Art Deco vs Streamlined Modern

@CBQ_Bill posted:

Charlie:

What is the corrected item on the Pioneer Zephyr ?  Thanks so much for posting your PZ photos.

This is a great thread !!!

Hey Bill, I should really not have said corrected, but rather replaced.

When the Zepher was returned from Wisconsin and lowered into the pit, the observation car tail sign was in place and reported to be the original.

Soon after, the tail sign was removed and the end was left with just plain stainless for many years.

Confirmed by the museum, the "original" tail sign was stolen while the train was in the display space it is in today.

So... what we now see is a replica sign. The sheet metal looked pretty good, not too perfect, but the lettering was just not correct from what I remember. Again, the museum confirmed that this is a replica sign.

I know this is really a esoteric detail, but to me, it was obvious, but I'm glad it was replaced.

Charlie

As l have a Graham dealership model for 1940 built for my layout, l am familiar with.the marque.  The body for the 1939 Graham mentioned above came from dies first used on 1936 "coffin-nosed" front drive Cord. And with the demise of Graham, they got a third life stamping bodies for last-gasp Hupmobiles into 1941.  I am surprised Henry J. Kaiser did not use then on his post WWll Kaiser and Frazer autos, but he didn't get those in production to fit in with all the other makers' post WWll reruns, so styling would have been dated.  .l think  Kaiser picked up some of the remains of Graham and Hupp.

Will, that blue is a color shift, it's actually a light green. Somewhere I have photos of the finished ceiling, I just can't put my finger on them.  When opened, the lobby ceiling was greens and silvers and ??? floral pattern, very complex. the columns were solid gold. We found bits of it under the '34 paint, but they painted that lobby about every three or four years after the war, and everything was under layers of paint--the last bit was blacks and maroon--ugh!!

Yes, there is a mish-mash of styles because of decisions made by the board on what to do.  Amazingly, the public has no idea, or at least thinks it looks great. I won't talk about the horrid office carpet they have used--but with the thinking that with more funding it would be replaced with appropriate carpet.  I told them nothing is so permanent as that which is "temporary."  Amazingly, because of where the styles meet, it really isn't THAT bad.

Oh, this is in Oroville, California. The State Theatre.  Which now has a full-sized Wurlitzer Theatre organ too, and a replica of the ~ 1934 marquee.  And, of course, the full vaudeville stage & fly system, as it is mostly used for live performances.

Mike Casatelli, on the forum again...welcome back my old friend. This has been an enjoyable reunion and read of the virtual sort.

Unless I missed it, there's been little mention of the Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha F7 Hudson, although Mike gave Otto Kuhler credit. Below is a video (not mine) that I never seem to tire watching. For me, this video captures the embodiment of those bygone days, both from a design engineer's perspective and their intent of applying industrial streamlining applications to steam locomotives (which is obvious from the film). I love the scene of the little boy looking upon the Hiawatha at Everett St. Depot and another scene of the mother and two children waving as the Hiawatha steams into the depot. I commend the makers on their choice of background music as well; the 1930s were not all that pleasant for a great many people, and it certainly had its darker elements. Nonetheless, it was an exciting and hopeful time.

HiYa, Paul -

Thanks for your kind comments and the very informative video. I haven't really gone anywhere, I just don't post much anymore.

I didn't mean to give Otto Kuhler short shrift. Of course his Milwaukee Road Hudson, uh Baltic, is a grand example of the styling of the times. A while back my collection included Weaver's version of both this engine and the earlier Atlantic, as well as their respective trains. Sadly, they've fallen victim to my need to downsize, and at heart I'm a New York Central guy.

To me Kuhler's railroad designs were always eye-catching, a bit unsubtle, and maybe even over-the-top. That said, his work for the Lehigh Valley may be the ultimate example of the styling of the '30s, so I've kept Weaver's stunning model of his John Wilkes 4-6-2 -

Great stuff!

- Mike

Charlie:

Thanks for the response.

Yes, the PZ looks better & complete with the tail sign intact !!!

Beautiful trains, @Andrew-Porter!! Thanks for posting that video, @Paul Kallus. This is a most entertaining and informative thread.

