Atlas O Vs. Scaletrax

Here's a thought.  Design your plan using software with multiple track manufacturers available and see which manufacturer's track works best.  SCARM is still free for limited use, and I recommend it.  Then, decide whether "looks" or ease of use or cost will be the biggest factor in your choice of track.  By the way, many people here have complained about Atlas flex-track and quite a few swear by Gargraves flex-track.

Chuck

The Rollers on your engines will probably be better off with Atlas track. I come across lots of postwar items that were run on "Super-O" track, which has a center rail very similar to the scaletrax one, and they dont look good... You'll also probably be able to find Atlas O easier than scaletrax, its more popular than scaletrax and more dealers carry it, and the used market will be more populated with Atlas O. Atlas O would be the safer choice in my humble opinion. Either way, I'm eager to see your layout progress! 

I've used both Atlas and ScaleTrax. Both have pros and cons. The biggest pro about Atlas is the tie length/width and spacing; the biggest con is that the flex is tricky (but not impossible) to work with. All new alignments at the club are being done with Atlas as it doesn't rust and is quieter than Gargraves due to solid rails.

ScaleTrax is easy to work with, but the joining is a bit tricky with the clips (not major). The tie dimensions and height are great, plus the rail height is nicer. The tie spacing however, matches concrete "commuter" trackage (as do the rail retainers) rather than wood. I had even thought about painting the ties off white to mimic concrete ties. When ballasted, ScaleTrax looks very good.

The big factor for you should be turnout and section availability. Atlas has more sizes available, plus it's easy to connect Ross turnouts to Atlas track. With ScaleTrax, you have to "trench" the Ross turnouts because the rails are higher and butt-joint the sections since no connectors would work reasonably well with the two track types. From a rail height perspective, I'd use Atlas track without cork roadbed and ScaleTrax with the roadbed.

Hope this helps some.

I use Atlas track on my layout and like it a lot. The rails are a bit larger than I would like, but not bad. My one suggestion is this. Unless you are going to have massive curves (larger than O-100) DO NOT USE FLEX TRACK!!!! I bought the flex track and was really excited for the look of gentle curves, but it is nearly impossible to bend. I ended up buying sectional track for my curved parts and couldn't return the flex track (ouch $$$). Scaletrax is super easy to bend, but if you're doing sectional, Atlas all the way!

Hi there Jack. I'm a proponent of both systems ( but not GG) you are considering. I had a decent sized layout using scaletrax and was very happy with it. Like you, the low profile and thin center 'blade' appealed to me. The flex track was very easy to work with (unlike Atlas) and the switches were reliable. Although limited to 072, #4s, and #6's I never felt hindered by the choices. You can always use Ross switches to expand when needed and when ballasted and weathered they do blend in nicely. The overall look of scaletrax enhanced the scale appearance of my equipment and definitely made the locomotives appear more 'massive' due to the low profile.

Scaletrax is significantly less expensive too.

Like you again, the tie spacing of scaletrax continued to bother me and I am planning to use Atlas on my next layout due mainly to the spacing. I still don't like the oversized rail that Atlas uses, especially the center rail which causes the track to look 'clunky' and crowded to me.

I experimented once with a short length of Atlas where I removed the center rail and replaced it with the blade from scaletrax. The effect was terrific! A huge improvement as far as I am concerned. When I'm ready to build again, I might try replacing the center rail with something else in certain areas where the track is highly visible...

I decided to use Atlas track just because it is available on the West Coast. and most online firms carry it.  None of the hobby shops out here carry Scaletrax.  I think you will need to identify a reliable source for Scaletrax before you decide to use it.

NH Joe

Just look at Rich Battista's videos, and you'll have your answer.  End of discussion.  

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Just look at Rich Battista's videos, and you'll have your answer.  End of discussion.  

I have, and again the tie spacing bothers me.  I have an MTH dealer within 20 minutes of my that does large orders of Scaletrax, so that is not a problem.  To clarify, I would really only be using flextrack to make an 063 size curve with Scaletrax, so Atlas flextrack is not really gonna be used.  Is there a way to swap rails/ties?

Jack Swan5010 posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Just look at Rich Battista's videos, and you'll have your answer.  End of discussion.  

