Atlas O California Zephyr Passenger Car Sets Available for Order

nice idea.  i hope those who buy, enjoy the sets.  i have mine "built" and may pick up one other car but not interested in the set.

Is the current Atlas KD compatible coupler metal or plastic?  Do you think it will perform under the strain of 12 heavy cars behind the engine?

Thanks,

Ed

Ed Kelly posted:

Is the current Atlas KD compatible coupler metal or plastic?

The ones I've seen on new/current Atlas freight rolling stock are metal.

 Do you think it will perform under the strain of 12 heavy cars behind the engine?

If the Kadee metal couplers handle that load, I can't see why the "new & redesigned" Atlas couplers wouldn't also.

Thanks,

Ed

Hot Water,

Thanks.

Ed

Dave has already said he cannot walk away from the CZ cars as he is more than $0.5M into them.  And they are now in their 10th year as they were first announced in 2006.  It was originally expected they would be delivered before Altas's first predicted delivery date for their first cars.

In the model train importing business it is pay as you go and if it doesn't come out right you pay again and if the builder screws up you pay again.  E.g., $20K upfront to get the designs done. $50K upfront to get the molds made, another $50K up front to buy the materials, another $50K for the initial manufacturing/assembly, another $50K up front to do the painting and lettering, and another $50K upfront for the final assembly.  And at any one of those steps if they screw up its another $25K upfront for them to fix it.  They go day by day and when they run out of money the choice is to give them more or walk away with nothing.  Until you have a container of goods on a ship leaving the country you have nothing.  Not even a container still in China is safe.  The builder can call it back and demand more money to release it.

PJB posted:

Question - this is a "commemorative" edition.  From the names and drawings offered by the dealers in this thread vying for everyone's pre-orders, it's hard to see what if any differences there are between the set that Atlas delivered piecemeal over 7 years and any of these "commemorative" sets.  Do all these differently named "commemorative" sets look identical to each other (other than the names of the cars themselves) or are there differences between them?  And which set most closely resembles the one delivered by Atlas piecemeal?   Thanks. 

The only difference is the names, and which railroad owned which cars, which was true of the prototypes.  They were all built to the same spec, even Silver Rapids.  The initial complete train was 11 cars long, the 6-5 sleepers came several years later, and there were 6 (or 7) complete trainsets.  There was never a WP or CBQ or DRGW complete trainset as they were not manufactured in that order and CBQ added the cars to the Exposition Flyer piecemeal as they were received from Budd.

As near as I can tell Atlas has not previously released any cars with the specific names used on these sets.

Where on Atlas-O's website is the above information available on the details of the car sets and locomotives ?  

Thanks in advance !

Is there a specific order of the cars in the train?  If so, what is it?

Thanks,

Ed

Ed Kelly posted:

Is there a specific order of the cars in the train?  If so, what is it?

Thanks,

Ed

Come on Ed!  Checkout all the various CZ sites, not to mention all the various books that have been published about the CZ, which include many, many photographs.

I'm glad I have no interest in these. My brains are already scrambled trying to put together "period correct" Chessie freight trains. And that should be easy.

I have found the info on Atlas-O's website.  It is one the right side associated with the Golden Spike thread (but not under "new products" on the left side).  

Although these are great models of the CZ, I will not order any of these because the 85' full scale (21") cars are simply too big for my eventual layout.  I also prefer the plated finish on many of the 60' (15") & 70' (18") semi-scale aluminum cars from Lionel, MTH, & Williams.  I do believe that the current prices of the semi-scale aluminum cars are now more reasonable at shows due to the availability of these Atlas-O scale cars.  

Here is a comment of Atlas-O's CZ offering of CB&Q's dome observation car Silver Lookout.  The Silver Lookout was manufactured in 1952, a few years after the initial six CZ dome observation cars from 1948-1949 (CB&Q's Silver Solarium, Silver Penthouse, & Silver Horizon; D&RGW's Silver Sky; and WP's Silver Crescent & Silver Planet).  Silver Lookout was identical to the initial six cars with the exception of its drum head.  Instead of the CZ drum head, it had an Aksarben Zephyr drumhead.  This is because CB&Q would place the incoming CZ dome observation car at Chicago on its overnight train to Omaha, the Aksarben Zephyr.  The car would return the next day and would then go west on the afternoon departure of the CZ.  