Mike, I am glad to see that you're still around, even if you're not posting as much. Frankly, I don't post hardly anymore. I've been meaning to contact you down regarding a train project that I've been working on...and will send an e-mail via your contact info. from the forum.

I know you have an affection for the NYC streamliners...how can anyone in their right mind resist them?! Having once had the Century Club II ESE Hudson and cars and sadly selling them years ago during my first divorce, I was fortunate just two years ago being able to buy a Lionel NYC Empire State Express Legacy Hudson. And, just recently I was lucky to find the matching CCII ESE cars for sale at a fair price, including the Diner sounds car. Thus, the NYC via the elegant ESE graces my decidedly PRR/Reading Appalachian RR from time to time. And, as you may have guessed, so does the Milwaukee Road . I agree with you, Otto Kuhler was a bit heavy in his application of shrouding, but the colors of the Milw. Road were all too perfect not to turn them into electric toy trains. Sadly, Lionel never made the F7 Hudson...but MTH and Weaver did as you know.   

@colorado hirailer posted:

As l have a Graham dealership model for 1940 built for my layout, l am familiar with.the marque.  The body for the 1939 Graham mentioned above came from dies first used on 1936 "coffin-nosed" front drive Cord.

That is an interesting tid bit!  Of course the nose of the Cord and the SC graham are totally different, but now that you called my attention to it, I can see a lot of similarites in the bodies.  Must have been a cheaper way to build a "new" car-- Use the other guy's chassis and body, and tack your own distinct nose on it.

This continues to be a fascinating thread.  I wonder what everyone thinks of the "non-Lowey Streamlined K4s?   It is one of my favorite streamline steamers, but I am not sure it fits in artistically into the examples presented here:

Paul -

Feel free to contact me at your convenience. I'll be happy to have that discussion. That's quite a collection you describe and depict above, especially for one centered on a couple of the of the lesser roads.   You're right, of course, about the Milwaukee Road equipment making great electric trains. Truth be told, I have Lionel's terrific standard gauge Hiawatha Hudson set, and it has become the flagship of my annual Christmas display. If you're interested, have a look here -

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...0#122074300517900530

I always appreciate the chance to show off my photgraphic / videographic skills.

John -

As far as I'm concerned, that semi-streamlined K4 fits in perfectly here. It's not as massive and bulbous as Loewy's storied "Torpedo" and it looks better with a train. as I mentioned earlier, some years back I had to divest myself of the PRR elements of my collection, but that was the one piece I kept.  As it happens, it makes just about a perfect train with my four dark red Rail Chief cars.     

Scale? No.  -  Satisfying? Definitely.

Cheers,

- Mike

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Wrong museum.  This was a temporary exhibit at the Chicago History Museum that was originally supposed to close in December 2019 or January 202 and was not at the Museum of Science and Industry.

Yeah, I edited out a line in error about going to both. Don't edit and walk!

John, I agree, the PRR semi-streamliner fits in nicely...as does the Reading T-1 in my opinion.

Mike, ahh, the Lionel Std. Gauge Hiawatha set...wow, do I regret selling that, too. Divorce is a terrible thing.

@Former Member posted:

Brightened it for you:

You'll find a wealth of information about streamlined train models at this link. Strongly recommend you download the pdfs here, large or small versions:

http://sncf231e.nl/steamliners/

Good advice, Andrew. That's a fantastic resource!

Thanks for posting the link.

- Mike

@Mike Casatelli posted:

John -

As far as I'm concerned, that semi-streamlined K4 fits in perfectly here. It's not as massive and bulbous as Loewy's storied "Torpedo" and it looks better with a train. as I mentioned earlier, some years back I had to divest myself of the PRR elements of my collection, but that was the one piece I kept.  As it happens, it makes just about a perfect train with my four dark red Rail Chief cars.     

Scale? No.  -  Satisfying? Definitely.

Cheers,

- Mike

Mike

I used to pull four GGD scale passenger cars with my Railking K4s.  So it appears the world remained in cosmic balance.

John

Not totally railroad related, but interesting info here-

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StreamlineModerneLA/

Since April, have bought a bunch more streamlined locomotives, including: