Skip to main content

I didn't want to derail this thread, but my tangentially-related thread question was deleted and I was instructed to come here, so here goes:

With Atlas not buying the Rail King molds as part of its purchase, one can assume Atlas only wanted the scale models (and only diesel for that matter). Does anyone want to speculate on what will happen to the Rail King molds for engines and rolling stock?

Other than a little cherry picking, I can't see them being acquired and used. Lionel has near or exact equivalents in its traditional line, often multiple.....my entry into Rail King was more out of interest for DCS and less on appearance or wheel arrangement availability. Same for WBB. They've got plenty of semi-scale models and don't appear to be making those anyway recently, so why buy more? Sure, Rail King has more detail, but is that enough to convince WBB to retire its O27 Hudson molds for example and using Rail King bodies? And both Lionel and WBB have enough rolling stock molds to not need Rail King. Maybe some cherry picking here or there, but I can't see the entire Rail King set of molds as appealing to either of these competitors.

Whose left? 3rd Rail seems positioned in high-end, detailed scale engine making, so unless they want to diversify, Rail King doesn't seem like a fit for them.

Menards? If not, unless a newcomer wants to enter the middle of the 3 rail market, I fear Rail King is dead, sad to say. Anyone else have more hopeful opinions.

"For the sake of OGR I hope the Atlas advertising increases to compensate for the magazine's loss of MTH advertising."

Agree.  But MTH hasn't been doing much advertising in print media, as you've probably noted.  Whereas Atlas has often had a full page in both magazines.  Personally, I prefer print media to electronic for reading, so I'm hoping the magazines survive as long as I do .  I recently resubscribed to two of the three major SF mags, for this reason.

@Jeff78rr posted:

If you read through some early discussions, it stated some of the RailKing line has been bought by another group, with an announcement in about a month. Hang tight, there is hope for you guys and RailKing!

Thanks!  I missed that despite thinking I've read it all. Can you post a link or quote (or is there minimal detail beyond what you already stated?).

This is becoming almost as fun as speculating NFL free agent signings and draft choices.

@Landsteiner posted:

... Personally, I prefer print media to electronic for reading, so I'm hoping the magazines survive as long as I do .  I recently resubscribed to two of the three major SF mags, for this reason. ...

I enjoy my magazines in print form, too. I even drive to the hobby shop to buy them. I'm old.

Anyway .... I guess no chance of those MTH Premier engines coming from Atlas with an option of ESU Loksound DCC, like their other 2-rail engines. I shouldn't be greedy.

Well I figured there was a lot going on behind the scenes, but of course this is certainly an interesting development.  Since the majority of the S and HO scale line were sold off separately I guess it really should not comes as a surprise that O gauge line is breaking up.

- First thought - Atlas are you kidding me?  I don't buy their product now because it astronomically priced, and they have a reputation of taking forever to bring anything to market.  Are $450 diesels about to become $700 diesels? O gauge costs dearly now, I can't imagine what this will do.

- second thought, hmmm, if they are hiring some of the people maybe things will speed up.

- cost to consumer is going to depend a whole lot on tooling cost to Atlas.  The molds aren't brand new so depreciation should be involved in the sales price.

- licensee to dcs huh? - okay well that's interesting.  clearly dcs isn't dying today - Yea!

-No steam engines, that's odd, then again, Atlas doesn't usually make steam engines so maybe that means nothing

- Still waiting for independent dcs company announcement.  What is happening with dcs as a stand alone company and what are the exciting products that were teased?  Inquiring minds want to know!!

- Looks like there was a spoiler alert - railking going else where - that's very good news.

- Following the rest of these developments will be exciting, but still bittersweet.

- My guess is that WBB may step up for the railking line, but I guess we will see. 

@jhz563 posted:


- Looks like there was a spoiler alert - railking going else where - that's very good news.



