Big Boy 4012 Returned to Display at Steamtown

Nice pics, the engine looks great!  Last saw 4012 in person three years or so ago, and it was very apparent the work was sorely needed.

That's great to see it all shined up, nice pictures!

Very nice!

Now guys & gals, tells us all what those numbers under the cab windows indicate.

Awesome news. I was there a year and a half ago and she was looking pretty shabby.

Wow, when I was there several years ago, she looked mighty rough around the edges.

Good job.

Nice and Shiny. I wonder how the mechanicals look

Good to see it looking nice and shiny again.

@Hot Water posted:

Very nice!

Now guys & gals, tells us all what those numbers under the cab windows indicate.

only because I studied this when 4014 was going thru it

4-8-8-4-1-68    wheel arrangement, Class 1, 68" drivers

23.75 cylinders   32 piston stroke

540,000lbs over the drivers

I think??

She and, all the others at Steamtown for that matter, looked very respectable when I was at the grand opening of the N.H.S on July 1, 1995:

But the weather over the years had obviously taken it's toll.

Nice to see her back in fine attire.

Mike

Hi hot water I purchased this book from Kalmbach Media about the big Boy's and it has lots of good information on them. Hope this answers your question on the cab numbers.

@Gary Marsh posted:

Hi hot water I purchased this book from Kalmbach Media about the big Boy's and it has lots of good information on them. Hope this answers your question on the cab numbers.

Cool books.   I'm pretty sure HW knows, he's just asking us if we know.  

Great pictures and very good news. Thank you for posting.

Jim K

@Gary Marsh posted:

Hi hot water I purchased this book from Kalmbach Media about the big Boy's and it has lots of good information on them. Hope this answers your question on the cab numbers.

Thanks, however I don't need the answers, as I was asking if the REST of you folks know what those numbers indicate! I worked as a Contract Fireman for the UP Steam Program for some 17 years (retiring at the end of 2010), and we got those same questions every place we stoped, especially on Challenger 3985.

@EscapeRocks posted:

only because I studied this when 4014 was going thru it

4-8-8-4-1-68    wheel arrangement, Class 1, 68" drivers

23.75 cylinders   32 piston stroke

540,000lbs over the drivers

I think??

Very good. Now how about that "MB"?

What the cosmetically restored engine needs now is a cover to keep it looking nice.  Otherwise it will look pretty sorely in a few short years.  Very nice job from what I can see in the photos.

I live only 10 mins away, gonna have to take a look!

@Hot Water posted:

Very good. Now how about that "MB"?

Refers to the stoker, I think. Still on 4014 even though it's oil-fired.

@AGHRMatt posted:

Refers to the stoker, I think.

Correct. It uses a Standard Stoker, type "MB".

Still on 4014 even though it's oil-fired.

Nope. The designation "MB" was removed and replaced with "DB", indicating the burner "design" for the oil conversion by "Dickens Barker", i.e. the Manager and General Foreman on the UP steam crew.

I was there in 2005 and thought that the difference between 4012 and 2 were quite startling:

Our real interest was the Electric City Trolley Museum where they had this ex-P&W "bullet" car:

This is great news. I’m about a half hour away, so I’ll have to check it out, when next I go to Scranton. My grandchildren are amazed at the size of that. (Oh, me too!)

@Hot Water posted:

 

Refers to the stoker, I think.

Correct. It uses a Standard Stoker, type "MB".

Still on 4014 even though it's oil-fired.

Nope. The designation "MB" was removed and replaced with "DB", indicating the burner "design" for the oil conversion by "Dickens Barker", i.e. the Manager and General Foreman on the UP steam crew.

Time to break out the black paint and dry transfers.

@Apples55 posted:

Tim said that the move went much smoother and quickly than everyone had thought.

Quickly is an understatement! I was there in August 2019 before it went into the shop.

I wonder how much stabilization went into the restoration - I'm comparing this to RRMPA's restoration of PRR 460 which took 10 years and involved a lot of stabilization from my understanding.

I hope RRMPA can get the ball rolling on the roundhouse soon so that they can restore the rest of the PRR historic collection in their restoration yard.

Paul:

Thanks for the report. My wife and I are going to Steamtown in June and will be sure to check out the 4012.

Pat

Wouldn't it be nice if the 4012 went through the same restoration the 4014 went through. All the tools and and such are on hand. I think it would be awesome to see it breath and live once again, instead of rotting away from the inside.

We go to Scranton each year on a kilbasi and beer run, so we will get to see it in August.  What a magnificent beast.  There is a much smaller Lionmaster on my layout.   Thank you, Apples55 for the fine photos and a big shout out to the National Park Service and the many folks that made this happen.

POT,

Sounds like a plan.  You'll have fun there in August.

Q: What's your favorite place, in or near Scranton, for kilbasi and beer?  (Inquiring minds want to know -- for reference during my next visit.)

Mike

@Jayhawk500 posted:

Wouldn't it be nice if the 4012 went through the same restoration the 4014 went through.

Then would would Steam Town do with it, after spending that many millions of dollars?

All the tools and and such are on hand.

Maybe "on hand" in Cheyenne, but I doubt the tools, and more importantly the experienced know-how, are "on hand" in Scranton.