Lionel's 2003 60' (15") aluminum CZ CB&Q Silver Lookout model had the regular CZ drum head, which was fine with me.  However, Atlas-O is known as a stickler for prototypical detail.  Therefore, maybe Atlas-O would want to include both the regular CZ drum head & the prototypical Aksarben Zephyr drum head in the box with their Silver Lookout model so that the owner can select either version.  

Rebel Rails has a 6" x 6" aluminum sign with the Aksarben Zephyr logo (if you wish to view it).  This train was named after the Nebraska service organization "The Knights of Aksarben" .   If anyone wants more info, I can dig up the reference regarding Silver Lookout's drum head.  

645 posted:

Mr. Kimble - does Atlas plan to offer ex-CZ cars in Amtrak Phase I (pointless arrow) livery in 4-car sets in the future? An Amtrak set made up of a baggage, dome coach, diner and 10-6 sleeper would make for a nice Amtrak overnight train for smaller layouts.

I'll second that request!!!

I am interested in the D&RGW engines and the CZ cars.  I have looked on the internet for pictures of the Rio Grande diesels pulling the CZ cars.  My question is...''which configuration of diesel engines did the Rio Grande actually use to pull their share of the load on their mountain run?  I have seen some ABA's and some ABB's at the head end.  My question to the folks on the forum that are familiar with this time period would you please give me the benefit of your opinion on what is typical ?

Thanks for your help

Tommy

Which time period?  DRGW F-units were used from the early '50s through 1970.  During the yellow jacket period, from the late 40s through about 1952 they would have a been ABBA, 6K horsepower to replace the 6K horsepower of the PAs.  Atlas is only doing the Phase I F3s for DRGW and I have not seen any photographs of those early (not upgraded) F3s ever pulling the CZ.  The few yellow jacket photos I do see are all Phase II F3s.  After about 1952 they would have been more likely, over time, to have been pulled by the 4 stripe Prospector F units for the next decade or so, still ABBA.  3 units would be still later in the '60s as the train shrank.

Atlas advertises the coming F3 units as Phase I and Phase II models, I assume they will have the corrected fuel tank that the F7s are coming with.

Time period?  I was looking at the 1949's to late 60's. I know very little about the western rr's and the passenger service.  The only time out west was in 1952 when I boarded a Southern in Columbia SC and ended up in San Diego CA.   Southeastern USA is more what I'm used to. Two quick questions if I may.  What's the difference between the phase 1 & 2 F3's and a 4 stripe Prospector F unit.

Thanks,

Tommy

Phase I F3s (also called F2s) have 3 portholes on the sides of the A-units, all subsequent F-units have 2 portholes on the side of the A-units.

You will have to choose the time period; '49-'52 Phase II F3s (but mostly PAs were used on the CZ), post '52 to about ~'64 yellow jacket or 4-stripe silver/gold (Prospector) F3s and F7s, (PAs were used less and less), post ~'64 single stripe silver/gold like the F7s Atlas currently has on their to do list.

Where's Erik Lindgren when you need him, he's much, much more the DRGW expert here.

I had never seen the D&RGW "yellow jacket" paint scheme until Atlas-O's recent announcement, but I really think it's gonna look sharp leading a train of silver passenger cars.

The "yellow jacket" appearance lends itself to a terrific contrast against the all-silver cars, whereas the "prospector" paint scheme blends in nicely with the silver cars for days when you want a completely different look.

Definitely an unexpected expense for 2016.  

David

rdunniii posted:

Phase I F3s (also called F2s) have 3 portholes on the sides of the A-units, all subsequent F-units have 2 portholes on the side of the A-units.

You will have to choose the time period; '49-'52 Phase II F3s (but mostly PAs were used on the CZ), post '52 to about ~'64 yellow jacket or 4-stripe silver/gold (Prospector) F3s and F7s, (PAs were used less and less), post ~'64 single stripe silver/gold like the F7s Atlas currently has on their to do list.

Where's Erik Lindgren when you need him, he's much, much more the DRGW expert here.

