I was told all PS2/PS3 boards are being used for new MTH releases & not available for upgrades. Does anyone have any inventory saved for repairs?
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I certainly believe that may be true, so by chance, does anyone have spares to sell?
There are probably some hobby shops or repair techs that have boards in stock for repairs. Have you tried reaching out to different hobby shops or techs?
Well, you won't find any for sale, at least not many. Any stock I get now I use for in-house repairs/upgrades.
Depends on what board your actually looking for.
Are you trying to do a gut & upgrade, or fix a current engine with a dead board. 3v or 5v connectors? If it is a dead board you have to be careful there isn't something that will kill the new board. All of us techs have had that disaster happen!
PS3 Diesel and Steam are totally different boards too.
Jim
We’ll, I guess you can call this the start to reach out.
I have no idea, just asking, see below.
I have at least a dozen or more, early MTH, 5V engines. Have had 3 repaired, blown board, in 20 years. The opinion here is, replace the battery, charge it, run it till it blows. Repair or shelve it. I’m just asking for the possible inevitable future failure.
Also asking for GrandpaChooChoo, from earlier thread, since I imagine he’s wondering what to do.
I suspect until MTH starts getting boards in the parts department, you get to have some shelf queens if they blow. We're hopeful that sometime in the future that replacement boards will be available again.
We can only hope.🙄
Trainworld had Mike Wolf on the other night and he explained they have had to redesign the PS board due components no longer being available there was no time frame on when they would be available. He said this is affecting MTH and Atlas
I guess all we can do is wait. If the boards are being re-designed, let’s hope it’s being done in a way that there will be ample supply of components to meet the current demand & future needs for repair.
Are there electronic alternatives to repairs, besides downgrading to conventional?
@ironman1 posted:I guess all we can do is wait. If the boards are being re-designed, let’s hope it’s being done in a way that there will be ample supply of components to meet the current demand & future needs for repair.
Are there electronic alternatives to repairs, besides downgrading to conventional?
Of course there is. Find a good PS2 3V engine and rob the boards and wiring harness, reflash with your new sound file and be on your merry way. For PS3 engines- same thing, get a cheap starter set engine, part it out, rob the boards, reflash new sound file and you are off and running. In some cases a good used engine can be had for under $200 to maybe $250 and you have spare parts and a dummy engine when finished. Given the replacement boards are in that range of price, it's more labor to harvest them but certainly possible.
If there is a will, there is a way.
MTH sets are usually inexpensive. Not a bad idea.😊
What about by-passing all the DCS electronics and just running them in conventional mode? I realize that once you (myself included) have become addicted to command control there is no going back to conventional, but isn't that better than having a shelf queen?
No interest in conventional. Traded all that years ago. DCS, Legacy/TMCC, LionChief/LionChief+ only.
TMCC or Legacy boards still available. 
@BlueComet400 posted:What about by-passing all the DCS electronics and just running them in conventional mode? I realize that once you (myself included) have become addicted to command control there is no going back to conventional, but isn't that better than having a shelf queen?
Temporary shelf queen John, not permanent we hope. 
I watched the Trainworld video with Mike Wolf. Mike talks about how many problems they are having getting chips. Obsolete parts, vendors cancelling chip orders for no apparent reason, having to redesign boards for available parts, and so on. I got the impression that DCS is a one man show. The fellow in Michigan is not only responsible for designing TIU's and the various PS boards, he is also responsible for sourcing parts, placing orders for parts and complete boards, following up on those orders to make sure they are filled, and dealing with unreliable vendors. I assume this is a part time job for him and he has a day job (maybe not). Does it bother anyone else that the future and fate of DCS is dependent on one person? I pretty sure Mike doesn't do electronics design.
Ken
Dave Kriebel is not the only guy he is just the main guy and this is full time job. It's been this way for years they have always been innovative and in the game.
I think there are only two or three people in Michigan, not exactly a huge team.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think there are only two or three people in Michigan, not exactly a huge team.