I have, and again the tie spacing bothers me. 

I had the same impression when I first saw the MTH Scaletrax, however I was sort of willing to overlook that since the rail hight/size was SO MUCH moor realistic for our 3-Rail SCALE planned layout (large curves and large turnouts). Finally, I decided on the Atlas O "21st Century Track System". 

After all our track was layed and wired, I then saw Rich Battista's videos! Looking back on it, I wish I had gone with the MTH Scaletrax product, as it looks more prototypical, in my opinion, having spent my entire working life in the railroad motive power business.

I have an MTH dealer within 20 minutes of my that does large orders of Scaletrax, so that is not a problem.  To clarify, I would really only be using flextrack to make an 063 size curve with Scaletrax, so Atlas flextrack is not really gonna be used.  Is there a way to swap rails/ties?

Jack Swan5010-

I was in the same place you were just a year ago.  I decided on Scaletrax and couldn't be happier. The first layout I did was with Gargraves track and Switches. Those Gargrave switches were since changed out to Ross. 

There is no single clear winner for 3 rail track. Each vendor has their strength and they also have their own unique weaknesses. 

My advice, is to buy a few pieces of each that represent what you will be using (sectional, flex, straight). Get familiar with them and their quirks. That way you can choose the track that is best for you and your skillset. This may cost a few extra dollars, but those few extra dollars are much easier to swallow than redoing the entire track system. 

Let us know what you find out.

Thanks man, I'll see if I can get some demo track from my dealer and test it out.

Hey Jon, quick question. Do you use ross switches with your Scaletrax?

My two cents: 

1) Flex track is great in HO, N, and Z....but is very, very hard to work with in three rail O scale.  With so many different curved sections available, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.  (If you need a jig to bend the curves, why bother?)

2) Just my taste, but I've always preferred Ross/Gargraves and Atlas over all others.  Taste is obviously subjective. 

Good ballasting can make them all look good.  Most people seem to like working with one brand over another....for whatever reason.  There is no wrong answer there.

Regardless, there are SO many more options today than when I was growing up in the 1980s.....and all of them are better than what we had available back then.

Best of luck, OP.  Enjoy the adventure!

mike g. posted:

Hey Jon, quick question. Do you use ross switches with your Scaletrax?

FWIW, the construction of my new layout earlier this year luckily coincided with MTH re-stocking many of their ScaleTrax dealers with new inventory -- including the long-awaited #4 and #6 turnouts that had been nearly impossible to find for a couple of years.  So I encountered no supply issues that adversely affected the project's timetable.

There was one spot on the layout that really needed a curved turnout which matched the Ross #6 curved turnout offering, and that has worked out just fine with no issues.

David

Thanks David! if you don't mind I would like to shoot you an e-mail as not to hi-jack the OP post.

Jack,  I used the Atlas O Century O-72, O-81 and larger curves and the O-72 and #5 switches, including five #5 Double-Slip switches. The track looks great, but has some weaknesses.

1. The small track sections can drop rails very easily---They fall off because only the thin plastic molded rail spike heads hold the rail to the ties. I have over forty pieces of track that lost rails. Some were already damaged in the sealed Atlas O bubble packs.  (Atlas O should use a machine screw through the ties and into the rails to hold the rails in place.)  The small track sections have only a dimple in the plastic tie bed that keeps the rails from moving. Unfortunately this dimple acts as a wedge and can pop the rail off the ties from the thin spike heads when joining two small sections of track together.  Be careful.

2. The outside rails are not wired together (like old Lionel tin plate track with metal joining ties)  and need power leads to both outside rails.  (Lionel recommends this for signal strength for Legacy engines.)  The Atlas O Century track makes isolated track sections for triggering signals and accessories easier.  My Atlas O signals look great and are worth the effort installing them. The computer boards allow the signals to "talk" to each other as the train moves around the layout.

3. Atlas switches do not throw the switch if a train approaches a closed switch unless additional boards and wiring are put in place. The old O-72 Lionel switches would throw themselves, avoiding derailment of the train.

