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@dorfj2 posted:

Thank you everyone for the feedback - engine looks and sounds great - quick question - on the 5011 Santa Fe in some pics the black appears to be a gloss and in others a much less glossy satin / flat finish ??? - just curious - Thx

The logical comparison is to use the MTH restoration Big Boy. As you can see from the photos the 5011 is more of a satin finish next to the glossy Big Boy.

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BP, these are SF 5011 Class 2-10-4s, whole different beast. Lionel has made a very viable PRR J1a 2-10-4 and a slightly less accurate C&O T1 based off their J1a.

For PRR modelers, many of the SF 5011 Class engines can be justified on a PRR layout since they were rented mules in 1956:

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/prr%20santa%20fe.htm

http://www.columbusrailroads.c...%20Fe%20Class%205011

Last edited by Norm Charbonneau

Has anyone checked to see if this model has a back driveable geartrain? I.E. if you roll the model do the drivers move? The MTH version had a chassis with a non-back driveable gearbox. I'm curious if Lionel left the gearbox alone or added their own back driveable gearbox design to the chassis. The MTH designed gearbox was bullet proof, so I'm hoping Lionel kept it.

@Lou1985 posted:

I'm curious if Lionel left the gearbox alone or added their own back driveable gearbox design to the chassis. The MTH designed gearbox was bullet proof, so I'm hoping Lionel kept it.

Fwiw, In the early days of Legacy. Lionels back drivable gearbox was still achieved via the traditional worm and axle gear setup.

They started using those intermediate gears around 2011.

Maybe the gear reduction helps the Canon perform like a Pittman😉

There have been a few locos in between that have back driveability and no extra gears. I believe the Legacy ESE hudsons and VL Niagra to name a couple.

Hopefully folks will get lucky with these 2 -10-4's

Last edited by RickO
@RickO posted:

Fwiw, In the early days of Legacy. Lionels back drivable gearbox was still achieved via the traditional worm and axle gear setup.

They started using those intermediate gears around 2011.

Maybe the gear reduction helps the Canon perform like a Pittman😉

There have been a few locos in between that have back driveability and no extra gears. I believe the Legacy ESE hudsons and VL Niagra to name a couple.

Hopefully folks will get lucky with these 2 -10-4's

It’ll really be interesting to see what they’ve done to this chassis, as I’m sure it'll more than likely become SOP on former MTH large locomotives, …..

Pat

BP, these are SF 5011 Class 2-10-4s, whole different beast. Lionel has made a very viable PRR J1a 2-10-4 and a slightly less accurate C&O T1 based off their J1a.

For PRR modelers, many of the SF 5011 Class engines can be justified on a PRR layout since they were rented mules in 1956:

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/prr%20santa%20fe.htm

http://www.columbusrailroads.c...%20Fe%20Class%205011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFWrP0bZLZs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5zOCNNw6t0

Last edited by Berkshire President
@RickO posted:

Fwiw, In the early days of Legacy. Lionels back drivable gearbox was still achieved via the traditional worm and axle gear setup.

They started using those intermediate gears around 2011.

Maybe the gear reduction helps the Canon perform like a Pittman😉

There have been a few locos in between that have back driveability and no extra gears. I believe the Legacy ESE hudsons and VL Niagra to name a couple.

Hopefully folks will get lucky with these 2 -10-4's

If Lionel just changed the pitch on the worm wheel and worm shaft to make the gearbox back driveable that would be fine. The gearbox would still be rugged. It's those intermediate gears that worry me slightly.

Gearbox or not I'm pretty sure my MTH version I turned into a 5001 class with a rare earth magnet, 6mm ball bearing Pittman motor will drastically out pull the current Lionel version 😉.

Just got my Legacy ATSF 2-10-4 #5011. Pretty pleased with the model, but I was wondering if anyone also had this observation:

To the rear above the pistons and at the top of the start of the running gear, there appears to be a significant gap between the boiler and the wheels through which you could see straight through. I did my best to make out the details on photos of the prototype online, and there does not appear to be such a large gap. Instead, the boiler appears to slope downward towards the wheels as it does on most steam engines.

The strangest part is that on the model above the rear drivers and start of the firebox, the boiler visibly slopes downward as it should. For some reason, Lionel did not also do that for the front of the boiler where specified above, and instead left a noticeable gap where the boiler would normally slope down.

Has anyone also made this observation? Would anyone have an idea as to why the model was constructed this way? It does not affect its functionality, nor does it take away from all the other great features - I'm mostly just curious about the gap.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Tony E.