Well I did not say it was a huge team I just stated Dave was not the only guy
Well, you're right, I'm pretty sure there's at least two. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think there are only two or three people in Michigan, not exactly a huge team.
How many does it take? Steve Wozniak designed the Apple Computer with Jobs looking over his shoulder. They seemed to do OK.
How big is the staff at 3rd Rail. 3? 4?
Pete
@ironman1 posted:I guess all we can do is wait. If the boards are being re-designed, let’s hope it’s being done in a way that there will be ample supply of components to meet the current demand & future needs for repair.
It's not only repairs that are of concern. Have to wonder how long MTH will be able to keep producing all their new release engines (including the numerous special issue runs being done) with their existing supply of boards. Obviously if it takes a while to design and build and import the new PS boards, new engine production could grind to a halt.
@Norton posted:How many does it take? Steve Wozniak designed the Apple Computer with Jobs looking over his shoulder. They seemed to do OK.
How big is the staff at 3rd Rail. 3? 4?
Pete
Completely Agree. We a have big redesign project for a control interface going on right now for air conditioning manufacture that easily dwarfs all the electronics & engineering that Lionel MTH will do for the next several years combined.. The entire team consists of 3 and a half people.
How many folks will it take pump out the design & programming for the WTIU? It's not like they are manufacturing them in Michigan.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think there are only two or three people in Michigan, not exactly a huge team.
Realistically how many people do you think should be working at MTH R&D to make you happy?
Realistically, the number of people that work at MTH R&D isn't going to affect my mood in any meaningful way. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Realistically, the number of people that work at MTH R&D isn't going to affect my mood in any meaningful way.
If it was a huge team, would you feel better about why this was important to say? Otherwise the size of team is a moot point. I mean Dave Olsen is only one guy and it sounds like he's done anywhere from 90 to 100% of the work on the new Base3.
Just because a team is small doesn't mean they can't accomplish great things.
The BASE3 has been years in the making if you watched the videos, and I'd bet money that Lionel has considerably more development resources than MTH.
If I could get MTH electronic parts I'd feel a lot better about their development and company health. I can get ERR stuff, and I get Lionel electronic parts with no issues. I've had no issues doing Lionel repairs and upgrades, but I have a stack of MTH engines all waiting on parts. Curiously, they seem to be able to ship new engines, but can't supply us with parts to repair engines.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:Dave Kriebel is not the only guy he is just the main guy and this is full time job. It's been this way for years they have always been innovative and in the game.
Thank you. That's good to know. I hope Dave has trained someone else on his team to step in in case he gets sidelined in the future for whatever reason.
Ken
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The BASE3 has been years in the making if you watched the videos, and I'd bet money that Lionel has considerably more development resources than MTH.
If I could get MTH electronic parts I'd feel a lot better about their development and company health. I can get ERR stuff, and I get Lionel electronic parts with no issues. I've had no issues doing Lionel repairs and upgrades, but I have a stack of MTH engines all waiting on parts. Curiously, they seem to be able to ship new engines, but can't supply us with parts to repair engines.
IT just goes to show you where the real money is at.
It's not so much the size of the team, as whether there is at least one person who can continue the project as planned, if the main guy/gal gets hit by a meteorite, or joins a commune that forbids technology. No way we are likely going to know that, so we'll just have to see how things play out. Wishing them all good health and no craziness.
A majority of the electronics development is farmed out to a skunkworks of the left coast. They are working on it, but will take time.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Curiously, they seem to be able to ship new engines, but can't supply us with parts to repair engines.
You have a PS3 board that costs you say around $120. Do you make more money putting it in a $600 engine or selling it as an upgrade for $200. It's going to be hard for MTH to justify the sales part of the business if the limited supply of boards are sold to customers for upgrades and locomotives wait on the assembly line for electronics.