I believe the quote was "some" of the railking line.  IMO the Railking line seemed to be a pretty good line for folks who wanted a nice engine with all the DCS goodies but didn't have the room or didn't want to spend the money on the premier engines. I hope they find a home for the entire line just not some of it.

@Landsteiner posted:

"For the sake of OGR I hope the Atlas advertising increases to compensate for the magazine's loss of MTH advertising."

Agree.  But MTH hasn't been doing much advertising in print media, as you've probably noted.  Whereas Atlas has often had a full page in both magazines.  Personally, I prefer print media to electronic for reading, so I'm hoping the magazines survive as long as I do .  I recently resubscribed to two of the three major SF mags, for this reason.

Thanks to you and to Andrew for your support of our print publication, which is the foundation of our business. As you noted, MTH has never been a strong supporter of print, but that was their choice. That certainly did not help OGR or the O gauge segment hobby as a whole, but we have survived thanks to other very supportive advertisers who have stayed with us through thick and thin. We have a very good relationship with Atlas, and I am hopeful that, together, we can help grow this wonderful hobby even further and faster.

I didn't want to derail this thread, but my tangentially-related thread question was deleted and I was instructed to come here, so here goes:

With Atlas not buying the Rail King molds as part of its purchase, one can assume Atlas only wanted the scale models (and only diesel for that matter). Does anyone want to speculate on what will happen to the Rail King molds for engines and rolling stock?

Other than a little cherry picking, I can't see them being acquired and used. Lionel has near or exact equivalents in its traditional line, often multiple.....my entry into Rail King was more out of interest for DCS and less on appearance or wheel arrangement availability. Same for WBB. They've got plenty of semi-scale models and don't appear to be making those anyway recently, so why buy more? Sure, Rail King has more detail, but is that enough to convince WBB to retire its O27 Hudson molds for example and using Rail King bodies? And both Lionel and WBB have enough rolling stock molds to not need Rail King. Maybe some cherry picking here or there, but I can't see the entire Rail King set of molds as appealing to either of these competitors.

Whose left? 3rd Rail seems positioned in high-end, detailed scale engine making, so unless they want to diversify, Rail King doesn't seem like a fit for them.

Menards? If not, unless a newcomer wants to enter the middle of the 3 rail market, I fear Rail King is dead, sad to say. Anyone else have more hopeful opinions.

From my understanding of dealer posts on this site non-atlas items will continue to be made via mth. This doesn’t make sense, considering mth is supposedly going out of business, but would be good news.

MTH is about to leave the Maryland facility and has new office space set up for continuing business releasing the already announced products and new unannounced short-run projects.  Understandably, these products were intended to keep the factory and it's employees busy as usual.  In the meantime there will be many more product announcements with the tooling that has not already been acquired by other manufacturers.

MTH asked us (and probably other dealers) approximately 8 months ago about what custom run projects we wanted to do.  I gave them a long list of projects we were serious about having produced, and probably other dealers did too.  Be advised that any short-run items will be "Built-To-Order".  At this time, we are excited about yesterdays Atlas news and news that will be announced within the next month or so.

Stay optimistic!

Yes, DCS is continuing.  Mike and the new DCS company that was previously announced will continue to produce the DCS system and technology, which will now be marketed by Atlas O and who ever else is licensed to distribute it.

Again, this is good news for the DCS and Proto-Sound 3.0 support of existing products through the service network.  Atlas is and always has been very good working with dealers in product support.

@MichRR714 posted:

I think this is wonderful!  Hopefully Lionel will recognize that there is a serious competitor in the marketplace that wants to eat their lunch.  Lionel should seriously get control of quality control and start painting most of their offerings the right color.

Wasn't MTH a serious competitor more so than Atlas?  I agree Lionel needs to work on their QC issue but I doubt Atlas will be anymore of a competitor than MTH was because MTH was right there when it came to competition.   MTH has always been a great competitor and made Lionel a better company in the process.  To be honest I think both kept each other somewhat honest.

