able to purchase all the required items from them and install it yourself.
The ERR kits from Sunset/GGD are pretty good, think they lack the whistle feature you desire though. GunRunnerJohn can set you up with all the other parts if you go the ERR route.
What does the EER kit actually offer?
ironman1 posted:What does the EER kit actually offer?
100 speed steps and some sound choices.
Personally I wouldn't worry about the speed control and just add the GRJ Super Chuffer and Chuff Generator boards. Made a world of difference in mine. 4 chuffs per revoluntion and smoke actually puffs with the chuff.
Just received another email after I sent them issues of their paint problem. The guy said he sent my images over to their director of customer services to address. Basically I feel like it went into the garbage can but we’ll see what happened...
Hahaha just found this image online of what 611 should look like.... yeah spot on Lionel!
Attachments
Images (1)
DJ Haney posted:Just received another email after I sent them issues of their paint problem. The guy said he sent my images over to their director of customer services to address. Basically I feel like it went into the garbage can but we’ll see what happened...
I wouldn't worry about it. They have more than enough information on this.
There is a really easy and effective temporary fix to all this anguish.
I use Callie Graphics for vinyl stick-ons. I promise - she can do an exact match for you with the colors you choose. Best to provide a full size accurate photo or drawing, but lacking that, she can work to precise dimensions.
The vinyl comes pre-cut, with instructions on how to install perfectly. It won't go around rivets, and may need some careful surgery near the cab, but once done I promise you won't be able to tell it is a "stick-on". Plus, with a hair dryer, you can take it off when you decide you want orange instead of Tuscan.
DJ Haney posted:Actually it’s funny to me, even though the correct lettering is Gold I would be fine if they used the yellow. The real one almost looked like they used Yellow anyway. But that red is totally an eye sore.
The stripes and lettering should be "Dulux Gold" (a shade of yellow) and tenders for 600 - 610 should be roll-top, while 611 - 613 should be flat top.
bob2 posted:There is a really easy and effective temporary fix to all this anguish.
I use Callie Graphics for vinyl stick-ons. I promise - she can do an exact match for you with the colors you choose. Best to provide a full size accurate photo or drawing, but lacking that, she can work to precise dimensions.
The vinyl comes pre-cut, with instructions on how to install perfectly. It won't go around rivets, and may need some careful surgery near the cab, but once done I promise you won't be able to tell it is a "stick-on". Plus, with a hair dryer, you can take it off when you decide you want orange instead of Tuscan.
Why should I have to do that?
Hi Marty,
I watched your first video years ago & was sold on the super chuffer. At that time I had John Will install the super chuffer & upgrade to 4 chuffs. When first tested it worked perfectly, I loved it. Before I installed Dale's signal booster it would stop at various spots on my layout so back on the shelf it went. A year later I figured I give it another shot, now with Legacy but no more smoke. I thought maybe I added too much fluid. Contacted John for suggestions, tried everything except take the shell off. Wasn't up to it, back on the shelf.
With Dale's booster now installed, it runs fine but of course no more smoke. Emailed John a few days back, I checked that the smoke switch was on but will probably take the shell off at some point to diagnose, as he suggested.
Since its the engine is TMCC & I only use Legacy, is it possible with the Cab 2 remote I disabled the smoke unit? What is the command to increase the smoke. I remember initially John mentioned that command could be a little finicky.
Thanks,
Joe
Marty - of course you do not have to do that. I was just suggesting a cheap and effective way of eliminating anguish. You are free to wait until Lionel makes it right.
I went looking for a photo of my Williams "J" - it has the correct shade of Tuscan on the stripe, and is a really good model for its modest cost. Unfortunately I have no photos - maybe I shall fix that this afternoon.
Meantime, for anybody remotely interested, here is some of Callie's work in vinyl. The SP switcher has the words SOUTHERN PACIFIC in vinyl, and they look great - bright orange! The cab numbers are Microscale - kinda dull looking. Stripes were masked and sprayed back before I got reasonably good at painting.
The bear is a traditional adornment for antique Cub aircraft. She made mine bigger than the original. It has been on the aircraft for over two years, flown hundreds of hours, and no discoloring or cracking. Same vinyl.
Later on the photos - my computer says "queued"
DaveSlie posted:
AFT version ....