MTH could have ordered up a large stock pile of kits (Probable like what ERR and Lionel do), but that doesn't make sense when just sold your warehouse and you are in the middle of reorganizing your company with no place for product to be stored.
The BASE3 has been years in the making if you watched the videos, and I'd bet money that Lionel has considerably more development resources than MTH.
The WTIU has been in development for a while too (maybe even less time then the Base3?), and has the same predicted delivery date as the Base3. How did that little rag-tag group at MTH keep up with Lionel and it's large amount of development resources especially while going through company restructuring with so few employees?
I assure you that everyone including Lionel and ERR are feeling the effects of the chip shortages. Perhaps they were better equipped to weather Covid than MTH as they keep stock higher of boards and components and weren't in the process of reducing inventory or a warehouse move to a smaller facility.
I've had no issues doing Lionel repairs and upgrades, but I have a stack of MTH engines all waiting on parts.
When Mike announced his retirement and the Columbia location being closed, I right away ordered a ridiculous amount of upgrade kits as I figured the the sweet MTHRRC deal would soon no longer be available and with the company in transition, supply of some parts especially electronics might not be produced for a little while. The pandemic didn't help either.
I wouldn't worry about it, someday supplies chains and electronic part supplies will get back to normal.
@H1000 posted:You have a PS3 board that costs you say around $120. Do you make more money putting it in a $600 engine or selling it as an upgrade for $200. It's going to be hard for MTH to justify the sales part of the business if the limited supply of boards are sold to customers for upgrades and locomotives wait on the assembly line for electronics.
I agree with you that from a purely profit standpoint it makes more sense for MTH to put their limited supply of boards into new engines rather than making some available for upgrades or repair. The question is how does that hurt MTH's relationship with their customer? If I bought a $500 or more locomotive and it was defective within the initial year warranty would I want to get my money back or have it repaired? What if the repair time is unknown because of unavailability of boards? What if I have a failed engine out of warranty that I want repaired but can't because of no parts available?
Because of these questions I'm avoiding any new or used MTH engine purchases for now. If they can't support product that has been sold do I really want to buy a new engine from them? Fortunately MTH equipment is pretty reliable out of the box. I have had a few PS2 and PS3 failures that have been successfully repaired but that was before parts shortages and the new business model. I'm fairly sure the replacement parts shortage will sort itself out in several years, but in the meantime I'm not willing to purchase any potential shelf queens even if the odds of that happening are pretty low.
Ken
Ken has hit the nail on the head. I'm avoiding any MTH engine purchases for exactly that reason.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Ken has hit the nail on the head. I'm avoiding any MTH engine purchases for exactly that reason.
Right about now I wish I had done that, John. I just took delivery of an MTH Pacific and it is defective right out of the box.
Yep, that's my fear. It's also very difficult to get anything worked on, warranty work is pretty much non-existent. If the selling dealer doesn't have repair capability, there is no other warranty repair option.
In addition to the above valid reasons, I'm avoiding MTH engines because of the uncertainty of the TIU. Maybe it will come out this fall, maybe not. Also, the functionality is a little fuzzy. Will it work in conjunction with my existing Rev L? Have a lot of MTH Engines now. Hope my Rev L holds up.
@ogaugenut posted:In addition to the above valid reasons, I'm avoiding MTH engines because of the uncertainty of the TIU. Maybe it will come out this fall, maybe not. Also, the functionality is a little fuzzy. Will it work in conjunction with my existing Rev L? Have a lot of MTH Engines now. Hope my Rev L holds up.
That's an interesting question that I hadn't seen before. Since it won't work wirelessly to your MTH remote, that's one incompatibility you'll have with the Rev. L
Designing a replacement PS3 upgrade board with more commodity and available electronics is probably easier than rewriting the software and testing it. That is a significant task for a small team. MTH also needs to make the electronics and basic software for the upgrade boards opens source. My opinion is that it is more important for MTH to increase their users than to keep the DCS protocols proprietary. Hopefully, will increase innovation and part availability.