@MartyE posted:

Wasn't MTH a serious competitor more so than Atlas?  I agree Lionel needs to work on their QC issue but I doubt Atlas will be anymore of a competitor than MTH was because MTH was right there when it came to competition.   MTH has always been a great competitor and made Lionel a better company in the process.  To be honest I think both kept each other somewhat honest.

Marty absolutley!

MTH has been going away for the last year though.  I don't think that Lionel was all that worried about what was becoming of MTH because it felt more like they were just going away.  Thankfully that isn't happening and competition will remain in the market place.  I used to buy much more Lionel when they were painting trains like models with the correct and consistent colors.  Hopefully Lionel will raise their game again.

Last edited by MichRR714

After reading all the discussion, I venture that Atlas is following its business plan for both their successful N & HO markets. Atlas is a Scale oriented company so the Premier Line makes business sense. Atlas had one attempt at steam in O Scale and it was not a success. ie Atlas choice of sticking with diesels. Plus Atlas in both N & HO manufactures diesels and not steam.  Atlas one failing recently in the O market was the lack of the ability to get their locomotive to the market. Thus this move puts them back into the locomotive game which was their one weakness in the O Scale market. I think this is a win win for all and their purchase follows their proven business plan with their other model lines.



Mike Parks

Charter Member of "The 48 Club"



https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/154026430976643495/filePointer/154026430976643521/fodoid/154026430976643516/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/mceclip0.png

Re Z-4000 and Z-1000 transformers

No announcement has been made for future power supplies and related items yet.  The last run of Z-4000 transformers are still on schedule for a late spring/early summer delivery and quite frankly the amount of pre-orders we have for them are amazing.  The Z-1000 transformers has been shipping in a little at a time over the past four months.  We are stocked up on them and they sell because Lionel doesn't have their redesigned 80 watt available yet.  Both of the MTH transformers has been proven excellent quality power supplies at an affordable price point for many, many years.  Lets hope at least the Z-1000 sticks around for a long time.

@GG1 4877 posted:

This is a good fit for Atlas.  I'll be curious to see what Atlas does with their new acquisitions.  I've always found Atlas product to be superior to MTH in many ways so maybe Atlas will upgrade some of the tooling.

Jonathan, I agree with your assessment.  Their Master 3-rail locomotives (when they were able to get them produced and shipped) were ahead of their time (and certainly ahead of MTH & Lionel) in terms of level of detail.

My biggest complaint is with the sound package...both quality and variety.  RailSounds was fine back when Atlas was getting started with "O" locomotives.  However, selling $400-500++ diesels still equipped with very generic and very dated RailSounds packages (e.g. 4 "notches" of prime mover sounds instead of 8) just doesn't cut it today, especially when compared to Lionel Legacy and MTH PS3.

This deal with MTH--and (hopefully) the ability to use the wide variety of PS3 diesel sound packages--would immediately eliminate that issue...at least for me anyway.

Last edited by CNJ #1601
@CNJ #1601 posted:

Jonathan, I agree with your assessment.  Their Master 3-rail locomotives (when they were able to get them produced and shipped) were ahead of their time (and certainly ahead of MTH & Lionel) in terms of level of detail.

My biggest complaint is the sound package...both quality and variety.  RailSounds was fine back when Atlas was getting started with "O" locomotives.  However, selling $400-500++ diesels still equipped with very generic and very dated RailSounds packages (e.g. 4 "notches" of prime mover sounds instead of 8) just doesn't cut it today.  This deal with MTH--and (hopefully) the ability to use the wide variety of PS3 diesel sound packages--would immediately eliminate that issue...at least for me anyway.

I’m also assuming that the dcs license will be substantially cheaper than lionels tmcc. The Lionel brand carries a lot of weight, while mth is no where near as well known (think outside the hobby, not on this forum) and does not carry the premium name recognition. What this leads to price wise, I don’t know but I’m very cautiously optimistic.