I think it would be awesome to see it breath and live once again, instead of rotting away from the inside.

They would have no place to run it, or even turn it around. Yes, it is tough to swallow reality.

Thanks for sharing the pix and info Paul.

I guess we can all dream of seeing her under steam but we will have to use our imaginations.

@Hot Water- besides the obvious hurdles of a full mechanical restoration- what would prevent it from being run east of the Mississippi? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Thanks for sharing the pix and info Paul.

I guess we can all dream of seeing her under steam but we will have to use our imaginations.

@Hot Water- besides the obvious hurdles of a full mechanical restoration- what would prevent it from being run east of the Mississippi?

Any number of things:

1) Clearances and locations to turn such a huge locomotive, which essentially never even operated east of Cheyenne, Wyoming on the UP.

2) Fuel, i.e. it was designed to burn Wyoming coal, specifically Hanna coal, and the 4000s consumed huge quantities of such coal, plus tended to set lots of wayside fires (remember the UP Challenger #3985 when it was still a coal burner). Then again that's why not much vegetation grew along the UP right-of-way across Nebraska and Wyoming.

3) Virtually no longer anymore qualified/experienced personnel remaining on how to PROPERLY operate it and maintain it.

4) Finding a railroad even willing to operate such a huge locomotive, and provide the necessary liability insurance.  

Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob

As much as it saddens me, I have to say I think Hot Water is on the money. When I was talking to Tim, he pointed out that the restored UP 4014 ran on UP trackage. The only trackage that Steamtown owns is within the complex. There have been a number threads on this forum regarding the major railroads having issues with running steam, so a restored 4012 would be all dressed up with nowhere to go

That being said, I would like to see some work done on 4012 to prevent any further decay/damage. maybe some sort of shed to keep it out of the worst of NEPA’s fickle weather. I think it would be fun if they could somehow hook up the steam whistle - have it go off like a clock on the hour!!!

@POTRZBE posted:

We go to Scranton each year on a kilbasi and beer run, so we will get to see it in August.  What a magnificent beast.  There is a much smaller Lionmaster on my layout.   Thank you, Apples55 for the fine photos and a big shout out to the National Park Service and the many folks that made this happen.

There is a great German restaurant just south of Honesdale, PA (home of the Stourbridge Lion) called The Alpine (not sure if it the restaurant has reopened yet, but the deli is). They have great German beer and the used to hold the Wurst Buffet in the Poconos on Thursdays...

Well now, I will definitely make a trip up to see it again.  I just wish they let you in the cab like the B&O Museum does with #1604.  Thanks for the heads up.

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

Well now, I will definitely make a trip up to see it again.  I just wish they let you in the cab like the B&O Museum does with #1604.  Thanks for the heads up.

-Greg

Interestingly enough, when I was there, they were waiting to put the DO NOT CLIMB signs on the 4012 (this Saturday is National Train Day, so they are expecting a decent size crowd). So, I immediately asked if I could climb on before the signs went up... can’t fault a guy for trying

Near the turntable inside the roundhouse, two of the rangers were putting some of the now ubiquitous blue and white directional arrow stickers on the ground - who knew the Eastern Division of the TCA was so ahead of the times

@Apples55 posted:

Interestingly enough, when I was there, they were waiting to put the DO NOT CLIMB signs on the 4012 (this Saturday is National Train Day, so they are expecting a decent size crowd). So, I immediately asked if I could climb on before the signs went up... can’t fault a guy for trying

Near the turntable inside the roundhouse, two of the rangers were putting some of the now ubiquitous blue and white directional arrow stickers on the ground - who knew the Eastern Division of the TCA was so ahead of the times

That's funny!

I wonder what the penalty would be if someone climbed up.  Yes, I admit it - I've been tempted in the past.

-Greg

I've been in the cab of 4012. IIRCC, it was at one of the pre-COVID Rail Fests, which are held over Labor Day weekend. I have pictures somewhere...

Chris

LVHR

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

POT,

Sounds like a plan.  You'll have fun there in August.

Q: What's your favorite place, in or near Scranton, for kilbasi and beer?  (Inquiring minds want to know -- for reference during my next visit.)

Mike

Bosak's in Olyphant for the kilbasi.  All the old guys are gone (Janus, Kutsop).  Schiffs for beer, although there is a good distributor across the street from Bosak's whose name escapes me.  We haven't been in 2 years due to covid but hope to correct that.

The La Festa Italiana is well worth going to in September if you are visiting Steamtown.

http://lafestaitaliana.org/

@POTRZBE posted:

Bosak's in Olyphant for the kilbasi.  All the old guys are gone (Janus, Kutsop).  Schiffs for beer, although there is a good distributor across the street from Bosak's whose name escapes me.  We haven't been in 2 years due to covid but hope to correct that.

Perfect!  That's what I was hoping for -- two or three good stopping points for the average tourist coming through.  I'll put them in my file, to make sure that I don't miss them when I arrive.

Thanks,

Mike

The Park Service just posted a short time-lapse video of 4012 being moved from the roundhouse to it’s new display location... short, but worth a watch.
https://www.nps.gov/stea/learn...Aey4ORvPd2jdffE5h-Ws