Just my opinion but, even though that painting & styling on the N&W J is fantasy, Lionel really blew it. It Was named the "American Freedom Train", and each of the three steam locomotives that powered the train (Reading T-1 #1, SP GS-4 #4449, and T&P 2-10-4 #610) were all lettered for the "American Freedom Train. One would thing that Lionel could have at least got the correct lettering on the tender.
Hot Water posted:DaveSlie posted:
Just my opinion but, even though that painting & styling on the N&W J is fantasy, Lionel really blew it. It Was named the "American Freedom Train", and each of the three steam locomotives that powered the train (Reading T-1 #1, SP GS-4 #4449, and T&P 2-10-4 #610) were all lettered for the "American Freedom Train. One would thing that Lionel could have at least got the correct lettering on the tender.
Follow this link to see where Lionel got their design from....
DaveSlie posted:Hot Water posted:DaveSlie posted:
Just my opinion but, even though that painting & styling on the N&W J is fantasy, Lionel really blew it. It Was named the "American Freedom Train", and each of the three steam locomotives that powered the train (Reading T-1 #1, SP GS-4 #4449, and T&P 2-10-4 #610) were all lettered for the "American Freedom Train. One would thing that Lionel could have at least got the correct lettering on the tender.
Follow this link to see where Lionel got their design from....
I guess that's as right as it could be based on the link. I guess I could argue either way but at least there is some background for the design they used.
The only saving grace there though is that’s a fantasy paint scheme so technically there’s no right or wrong. The red stripe those is a totally different story.
bob2 posted:There is a really easy and effective temporary fix to all this anguish.
It won't go around rivets, and may need some careful surgery near the cab, but once done I promise you won't be able to tell it is a "stick-on". Plus, with a hair dryer, you can take it off when you decide you want orange instead of Tuscan.
Then it is useless!
Sounds like more "anguish" to me!
Dave, that is a beautiful Freedom Train. Thanks for the video - that brought it to life!
DaveSlie posted:Hot Water posted:DaveSlie posted:
Just my opinion but, even though that painting & styling on the N&W J is fantasy, Lionel really blew it. It Was named the "American Freedom Train", and each of the three steam locomotives that powered the train (Reading T-1 #1, SP GS-4 #4449, and T&P 2-10-4 #610) were all lettered for the "American Freedom Train. One would thing that Lionel could have at least got the correct lettering on the tender.
Follow this link to see where Lionel got their design from....
No wonder! That is NOT the original "American Freedom Train" website, it is long gone. The site you reference is a site put together by a VERY well meaning historian/railfan, thus tends to take some liberties. I was directly involved with the American Freedom Train and its management, through my employer, Electro-Motive Division of General Motors Corporation.
Hot Water posted:DaveSlie posted:Hot Water posted:DaveSlie posted:
Just my opinion but, even though that painting & styling on the N&W J is fantasy, Lionel really blew it. It Was named the "American Freedom Train", and each of the three steam locomotives that powered the train (Reading T-1 #1, SP GS-4 #4449, and T&P 2-10-4 #610) were all lettered for the "American Freedom Train. One would thing that Lionel could have at least got the correct lettering on the tender.
Follow this link to see where Lionel got their design from....
No wonder! That is NOT the original "American Freedom Train" website, it is long gone. The site you reference is a site put together by a VERY well meaning historian/railfan, thus tends to take some liberties. I was directly involved with the American Freedom Train and its management, through my employer, Electro-Motive Division of General Motors Corporation.
I'd love to see the original concept. Do you have any concept art?
Just got mine today, opened it up and found these two screws and two little cylindrical objects (for the screws?). Anyone know where these go? Could they be for a Kadee coupler?
Also the nose is loose to where it wobbles on the top but feels like its held on from the bottom inside so it doesn't fall off. Would this be to take off the shell and tighten a screw? Or would the screws from the above question are the ones to hold the nose and they just worked themselves loose during shipping?
Attachments
Images (1)
I am closing this thread mainly because it has become pretty much a handful of folks posting every few minutes or hours with the same comments over and over.... Statements that imply actions or non-action that are not substantiated. Come Mr. Haney....I can tell you with authority that Lionel is still talking to the factory about having replacements made and trying to pick a red. I can assure you that they didn't color match to some stupid sticker at a museum. GHEEEZZZ. Congrats, the thread is closed!