Wow so many Atlas/MTH Dies and Molds treads I was not sure which one to reply to. Like everyone else I can only guess what exactly Atlas will do with these mold but one thing I can say without too much risk is what they will not do.

They will not produce a Premier line using any reference to MTH. They will most likely use these dies and molds in their existing product lines Master Line and Trainman Lines. They will perhaps use the MTH tooling as is putting the more detailed items in the Master Line and less detailed or a little worn tooling in their Trainman line. I think they will add details to expand the detailing on the tooling so that they can charge a premium price for their products.

As far as licensing DCS my guess is they will discontinue using TMCC software once their agreement with Lionel runs out. If they would put both TMCC and DCS in their engines as options think how complicated their offerings would be Not only would they have say SD70ACe engines in say 4 or 5 road names, two or three engine numbers, TMCC or DCS or Conventional, almost forgot 2 or 3 rail holy crap they better build to order as no one could predict how many of each to produce. I would say in less than a year Atlas will stop using TMCC control and sounds.

As far as pricing goes I do not see Atlas going with being the budget line of products. They will continue to be the more detailed higher priced option.

I currently do not own any Atlas engines, going to DCS is not my preferred operating system so future purchasing Atlas engine is iffy in the future. I do own a significant amount of Atlas rolling stock so I can still support Atlas in that effort.

Well the best of luck to Atlas hope they can expand their O scale business.

Oh almost forgot I would hope Lionel can purchase some of their steam tooling, being a PRR fan I would hope to see a Legacy Decapod (Long & Short tenders), T1. Q2 (no Q1s PRR only had one) L1 2-8-2s etc.

JohnB

This is fantastic! The announcement was for "all passenger cars" but then goes on to name specific passenger car molds. No mention of the premier Pullman bi-level gallery cars (Metra).

Those things are like gold right now. Can't buy them for literally any less than a down payment on a new Toyota. Would be nice to see more of them enter circulation just to bring these stupid prices to something more reasonable.

For those that don't watch, they literally sell for around 300 to 400 dollars PER CAR at the moment. 1200+ for a 4 car set, 800+ for a 2 car set. I'm a buyer at a third of that.

@JohnB posted:


Oh almost forgot I would hope Lionel can purchase some of their steam tooling, being a PRR fan I would hope to see a Legacy Decapod (Long & Short tenders), T1. Q2 (no Q1s PRR only had one) L1 2-8-2s etc.

JohnB

John, I second that statement! I would be interested in an I1 or L1 with Legacy. I really would love to see Lionel acquire the P5 boxcab (non-streamlined) tooling and do a legacy run with that (imagine if they added the sparking pantographs too like the VL GG1).

That being said, I really hope someone buys the tooling for & produces the less popular PRR electrics such as the DD1 and L5 that MTH has done over the years. I would hate to see the tooling for those fall through the cracks. 

@JohnB posted:


Oh almost forgot I would hope Lionel can purchase some of their steam tooling, being a PRR fan I would hope to see a Legacy Decapod (Long & Short tenders), T1. Q2 (no Q1s PRR only had one) L1 2-8-2s etc.

JohnB

I love Lionel, but I wouldn't want them being the sole producer of scale die cast steam locomotives.  No competition or incentives to improve or policing the quality.

I believe I read somewhere in these pages that some of the remaining MTH employees will be producing trains that Atlas has not acquired the tooling for, including steam.

There's still a lot that will be sorted out in due time.  Time will tell, I guess.

This is fantastic! The announcement was for "all passenger cars" but then goes on to name specific passenger car molds. No mention of the premier Pullman bi-level gallery cars (Metra).

Those things are like gold right now. Can't buy them for literally any less than a down payment on a new Toyota. Would be nice to see more of them enter circulation just to bring these stupid prices to something more reasonable.

Amen to that! I’d be a buyer at a price close to where MTH priced them in their catalog, but not at the ridiculous auction prices I’ve seen over the past year. One can hope.

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×