Bet You Don't know How The Term "Hi-Rail" Came to be.

Hey Don;

Interesting bit of trivia.  Thanks for sharing.

"And thats the rest of the story" (Paul Harvey)

Learn something new everyday.

Hi Don, I never knew that. I always assumed it was due to the high standards of the of that branch of the hobby. But, I always thought the term High Rail came about in the seventies.

I think you have a real historic document there.

You get  the five Cool award for this one,  and the fans loved it!

Hi Don thanks for the great info

Alex

Thanks for the information Don. I had always thought that High/Hi-Rail was called such because the O Scale track was taller than the O-27 track. 

Thanks everyone. I thought it was called Hi-Rail because the rails were higher than scale rail. It's amazing what you can find in old books. Don

me too

Sure it wasn't published in 1953?

Like you, Don, I too thought the term existed because of their tall rails. The true story is good to know. Thanks for the education.

Frank

The publishing date in my book is 1951 but looking at many of the pictures I think it was updated later. This version could be 53. One shot has the "newer" 027 switches with rotating lantern. Not sure when the Pennsy port hole caboose came out but it's on the cover. Can't make out the number on the F-3 but Lionel stuck a yellow Lionel Sign on the nose. Don

I was told in the early 50's that high rails were used because of the larger than scale flanges on the tinplate wheels would ride on the ties and the spikes of scale height rails. This became hi-rail.

Well...cute stories are often not true - or at least not contain all of the truth, and I have a copy of a Louis Hertz book written in the 1930's wherein he uses the term "hi-rail" to describe what he was doing to Lionel O-gauge tinplate locos and equipment to improve the realism and add variety to his roster (he would cut up O-gauge tinplate steamers - no diesels then, of course - to make Consolidations, etc; he even provided templates). I still

go for the "higher rail" origin. But, I'm not betting the family treasure on any of it.

If you are not familiar with Louis Hertz, search his name.

I shave wondered about that phrase ever since seeing it referred to on tthis forum.

thanks for posting !!

I am familiar with Hertz. If you read the book the opening says, "To identify the branch of model railroading that attempts to duplicate life in miniature. The Commander (he was later in the Navy reserve) devised the term "High-Rail". The National Model Railroad Association has recognized "high-Rail" and has formed a committee for the purpose of promoting this phase of the hobby". Both Lionel in two pages of their "Model Builder" magazine, "Model Craftsman" in a series of articles and a number of large hobby shops said this is where the term "High-Rail" came from. D500, sorry you don't like "cute stories" but in this case I think it's true. Hertz's book came out in the 30's, so did the first layout of this father and two son's. Don

Jargon has always interested me. Thanks Don, cool factoid to know....now if we could just figure out where the "O" comes in. I've heard many takes on it but nothing as near as definitive as your finding of the "high-rail" origin. Good detective work there. 

Hi Jeff,I heard that the O-is a German designator that was picked up by early Lionel from Marklin who first produced three rail track.

I'm sorry someone who speaks German, or knows better needs to confirm this.

Don, I talked my Dad into buying that book for me when I saw it on a newsstand rack around 1953.  Thanks for the post about it.

It planted the seed.

Don, That was in Dennis Brennan's book"Toy trains" Fred

That's right, although they call it null (zero).  In the late 19th century the Germans came up with a standardized gauge classification which started with 0 as the smallest, then increasing as 1, 2, and even 3.  Gauge 1 is still around and is a fairly popular scale in Europe.  Ives in the US originally made gauge 1 trains but switched to Lionel's Standard gauge when that became the predominant large gauge train in here.

Regarding the origins of Hi-rail, I've heard the story that the OP did.  However, I have a 1940's Walthers catalog with an article by Mr. Walthers explaining it as using toy trains in a realistic way - with the term derived from the higher tinplate rails.  I have also seen the pre-war reference by Louis Hertz.

It's all good!

John

I never knew that--thanks Don.

Wow, found copies of the book on the internet. Amazing. I'll have to get one mine is falling apart. Don

Strangely enough, the undisputed fount of truth and knowledge supports the 'higher than scale' track theory.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rail  

I saw that Nicole. I was thinking of adding to their limited knowledge. Don

Thanks,  scale rail, for bringing this bit of history to my attention.

After reading this thread, not only did I learn, eventually, after reading the entire thread and a link,  what hi-rail means but,  I found out I'm a hi-railer!!!

Very interesting.  Good memories.

The Pennsy caboose on the cover came out in 1953.

I also have a book by Morgan.  It is probably the same book with a hard cover.  I don't know if it was rebound.  I tried to see what books he may have written  This is what I came up with:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/...mp;editionsView=true  (I didn't spend much time.) I'll see if I can locate mine.

 marker, He wrote a book about California Missions also. My version must have really been published in 53 even though it says 1951, Don

Of course, in the real world of trains, that's true - the main line rails are called the "high rails" because the rails are taller (and heavier) than branch line rail.

I'd heard man versions. Thanks...

When I saw the header, I thought the subject was going to be about trucks/cars that can ride on railroad tracks using retractable steel flanged wheels, hence the term High-rail (short for highway/railroad).

Louis Hertz, respected toy train authority that he was, is not the center of my O gauge universe. I like Don's story.

I'm always interested in old '50s pubs.  This looks to be a great one.  As far as I can tell, the publication dates was, indeed, 1953.  But.  Were their previous editions with different covers? 

Don...could you take a photo of the copyright page if it's not too much trouble?  This is one of those great mysteries of train pubs of the '50s.

Thanks!

Don interesting stuff. I enjoy the historical stories of how hi rail developed from 3 rail toy trains. If you read the old Model Builder magazines from the 1930-40's there are many examples of early hi rail layouts in these issues, even if they didn't call them hi rail.

Seacoast, I do also. Glad I saved some of my older books and magazines. In the 1939 and 1940 Lionel catalogs you will see pictures of Lionel Hi-Rail layouts. Also, rthomps I must have been looking at the small print without my glasses, it was 1953. Fawcett books did another of these paperback books in 1952. It included all scales. Don

If my memory serves me correctly back in the 70's Miron Bigger who then published O Gauge magazine came up with HI-Rail to distunguish O Scale three rail from O Scale two rail since the front cover of O Gauge Railroading magazine stated "For two and three railroaders".  Back then the two rail group didn't consider three rail group O Scale. At some conventions, words between these two groups were somewhat nasty.  Possibily Rich Melvin or Mr. Bigger can chime in about this discussion before we all had the internet.

Jack   

Jack, the book I have was published in 1953 and they said Hi-Rail was coined in the late 30's. Don

Great stuff Don! I found a website awhile back that contains many of the old Model Builder and other out of print magazines and its free. They are all scanned in.Try this link.

http://www.trainlife.com/magaz...anuary-february-1937

Fine.  In the 70's they were just trying to distunguish between two and three rail, hence three rail became HI-RAIL, thats all.

Jack, not trying to pick a fight. Thought you were saying they invented the phase. I was wrong. I would love to hear from some of the old timers about this. George what a find. Thanks. Don