B&A Berkshire, where's the whistle mystery solved.

Some of those smaller Berks just don’t have the room inside the shell …..I’ve recently added a Legacy Berk chassis to a B&M Kline Berk, and even without any electronics in there it’s pretty dang tight in there,….I’m not 100% familiar with the B&A Berk, so are they about the same size as the B&M?….I know Lou ( Lou1985) did an IC Berk with a Legacy chassis and a Kline shell, and he did PS3, maybe he can agree or disagree on just how tight it is in there,…..or perhaps as as you mentioned, maybe they just plumb forgot,…

Pat

@RickO posted:

Ah ha!

Here's the old thread where I asked the same question. It appears ,the whistle is actually located next to the stack. At least in these photos anyway.

(Be sure to view the photo link I posted on this other thread as well)

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ire-whistle-location

That's the B&M version of the first berks.

Very interesting. Good problem solving to figure this out. I have noticed some engines having the whistle up front, not quite like these though.

I can't tell if that's a whistle or not next to the stack.  No clear view here either.

https://nycshs.files.wordpress...14/10/baaclasses.pdf

I have a book titled "Berkshire Days on the Boston & Albany" that has numerous photos of B&A Berkshires. In some, a little nub just in front of the turret can be seen and is probably the whistle. Several other pictures show "whistle steam" that seems to confirm the position. My K-Line model of A-1a #1407 has what looks like a short, small-diameter whistle just ahead of the turret and slightly offset to the engineer's side - color is black - not brass. The location on my model seems to match the circled location in the OP photo. Reply here if you would like to see a photo of the model.

MELGAR

In my opinion the pic I posted looks more like a whistle than the others, but being a arm chair rail fan I’m no expert.  I could very well be like the bell, they were re positioned in different spots over their career, but keep researching this.  We’ll figure it out.

Looks like a safety valve to me. Small inlet, larger outlet.

@RickO posted:

Heres an excellent high quality photo Gary.  When you zoom in it  looks like it might be whistle. Theres a large port at the base of the whistle. No clue what that is. Unless its something else, maybe these locomotives have 2 whistles?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcomike/46412636982

Now, to get this to Lionel so they don't offer a whistle steam feature and no whistle

Looks like the whistle is tapped off a supply line for maybe the generator?….this would coincide with Jack’s statement that the whistle is air operated and not by lanyard or linkage, …..I looked at that pic too, I didn’t see an air line or anything else, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there,….

Pat

@RickO posted:

Heres an excellent high quality photo Gary.  When you zoom in it  looks like it might be whistle. Theres a large port at the base of the whistle. No clue what that is. Unless its something else, maybe these locomotives have 2 whistles?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcomike/46412636982

Now, to get this to Lionel so they don't offer a whistle steam feature and no whistle

That's definitely not a whistle.  Looks to be a consolidated type safety valve, probably to prevent over-pressurization of that pipe.

https://valves.bakerhughes.com...5411543-safety-valve

Most whistles commonly used on U.S. locomotives have the same basic form going back to pretty much the beginning.  At the simplest, they have a bell on top.  Early ones could have just been a tube with a flat or shaped top, later ones were cast and had visible "steps" depending on the height of each "chime".  Under the bell is a bowl with a languid plate in the center which directs the steam at the proper angle/velocity to strike the bell and make the sound. There is a surprising amount of precision needed in machining these parts to make a whistle sound right.

Some whistle bowls have an integrated valve, others (generally earlier on and non-locomotive applications) used a separate valve elsewhere in the plumbing.  The one below is a five chime whistle from a C&NW locomotive.  It has a horizontal valve and is a flange mounted base vs the threaded connection often used.  At the very least it's a good representation of the basic shape you'd be looking for.

Now if you blow my pic up where I circled, doesn’t that look like the top of the whistle pictured above? Thanks for posting Jake.

@superwarp1 posted:

Now if you blow my pic up where I circled, doesn’t that look like the top of the whistle pictured above? Thanks for posting Jake.

I'm thinking so, although it's still difficult to tell for sure.  

This is beginning to be one of those needle in the haystack topics. I don't know if these are covered in one of my NYC books as they do list some B&A in there, but not sure if there are close up pics. I think it is called something like NYC Steam Power or something like that. It's a paperback book, I think about 100 or so pages. I'll look tonight to see if there is anything in there.

@RickO posted:

Now, to get this to Lionel so they don't offer a whistle steam feature and no whistle

Noted

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

This is beginning to be one of those needle in the haystack topics. I don't know if these are covered in one of my NYC books as they do list some B&A in there, but not sure if there are close up pics. I think it is called something like NYC Steam Power or something like that. It's a paperback book, I think about 100 or so pages. I'll look tonight to see if there is anything in there.

I’m looking through all my Stuaffer’s NYC books,  All my B&A books, still have a dvd to review.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...0998379309/sizes/4k/

@superwarp1 posted:

I’m looking through all my Stuaffer’s NYC books,  All my B&A books, still have a dvd to review.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...0998379309/sizes/4k/

Sorry Gary, worked late got home late, got side tracked. The book I have is called New York Central Steam Power In The Empire State. There was only one photo with a B&A Berkshire A1-a #1408 from Ed May. The photo was taken in 1946 I think, and was on page 37 of this book. In the comments about it, it said that the next series in these books would feature Ed May's photos and be entirely of the B&A. You may have the book. I would figure looking up any of that which I just mentioned may yield something or be right were we still are. The photo was on the engineer's side and low looking up, so no chance of seeing a whistle.

I just did a search on 1408 on my break here at work and looked at some images. Well, besides a few pictures of 1408, 1400 and 1435 popped up. There are good pictures of those two, but I think the smoke/steam that is in them is probably from a dynamo since it is back towards the cab and is more of a constant cloud than a spray like a whistle.

I'm sure that there are more pictures out there, just have to dig a bit more. Have a look at those and maybe order one of the books from Amazon unless you already have it.

Here's a pic from are good friend Mario Centralfan 1976 of a IC berk, which is copy of the B&A berks.

@superwarp1 posted:

Here's a pic from are good friend Mario @CentralFan1976 of a IC berk, which is copy of the B&A berks.

Well, that's where my PSC whistle is going...

I think the HO guys know where it goes.  This HO model from Division Point????  Sold for 2500 or more????  Pic also from Mario.

That is a sweat looking engine.