Every track system has its strength.  I like the realistic look of Atlas O Century 3-rail track, even though I have had to replace two O-72 switches that lost interior rails because they popped off the switch tie bed.  I have also lost rails on one 90-degree crossing. The short track rail sections are prone to come off in handling the track too much as a layout is built.  (A machine screw through the tie bed and into the track rail would help solve this problem.)

Have fun building your layout.  Track maintenance is part of the hobby.

John Rowlen,  "Valley of Bridges" 

John Rowlen posted:

Jack,  I used the Atlas O Century O-72, O-81 and larger curves and the O-72 and #5 switches, including five #5 Double-Slip switches. The track looks great, but has some weaknesses.

1. The small track sections can drop rails very easily---They fall off because only the thin plastic molded rail spike heads hold the rail to the ties. I have over forty pieces of track that lost rails. Some were already damaged in the sealed Atlas O bubble packs.  (Atlas O should use a machine screw through the ties and into the rails to hold the rails in place.)  The small track sections have only a dimple in the plastic tie bed that keeps the rails from moving. Unfortunately this dimple acts as a wedge and can pop the rail off the ties from the thin spike heads when joining two small sections of track together.  Be careful.

2. The outside rails are not wired together (like old Lionel tin plate track with metal joining ties)  and need power leads to both outside rails.  (Lionel recommends this for signal strength for Legacy engines.)  The Atlas O Century track makes isolated track sections for triggering signals and accessories easier.  My Atlas O signals look great and are worth the effort installing them. The computer boards allow the signals to "talk" to each other as the train moves around the layout.

3. Atlas switches do not throw the switch if a train approaches a closed switch unless additional boards and wiring are put in place. The old O-72 Lionel switches would throw themselves, avoiding derailment of the train.

Every track system has its strength.  I like the realistic look of Atlas O Century 3-rail track, even though I have had to replace two O-72 switches that lost interior rails because they popped off the switch tie bed.  I have also lost rails on one 90-degree crossing. The short track rail sections are prone to come off in handling the track too much as a layout is built.  (A machine screw through the tie bed and into the track rail would help solve this problem.)

Have fun building your layout.  Track maintenance is part of the hobby.

John Rowlen,  "Valley of Bridges" 

Thank you for sharing man.  I appreciate everyone chiming in and giving their opinions and experiences.  I will work out some layout plans and see which track fits my space the best.  I will post pics of the plans.

IMO, track is a personal preference and I agree with the others that have said to go look at the different track types, find some you like and buy some samples to test your trains on (or get your LHS to loan you some if you can, this may be unlikely?). When you make your selection you can sell any track you no longer need, right here on the forum, for free.

I started out wanting Fastrack, then I heard a layout with trains running and it was quite loud to my ears. After a lot of reading and looking at track at my LHS, I narrowed my selection down to Atlas & Scaletrax just as you have, because of solid rails (and much less noise). Unfortunately Scaletrax is the only track type that my LHS does not carry. I ended up going with Atlas because of the much better selection of curved track and switches and I actually like the look of it better than the Scaletrax (which I had only seen in pictures and a track book I purchased). I may have been swayed to Scaletrax a bit more if they had a better selection of curves and switches. That was an important feature for me and I wanted it all to be the same and match.

I could not be happier with my Atlas track and switches. I had a few problems with some used switches I bought, but anything I have purchased new has had no problems at all. A couple of the used switches I got had the missing rail problem mentioned above, but they looked like they had been 'well' used. I have not had this problem with any new track I have except for one piece I dropped on a concrete floor and it landed right on one rail on the corner. About 3-4 ties came loose on the one rail where it hit the concrete. I seldom clean it either, the trains just keep running and it really doesn't look dirty so I don't clean it much.

As I said I am really happy with my Atlas track, but I really do think it's better for you to select the one you like the best so you will be happy. I think both systems are good and both have pros and cons as said above. All of the cons can be worked around on either system and you will end up with a good solid, reliable track system. Also a lot of the track reliability is provided for by having a smooth flat substrate to lay your track on. Then laying the track a close to perfectly as you can getting everything flat, level and carefully aligned. And last properly sized wire, blocks, power supplys, etc. will all make a difference and should give you a reliable and almost trouble free layout. Everyone has some problem come up at one time or another, but I can truthfully say that my problems have so far all been self inflicted and my fault, can't blame the track or the layout or the trains. 

