Belts on Lionel Lumber Loader 364 and Coal Loader 397

does the belt look like it's stretched more then normal, also there might be an adjustment you can move or slide the mechanism back enough to tighten up the belt tension and make it work correctly. can you put pictures of your problems on the forum and wel figure it out ok. glad to help you!

Alan

Are you sure the 364's belt is not slipping? That is the common problem with the replacement belts, as soon as the weight of a log gets onto it, it starts to slip. The solution I used was to turn the belt inside out and hang it from a coat hanger wire. Spray the underside with 3M adhesive and leave dry completely. This puts a tacky surface on the business side that allows the belt to grab to the motor drive pulley easier.

Tin

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think there is a tension adjustment for either accessory.  For the lumber loader I think the weight of the motor puts the tension on the belt.  I'll see about the coal loader. Will try to add photos.

As to the main pulley on the lumber loader, that was the first problem - belt was not turning at all.  Repair manual indicates there should be a strip of tacky tape on the pulley, but there was nothing there. I resolved that by putting double sided clear tape around the pulley.  Belt turns on the pulley fine now, but the logs were slipping.  I thought that was strange.  I will try the 3M adhesive to avoid using the double sided tape.  Do not know how long that will last.  Might also look into a replacement pulley at a train show that's coming up here in Portland in 2 weeks. 

Alan,

If I did this correctly, here are two short videos of the problem with the coal loader. The first is with a clean bin - belt works fine. The second is with a small amount of coal - belt begins, then stops abruptly.  I also included two photos - one shows the coal itself and the other is the source - an ancient bag of American Flyer coal.  I think there are two issues here: the coal pieces are too small and the belt is too old (may have stretched a bit).  I know the Lionel literature on this unit cautions to use only Lionel coal. May be some truth here. 

Thanks,

Michael

I am having the same problem with 397 Coal Loader. The coal that came with loader was/is ground up black plastic. The size of the pieces of plastic varied any where from tiny sliver to something near 1/8" in diameter. After a couple of tries disassembling loader and cleaning every last bit of coal from unit I sent "Ground Up Plastic" to the garbage can.

I the went to local train store and purchased "Lionel 6-16889 Rotary Dumper Coal Pack". This product eliminated the problem of everything jamming up, BUT, the pieces are to big for the belt to pick up and transport up the incline.

My next attempt is to go to an aquarium shop and purchase some black gravel. The first store only had gravel that was even bigger than the Lionel Coal. I will keep searching as I believe this solution will work if I can find the right size.

I think that there might be a problem with the weight of the aquarium gravel but I have to try. I do plan on washing & drying gravel to remove any small sand like pieces.

Just my three pennies worth of babbling 

Denny

See if you have a small food grinder. That could help you out here.

look on the forum here there is someone that found something that looks like coal and work perfectly!

Alan 

Alan and Danny,

Yes, I do recall a thread of comments on type of coal to use on a layout and I thought the suggestion was to get aquarium gravel...so I did.  Got it from Petsmart.  Be sure to get the midnight black. There is a dark blue that looks similar.  See photo.  So I used it on the coal loader and the video shows that there was no jamming.  I took a closer look at the size of the coal pieces and there is a wide range. I would think I should go through and omit the very large (won't make it up the conveyor) and very small (will jam the unit).  Also must be sure the coal cars can handle this size and weight.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Michael

I have purchased several large bags of coal from Brennan. I then took a plastic colander and drilled out the holes to give me the proper size I wanted. Then I dumped all the coal in the colander and sift out the small stuff that was getting into the 397 and leaking out of my coal car hopper doors. Has worked great. I lost about 15% due to size sorting but I use that in the bottom of fixed coal loads where it won't be dumped. I too changed the belt on the 397 but have been please with its performance so far.

Thanks for the suggestion about the colander. I was wondering how to screen the coal to get just the right sizes.  Great idea!

Michael

Good news.  I followed some of the suggestions above and problem solved.  I purchased a cheap plastic colander, widened some of the holes, and screened a bag of aquarium gravel. Then I replaced the belt on the coal loader (replaced rubber grommet along drive mechanism at same time as preventive measure). What a difference! No slipping or binding at all.

Thanks!

Michael

397 coal loader - if the coal pieces are too small, they get underneath the belt, and make the belt slip.

364 lumber loader:

- some did have a flat spring to increase belt tension. Most just used the weight of the motor.

- if the belt is slipping on the motor pulley, the rollers that the belts run around may not be turning freely on their pins. remove the rollers one by one. Clean out the holes in the center of the rollers. I use pipe cleaners wet with mineral spirits. Then a drill bit that just fits (don't want to make the hole bigger), chucked in a pin vise, then another pipe cleaner, wet with mineral spirits.
Clean the pins too.

What I do on slipping belts on 364 log loader is take a piece of 100 or so grit sandpaper (not that critical) and cut a piece that is the width of the black wheel and use Walthers Goo and wrap it around the wheel. No more slipping belt!

American Flyer coal was S gauge.

Thanks for the suggestions.  Re: lumber loader, I cleaned all pins, but the culprit was the poor condition of the "new" belt as well as the black pulley wheel (logs slipped on the belt and belt slipped on the pulley).  Replaced the belt and put double sided sticky tape on the pulley. Now all is good.  May replace sticky tape with the sand paper.  Good suggestion. 

Re: coal loader, all is good with new belt and screened coal.

Thanks!

Michael

Trouble with double sided tape is that when it's been sitting, belt will be stick to wheel.

Thanks for the tip. I am actually just about done with a temporary layout. Part of this year long journey has been to revive vintage Lionel operating accessories, including the lumber loader (now working!!) .  The latest plan is to showcase the latest and greatest on the layout when family (including grandkids) come over to watch the Super Bowl...then it all comes down to construct the permanent layout.  This means storing items for as long as it takes.  It makes sense to remove the sticky tape and go the sandpaper route on the pulley. 

Thanks again.

Last week I had the same problem my 364 lumber loader, red belt slipping on the pulley. Being desperate not wanting to have to replace the belt. I started searching the internet and remembered reading a post from a few years ago about using black electrical friction tape. So off I went to local hardware store and bought a roll. What I did was remove the rear pulley/belt cover and slipped the belt off the pulley and removed pulley by removing the 3/8" nut. Did a single wrap of tape and reinstalled all. Easy repair that worked great!

Now for another repair on a second 364 for which I am at a dead end. I am using Lionel logs, 3/8 x 5". There were lots of small problems with this unit including a bent frame,  After making some repairs, the logs would sometimes slip on the belt as they climbed to the top.  I want to try to avoid replacing the belt if at all possible. Has any one been able to improve the belt tackiness? I think the original logs were 1/2" diameter, maybe that is the key?  In the mean time I am going to pick up a 1/2" dowel and see if that helps. My other unit is using the 3/8" with out a problem. Hmmm.

Thanks.

It's really not that bad of a job to replace the belt on a 364.  Let's face it, 50+ year old materials deteriorate with age.

I have had success for 364 belt movement by placing a tight rubber band around the black plastic wheel to create traction.  Also, sometimes the problem of slipping logs is the logs, not the belt.  Make sure the logs are not slippery by a light ruffing, cleaning.

Thank you HOLD*ON. On one unit where the belt was slipping I used black friction tape, and that worked well.  

As far as the logs slipping, roughing up the logs sounds logical. I will try that out this weekend.

Thanks RJR. I purchased belts a couple of yrs ago, Now I have to find them. Thanks for the support.