The F3s  with 2 portholes per side were the original Phase Is that within a few years of delivery were sent back to EMD for upgrading to F7 specs, side panels and fans were the external mods, check Utah Rails.net Rio Grande diesel roster for all the info there are pics of the 553A in original paint and the 5531[same unit] renumbered and newer paint scheme it appears you can mix and match any number of F paint schemes  with the CZ train and be correct at some point in time.

So what was the paint scheme for the DRGW ABA PA's?  

aterry11 posted:

So what was the paint scheme for the DRGW ABA PA's?  

Honey bee, tiger stripes and aspen leaf. 

The Atlas trucks for the f3 are plain wrong. If they produce a rio grande f7 in black honey bee I'd be all over those.

All,

Ed Kelly asked is there a specific order of the cars in the train and if so what is it. Ed the order of the cars for the 12 car sets is the following behind the locomotives: Baggage car, Chair Dome, Chair Dome with Conductor's Window, Chair Dome, Dome-Buffett-Lounge, Diner, 6/5 Sleeper, 10/6 Sleeper, 10/6 Sleeper, 16 Section Sleeper, 10/6 Sleeper and the Dome-Observation-Lounge car.

Another member asked if we planned to offer ex-CZ cars in the Amtrak Phase 1 (pointless arrow) livery in 4-car sets in the future. The answer is no for a variety of reasons. E-mail me if you want further explanation.

Someone asked about the DRG&W F3 diesel consist along with someone else stating the color scheme for these never pulled the CZ, along with someone else saying the trucks are wrong and I think finally would they have scale fuel tanks. DRG&W pulled the train with a consist of ABBA F3s after about a year of using Alco PAs in an ABA configuration. The paint scheme we're using did pull the CZ, which you can verify by clicking on this link: http://calzephyr.railfan.net/locos.html and scroll down for a picture. The book "Portrait of a Silver Lady  The Train They Called the California Zephyr" by Bruce A. MacGregor and Ted Benson verifies this information as well on page 133. If you really want to be thrilled click on this link: http://www.californiazephyr.org/index.phtml scroll down just a little and behold the four 12 car CZ trains running at the bottom of the screen. Guess what paint scheme for the DRG&W F3 locomotive consist the creators of this Website chose? These locomotive have the Blomberg "B" trucks on them which is correct. To learn more click on either of these links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blomberg_B or: http://trainiax.net/metruck-gp.php . These F3s will have scale fuel tanks just like we tooled up for on our F7s.

I'm headed for the 2-rail show in Lombard Illinois (Chicago suburb) and it may be a while before I check this post again. For quicker answers e-mail me, thanks.

Jerry Kimble Atlas Model Railroad Company 

All,

If the first link on Blomberg Trucks in my previous message gives you an error message try this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blomberg_B

Thanks,

Jerry Kimble Atlas Model Railroad Company

Those trucks are correct for f7, as the feature Hyatt roller bearing journals, but not for f3's. The F3's had friction journal (square type) journals and square type speed recorder.  

... and some of you wonder why many of the manufacturing representatives have abandoned posting on model railroad social sights.

Relatively few changes occurred during the more than thirty years between the introduction of the original Blomberg truck and the introduction of the single-shoe "M" type Blomberg. Minor changes to the brake rigging during F-unit production and again in the 1950s did not result in major visual changes. Later versions (after 1954) lacked the square wear plates mounted under the arch of the truck frame next to the inboard brake arms1.

Several types of wheel bearings have appeared on Blomberg trucks. Most were built with oil-lubricated Hyatt roller bearings, which had cylindrical rollers. The axles were held in place laterally by rubber blocks inside the end caps, which did not rotate. Very early bearings used a larger, boxier housing with springs inside the end caps to center the axles2. Later trucks were built with sealed/greased Timken bearings, which used tapered rollers that eliminated the need for end thrust on the axles from the end caps. On these bearings, the end caps rotated and were tightened to apply the correct load to the bearings3. Some older trucks received newer bearing designs as replacements.

Jerry, Thank you for all of the amazing detail and links you've provided. I appreciate the extra effort to explain your truly awesome project. Can't wait to get the full set!!! 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Those trucks are correct for f7, as the feature Hyatt roller bearing journals, but not for f3's. The F3's had friction journal (square type) journals and square type speed recorder.  