Good luck with your selection and which ever system you choose! 

I recently purchased some used scaletrax for my display cabinets. I was not that impressed as the scaletrax can be easily damaged and difficult to repair. Atlas O on the other hand mates with many other track systems and can easily be repaired with super glue and HO scale spikes! 

And the repaired track is much stronger than the OEM!

By the way, many people here have complained about Atlas flex-track and quite a few swear by Gargraves flex-track.

Chuck

Well that's true! After kinking so many Gargraves flex 3 rail sections and having the joints come out with big gaps, I swear I will NOT use and waste my hard earned money on that track again! It's so Last Century!

My layout will use Atlas O track for sure as it has many properties and strengths that I like!

Cut and fit the track accordingly.  I did one or two pieces of flex track and found it difficult to work with.  

Difficult to get this, Picture center, with flex track.

I agree 100 % with RTR12 about Atlas track staying clean. Their nickel silver rails have a surface like glass. It's non-porous finish gives dirt build up nothing to adhere to. Any dirt that does try to hold on will flake off and build up along the tracks, not on the tracks. My train shop had a shelf layout that had 2 MTH diesels pulling a long string of Lionel auto carriers that ran at 14 MPH around the room every day, except Mondays, from opening to closing. The way I cleaned the tracks was with a mini shop vac. Never did I wipe them with chemicals. I was afraid to destroy that smooth finish. After giving up the shop for a home with a large open basement, I am now in the process of building a large layout that will need a lot of track. For myself, track performance (clean, quiet, and continuity) is more important then looks. Atlas staying clean has always stuck in my mind but I also want a quiet track. So with the aid of a decibel meter app, I ran some sound test. One at a time, I laid 30' of each track on top of 1/2" rubber foam anti-fatigue padding on the concrete floor. This gave me zero layout surface amplification. I then built a sound proof box with a hole in it so that I could watch the meter as the engine (with it's sound turned off) passed through at 45 MPH. One of my findings was that any hollow rail worked like a stereo speaker. Sound emitted from the rail ahead and behind the engine, before and after, the engine entered the sound proof box. This must be due to the fact that sound waves can travel inside the rail at a faster speed then the train itself. To make a long story short, Atlas came out the winner for track with no road bed and MTH Real Trax with solid rails for track with road bed. Another finding was with adding ballast. Filling the entire road bed with ballast increased sound reflection because it created a flat surface under the train for sound waves to reflect off of. Adding ballast only to the outside of the rails leaving the middle empty, helped to trap the sound under the engine and kept it from escaping from between the ties and also broke up the sound waves because of the uneven surface the ties created in the trench between the rails. Hope this info helps you decide.

Thanks for the tip on repairing atlas track.

Berkshire President posted:

...

1) Flex track is great in HO, N, and Z....but is very, very hard to work with in three rail O scale.  With so many different curved sections available, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.  (If you need a jig to bend the curves, why bother?)

...

I think folks looking at ScaleTrax will find its flex-track to be a VERY WELCOME change to the "usual" O-Gauge flextrack culprits.  If I recall correctly from back in my HO days as a teen, the MTH O-Gauge ScaleTrax is basically in the same league as the smaller scales' flextrack -- if not even a bit easier to work with.  It's a night-and-day difference from Gargraves and Atlas-O flex-track.  So keep that in mind if you're seriously considering a layout that's gonna require lots of flextrack.  Just sayin'....

I am a very experienced and long term Atlas O track user. I love the track but it absolutely DOES get dirty. I will be happy to post photos of my track cleaning pads and various cleaning tools. It absolutely requires a good track cleaning car for any areas under cover. Loss of signal will result if the track is not cleaned.

Scrapiron, once you use any chemicals or abrasives, the track surface looses its ability to shed the dirt. Wish I took a picture of the build up of black flakes laying along the rails before I shop vacuumed it up every other month. The train ran 48 hours a week and I never had signal or power issues and never touched the rails with cleaner or abrasives.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Berkshire President posted:

...