"The youthful never outgrow playtime - their toys just get more expensive" 😂

Last edited by Tony E.
@Tony E. posted:

Just got my Legacy ATSF 2-10-4 #5011. Pretty pleased with the model, but I was wondering if anyone also had this observation:

To the rear above the pistons and at the top of the start of the running gear, there appears to be a significant gap between the boiler and the wheels through which you could see straight through. I did my best to make out the details on photos of the prototype online, and there does not appear to be such a large gap. Instead, the boiler appears to slope downward towards the wheels as it does on most steam engines.

The strangest part is that on the model above the rear drivers and start of the firebox, the boiler visibly slopes downward as it should. For some reason, Lionel did not also do that for the front of the boiler where specified above, and instead left a noticeable gap where the boiler would normally slope down.

Has anyone also made this observation? Would anyone have an idea as to why the model was constructed this way? It does not affect its functionality, nor does it take away from all the other great features - I'm mostly just curious about the gap.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Tony E.

"The youthful never outgrow playtime - their toys just get more expensive" 😂

Prepare for a long winded response.

So the real Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 was built at the same time as the 2900 class 4-8-4. Both were built by Baldwin in the 1943-1944 time frame. They were both visually almost identical. The shared the same tenders, with the visual differences (besides wheel arrangements) being the 5011 class being 2 feet longer and having a wider boiler.

The Lionel model is tooling purchased from MTH. The tooling started life around 1995 in the form of the Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4. In the early 2000s MTH tooled up a 2-10-4 chassis to sit under the 2900 class 4-8-4 chassis (since the two locomotives are so visually identical) creating the 5011 class on the cheap, since it only required new tooling for the chassis. Since the MTH (now Lionel) model uses the 2900 class boiler, the 2-10-4 5011 class chassis under it can look a bit odd at different angles vs. the real life locomotive. The boiler is narrower, so it doesn't extend down as close to the driver's as it should. The 2-10-4 is also about 1/2" shorter then it should be as well.

The only fully accurate Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 in 3 rail was made by 3rd Rail in the early 2000s. It is mechanically inferior to the MTH (now Lionel) model and does not run nearly as well. That being said I own three MTH Santa Fe 2-10-4s and two MTH Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4s. The visual inaccuracies of the MTH (now Lionel) 5011 class don't bother me enough to cause grief. 

@Lou1985 posted:

Prepare for a long winded response.

So the real Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 was built at the same time as the 2900 class 4-8-4. Both were built by Baldwin in the 1943-1944 time frame. They were both visually almost identical. The shared the same tenders, with the visual differences (besides wheel arrangements) being the 5011 class being 2 feet longer and having a wider boiler.

The Lionel model is tooling purchased from MTH. The tooling started life around 1995 in the form of the Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4. In the early 2000s MTH tooled up a 2-10-4 chassis to sit under the 2900 class 4-8-4 chassis (since the two locomotives are so visually identical) creating the 5011 class on the cheap, since it only required new tooling for the chassis. Since the MTH (now Lionel) model uses the 2900 class boiler, the 2-10-4 5011 class chassis under it can look a bit odd at different angles vs. the real life locomotive. The boiler is narrower, so it doesn't extend down as close to the driver's as it should. The 2-10-4 is also about 1/2" shorter then it should be as well.

The only fully accurate Santa Fe 5011 class 2-10-4 in 3 rail was made by 3rd Rail in the early 2000s. It is mechanically inferior to the MTH (now Lionel) model and does not run nearly as well. That being said I own three MTH Santa Fe 2-10-4s and two MTH Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4s. The visual inaccuracies of the MTH (now Lionel) 5011 class don't bother me enough to cause grief.

Fantastic insight, thank you so much. This is my first model of an O scale ATSF 2-10-4, so there is still a lot that I have to learn. Definitely a still a nice model with great features; makes a nice addition to my mostly ATSF steam fleet.

@Tony E. posted:

Fantastic insight, thank you so much. This is my first model of an O scale ATSF 2-10-4, so there is still a lot that I have to learn. Definitely a still a nice model with great features; makes a nice addition to my mostly ATSF steam fleet.

Here's how close they are visually.

5011 class 2-10-4:

AT&SF locomotive, engine number 5034, engine type 2-10-4 - Photographs - Western History - Denver Public Library Special Collections and Digital Archives Digital Collections (denverlibrary.org)

2900 class 4-8-4:

AT&SF locomotive, engine number 2908, engine type 4-8-4 - Photographs - Western History - Denver Public Library Special Collections and Digital Archives Digital Collections (denverlibrary.org)

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