Sorry but you are NOT correct1 The "original" Hyatt roller bearings, referred to as the J-1 Journal Box (square) were indeed oil lubricated cylindrical roller bearings, i.e. NOT "friction". There were two distinct styles of the J-1 Hyatt journal box; one being the "plain box" and the other being the "Combination Box", which was the larger square box, to allow for speed recorder drive mounting.

The later, or more modern Hyatt JMRA oil lubricated journal boxes, carried through well into the 1980s, when railroads began specifying the Timken "cartridge" design of sealed grease lubricated roller bearings (model GG). 

Jerry,  Thanks for the information!  Can't Wait to get the set I ordered!

Big Truck Pete and A. Infinito,

Thank you for your kind responses along with the purchase of a set. To others on the periphery don't let some of those that think they're the experts on this train or any portion of it that have no intention of purchasing it ruin your decision process. It's highly doubtful that you'll ever see this offer again and if so at a much higher price point. As a matter of fact there is a brass version of this passenger train being offered at this link: http://www.keymodels.net/id9.html and here: http://www.keymodels.net/id13.html . Atlas Dealers that are also Key Import Dealers tell me the cars list for $1000.00 each and the locomotives list for $3000.00 each. This isn't a put down but recognition of another premium California Zephyr 12 car passenger set on the market.

The deadline to order our set is April 4, 2016, but I would strongly advise not to wait until the very last minute. I'm a Santa Fe enthusiast personally, but even the Super Chief in my opinion didn't match this train for it's beauty. I've collected the cars since they first hit the market in 2010 (not 2003 as someone previously noted) and have acquired all the ones that I've wanted to make my CZ set, but I've still purchased the Golden Spike version as well because I know of all the details going into it. If you can afford it, just do it as you won't be sorry. For now I'm out of here until after I return from Chicago and have had a chance to answer e-mails and catch up on my other duties.  

My apologies as I just realized I put the wrong deadline for our sets, it's May 4, 2016, thanks.

Jerry,

Thanks.

Ed Kelly

Ed Kelly,

You're welcome.

Jerry Kimble Atlas Model Railroad Company

Jerry Kimble posted:

 

... I've collected the cars since they first hit the market in 2010 (not 2003 as someone previously noted) and have acquired all the ones that I've wanted to make my CZ set, but I've still purchased the Golden Spike version as well because I know of all the details going into it. If you can afford it, just do it as you won't be sorry. ...

Jerry, I was almost gonna do just that... Until you guys also announced a new D&RGW F3 ABBA in the yellow-jacket paint scheme.    With all units powered, that pretty much took the funds (and then some) I might have used on the Golden Spike CZ set.    Decisions... decisions.

David

Interesting the yellow-jacket paint scheme  was the as delivered scheme for FTs, F3s, F7s [except last delivered 5700 series] and PAs [2 years]

Another California Zephyr car that is still in regular service is the DRGW Silver Bronco.  Silver Bronco runs on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad.

The car was briefly named "Emerson" for a short time due to its corporate sponsor.   It was renamed Silver Bronco again recently and is well cared for by the CVSR.  

New graphics "Silver Bronco" applied to the #1105 by the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad

Hey, I've got a stupid question: Do we pay upon filling out the request of the golden spike club limited edition 12 car set from Atlas or when the set comes in?

thanks,

Sam

Sam,

The only stupid question is the one not asked. The answer is you don't pay until the set is ready to ship which we're counting on December as the target time frame for shipments. We will ask for a credit card that won't be charged as a show of goodwill, other than that you're good to go. If you decide on the locomotives they won't ship until late the first quarter of 2017.

Speaking of locomotives, David sorry to hear the D&RGW F3 ABBA will deplete your funds for the set, but do remember the F3s aren't going to ship until late the first quarter of 2017 if that will help any.

Vista Dome Scott, thank you for the heads-up on the Silver Bronco still earning its keep as I didn't have a clue that it was in service for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad.

Jerry Kimble Atlas Model Railroad Company

Thanks Jerry.

Fair enough for wanting my MC. 

I'll probably be flogged for this but I'm considering using my Williams E-7 Burlington A-B-A (both A's powered) for motive power to keep the cost down (flog, flog, flog), although an F3 A-B-B-A would look cool!

Sam