1) Flex track is great in HO, N, and Z....but is very, very hard to work with in three rail O scale.  With so many different curved sections available, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.  (If you need a jig to bend the curves, why bother?)

...

I think folks looking at ScaleTrax will find its flex-track to be a VERY WELCOME change to the "usual" O-Gauge flextrack culprits.  If I recall correctly from back in my HO days as a teen, the MTH O-Gauge ScaleTrax is basically in the same league as the smaller scales' flextrack -- if not even a bit easier to work with.  It's a night-and-day difference from Gargraves and Atlas-O flex-track.  So keep that in mind if you're seriously considering a layout that's gonna require lots of flextrack.  Just sayin'....

Thanks David.  I was totally unaware of that.  That's a game changer, in my book.

I had a rude awakening some time around 1986-1988.  I'd watched my neighbor and some other friends using HO flex track and thought Gargraves would work the same.  Not so much.......  

 Could you use a product like RainX to restore the smooth finish? 

Bandomnjr posted:

The Rollers on your engines will probably be better off with Atlas track. I come across lots of postwar items that were run on "Super-O" track, which has a center rail very similar to the scaletrax one, and they dont look good... You'll also probably be able to find Atlas O easier than scaletrax, its more popular than scaletrax and more dealers carry it, and the used market will be more populated with Atlas O. Atlas O would be the safer choice in my humble opinion. Either way, I'm eager to see your layout progress! 

Totally untrue of superO. I today run superO with all my modern and PW without any problems to the rollers. 

It was a rumor started many years by some repair people which has stuck for all these years. SuperO never put grooves or cut the rollers at anytime.  SuperO is the best track system ever made. With more radius of their curves and better switches the system would still be used today. Most of the tooling has been lost to history. 

You can increase the radius of superO track with some work. 

Dave

I've used ATLAS track for 15+ years.  It's the premier all-around system, IMO, as it provides ease of use with sound moderation and relative great looks.

All track gets dirty, but the Atlas track I use gets far less so than the tubular I used many years ago.  A quick cleaning is always a good idea for any track.

I use the 39" track as a straight run ... I've found no need to "flex" flex track as Atlas makes such a variety of curves and is easily cut, if necessary.  That's just for me/my layout.  Others may have a different experience depending on design and need.

david1 posted:

... SuperO is the best track system ever made. With more radius of their curves and better switches the system would still be used today. Most of the tooling has been lost to history.  ...

 

That's really sad.  I remember back when my Dad bought me my first O-27 train set out of Lionel's 1966 catalog.  A year or two later, when we went shopping at the same hobby store to build a Super-O layout with switches and the works, the selection of Super-O track had dwindled considerably.  And by the time Lionel published its 1969 "pamphlet" (not really a catalog), only some select pieces of O-Gauge tubular track was catalog'd.  That signalled the end of the Lionel Toy Corporation as we knew it back then.  

So Super-O's time in the spotlight was really more or less in the 1950's decade and early 1960's.  A relatively short life for such a great product.  

I haven't used either scale trax or Atlas O personally, but from people I know who have both are great track systems and in the end it really comes down to personal preference, in terms of look, atlas is easier to use in some ways, scale trax another, likewise with difficulties. The only thing I have heard is if you are building a relatively big layout availability might be a problem (and yes, I am aware that both Atlas and MTH after having problems have more stuff in stock), especially if you are looking for certain things, like switches in X size at certain times, other than that people seem to be pretty happy with both kinds of track IME, for what it is worth.

As far as Atlas track not needing cleaning, a lot of that comes down to how you use it, where it is and so forth. They use nickel silver, which is what high end track used for years on HO, and based on that experience it still will need cleaning. It doesn't tarnish like brass or steel, and from what i recall about NS it doesn't build up dirt as easily, but it still does, and I suspect that over time as the rail wears it will be likely to attract dirt easier. I could see where rail that has heavy use might stay cleaner, the dirt would likely not get much of a chance to stay there, or over time accumulate, especially if the person running trains didn't run equipment that is over lubricated (oil from over lubricated engines and cars does a number on track IME). 

I have used Atlas for about half a dozen years now, and I rarely need to clean it for my conventional engines.  The TMCC engines, however, are MUCH pickier and need a wipe down after any period of disuse longer than a week.

I also needed to clean  the black off the top of the center rail for them.  They did not like that at all.

I do not believe this is a track-specific problem but rather a power/control system problem.

I am kinda leaning towards Atlas at this point.  How does Atlas look with Ross switches?  I need some to complete my Atlas layout design.  Do they look right?  Could I have some pictures?

I know your looking for a good, long lasting track system and for what its worth, I would encourage you to use ready made pre curves, as both manufacturers have these. I used both Atlas, Ross trackage on 1/4 cork roadbed on 1/2 Homasote, on 5/8 plywood. We used scenic express ballast and with this sysem, all hooked to Legacy control, we have almost No noise. We can turn off all the sounds and just listen to 4 to 6 trains run with just a very minimal sound. Quiet. On the other hand, we can turn on all the sounds and its simply amazing..... Trying to bend curves is fine, but its very easy to get a kink. Good luck with your layout. I think the new trucks on our rolling stock is much better  today as are the engines we are running. This helps quiet things down to. Happy Railroading

For what it's worth, we've never had a 'kink' using MTH flextrack. Unless you've had experience with Scaletrax, most are thinking Gargraves or Atlas which DO kink easily.

Scaletrax is very similar to using HO flextrack - It returns to 'neutral' when released, making transitional curves a pleasure...

Jack,

I was someplace else on this forum just a few minutes ago where the poster demonstrated (with pictures) what Ross switches looked like next to Atlas track.  Unfortunately, I can't remember the post  where this was demonstrated, but I do remember the discussion.  The Ross ties are a little longer than the Atlas ties and the Ross ties are spaced slightly wider between each tie.  There is also a slight color difference.

All of this difference basically disappears when ballast is added, and, on the plus side, the two types of track easily mate well.

Chuck

PRRHORSESHOECURVE, thanks for the repair tutorial. Looks good to me and I am going to try it out on the piece I dropped. It was a brand new piece. I might also dig out a switch or two I got used that had rail problems and see how that goes. Seems like they may have had other problems, but I forget exactly?

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Also, to add to my post above, I have not had to remove any of the blackening from the center rail. In fact on some stuff I got used the blackening was either removed or had worn off in places and I restored it with Blacken-It. It worked, but was kind of a pain and took several applications. If I try that again I will try another product like Neo-lube or gun blackening that others have mentioned here on the forum.

I have not had any signal problems with either DCS or Legacy. I have only PS3 and Legacy engines, all diesels, no steam. Not sure that matters, but thought I would add that just to clarify how I was using my layout. I have cleaned my track a time or two, usually when I rubbed my hand across it and got a black streak. It didn't look dirty and was still working just fine, but I cleaned it anyway. My layout is wired per Barry's book as closely as I could follow it, using OGR wire (#14 to MTH terminal blocks then #16 for final track drops). Again, I couldn't be happier with my Atlas track, I am sold! 

I think Eric's Trains (Eric Siegel (sp)) did a video of adding a Ross switch to his layout, which is also Atlas track. I have only Atlas switches.

One additional comment on Atlas Flex. Atlas changed the 3-rail flex so that the stringer is now on one of the outer rails. This becomes your "outside" of the curve which makes things a bit easier. Also, if you use Rich Battista's technique for laying out flex, the Atlas behaves a bit better -- still not as easy to flex as ScaleTrax, but lines up better and doesn't kink up the track joints.

One caveat, though. Thermal expansion/contraction can come back to get you. We laid up a stretch of the layout using Atlas flex and over the years a kink developed in a joint. It's small but my six-axle scale-wheeled engines are now "finding it". Hi-rail engines aren't affected.

Jack Swan5010 posted:

I am kinda leaning towards Atlas at this point.  How does Atlas look with Ross switches?  I need some to complete my Atlas layout design.  Do they look right?  Could I have some pictures?

I use Atlas track with Ross switches and like both products very well. I considered Scaletrax but when I was buying track it just wasn't available. I lay strips of N scale cork next to the ties (credit to Dennis Brennan)  and paint the track a dark brown and it visually reduces the "mass" of the Atlas track. 

Joe