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Last week I received the newly released Blue Comet engine/tender (11-1017-1) and passenger cars (11-40040).

 

The engine and tender are in perfect condition. However, I noticed the passenger cars had some paint chips. Nothing major, but still not what I expected for $1000. Here is a picture.

 

IMG_0150

 

Anyway, my dealer understood my desire to get a replacement and contacted MTH for me. A few days later I heard from someone at MTH who told me he could send me a paint kit. I replied that I preferred a replacement and he replied that MTH Warranty Policy states that they will repair or replace Items under Warranty at their option. In other words, either they will use the paint kit or they can send it for me to use. He also said that this kind of chipping happens occasionally and that it doesn't mean the cars are not brand new.

 

Has anyone had a similar experience?

 

What is the quality of the results when using the paint kit?

 

Is it easy to do?

 

Thanks.

 

Frank

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It's under warranty. I would seek to return/exchange. Doesn't look like something MTH can "fix" without taking the set back to the body shops paint booth.

 

As you said, you shouldn't have to tolerate that. I'd classify it as damaged goods. Are the paint chips in the box or, stuck to the "foam" wrapping material?

 

If you have access, I suggest posting your pics to MTH's Facebook page and see what they say directly. If they value their positive social experience on Facebook. You can bet they'll give you a reasonably quick reply.

 

 

I think that it 100% unacceptable and unless that set is something you can't live without, I would get a refund from you dealer and try to locate another set.  I mean we are paying 1000.00.  MTH has gone way downhill and do not care about their customers anymore.  I expect these items to be perfect out of the box. The fact that they even have paint kits available means they know darn well they have paint problems.

Read Tinplate Art's thread on the Brute showroom cars to find out if touch up is for you. I believe he used the two part paint that MTH sends for touch up on his Brute engine (I know someone who contributes on this forum did), and he had an automotive paint store color match the greens for his showroom cars.

 

Your problem seems to be quite common these days.

Even from my side of a sales counter, that car is not acceptable.  We had same exact issue with the Standard Gauge two-tone green State cars about a year ago.  We were able to get MTH to replace them for our inventory.

 

The real problem here is the fact the edge of the sheet metal roof is left rough and sharp.  Beause the tops are hinged, they need some play (or movement) in the mechanism in order to easily open and close.  Because of this, there's  not enough packaging or padding applied between the roof and car body to prevent the rough and sharp edges of the roof to come in contact and scrape or chip paint on the car body.

 

The real way to fix this problem in the manufacturing process is to smooth and finish the edge of the roof, so it is NOT rough and sharp.  Perhaps the tolerances are off, as in a little to much metal than there should be on the overall stamping of the size?

 

If these were headed into my personal collection, touchup paint doesn't solve the problem, because they will chip again from the same problem as I described.

 

I cannot say what your dealer is or is not willing to do, but if it were me, MTH would be sending a FedEx call tag for the damaged items to be returned.

This is what happens when people cave in, and agree to the touchup deal...MTH is merely reaping the benefit of people not willing to do without a certain car or cars.  People who accept this crap are not only screwing themselves...they are encouraging the screwing of the rest of us.  Why should they replace when they know people will accept junk???  I agree with above post suggesting EMBARRASSING MTH on Facebook.  Maybe Mike will be working the DRIVE-IN window at McDonald's in 10 years!!!  Enforcing their option to repair or replace is just plain ARROGANCE!!!  At any rate, I recently bought $3600 worth of LCT from Justrains, and WE opened every box BEFORE I wrote the check...am I the only one on this entire Forum who does not pay until ALL IS RIGHT???

Completely unacceptable. How many other items around this price range in our lives would we accept as new in this condition? None that I can think of. Yes, it can be fixed with touch-up paint but, one it will happen again as Wurlitzer stated and two this is a new item and should be in mint condition when we get it, not touched up.

Originally Posted by Ron Blume:

This is what happens when people cave in, and agree to the touchup deal...MTH is merely reaping the benefit of people not willing to do without a certain car or cars.  People who accept this crap are not only screwing themselves...they are encouraging the screwing of the rest of us.  Why should they replace when they know people will accept junk???  I agree with above post suggesting EMBARRASSING MTH on Facebook.  Maybe Mike will be working the DRIVE-IN window at McDonald's in 10 years!!!  Enforcing their option to repair or replace is just plain ARROGANCE!!!  At any rate, I recently bought $3600 worth of LCT from Justrains, and WE opened every box BEFORE I wrote the check...am I the only one on this entire Forum who does not pay until ALL IS RIGHT???

I did not agree to the touchup deal. Last night I requested a refund from the dealer and now the dealer is communicating with MTH to try and make things right. So either I get a refund or a replacement.

Frank

Understood Frank...I was not referring to you...the numerous threads on the Brute Cars actually were on my brain.  To be fair, I imagine there are many CUSTOMERS who  "sit" on that plank, awaiting the MTH baseball hitting the "target", dumping them into the pool of ACCEPTANCE.  I really think we all value our money differently.  To some, a couple thousand is chump change.  To me, it's a mortgage payment, grocery orders for a couple months, fuel for the car, etc.  Accordingly, I gotta hold the branding iron to the dealer's butt, and DEMAND total satisfaction.  This is just my opinion.  Art is right...NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!  Except, the more people that go with the flow, the less chance LCT will replace OUR trains!!! As far as I'm concerned, Mike Wolf can put that touchup paint kit... 

Good for you Frank.  My BC engine from 2007 had a huge scratch on the pilot deck.  Like Ron said, I wasn't going to plunk $800+ until they opened the box, and there was the scratch.  My LHS sent it back and two weeks later I got a new one.  At York, later that year I saw the scratched one at the MTH spare parts booth for $50 less than what I paid, they didn't even bother to touch it up! 

Like most things in life there is NO black and white here:

 

In my case with the Brute cars, I had two choices:

 

1. Accept a full refund, with NO replacement cars, since these were basically made-to-order for Brute owners, as they are too large for any other standard gauge engine. The paint issues likely occurred with ALL the production.

 

2. Keep the cars and do the touch-up work, which I did to MY satisfaction.

 

Keeping these cars does NOT make me less savvy than Ron (his snarky remarks aside). 

Well, what did I say the definition of insanity is???

 

There are enough repeated threads on this topic and the long delivery delays over the past several years that if you don't know better by now, then this is what you get. However, it is not what you deserve. And remember, this is just from the small number of people who care to contribute the forum.

 

I'm guessing that no one that reads this forum would accept a new $2,000 refrigerator with a big dent in the side or scratched paint, even though it's technically "new".

 

Unfortunately, the only thing you can do is vote with your wallets. Leave several containers of LCT on a shipping dock, and see what happens then. Of course they don't make the trains unless they get enough interest, or preorders...

 

Anyway, I'm glad Frank is willing to do without than put up with this. If the dealers start getting stuck, they quit ordering, and then the why's come into play, and then maybe things get fixed.

 

Rob English told me to stop trying to push originals on you guys, so please don't buy them, they come with 80 year old nicks and scratches. I'm sure you won't like them.

Last edited by jsrfo

Thank you all for your replies.

 

Here's an update.

 

I will be sending the three passenger cars to MTH once they provide an RA number. The dealer will give me a refund and he himself will receive a refund from MTH.

 

The dealer was great handling this. He could not believe that MTH's solution is a touch-up kit. He said his salesman spot checked various sets and that all of the cars have some degree of chipped or flaking paint.

 

Frank

Originally Posted by Ron Blume:

Understood Frank...I was not referring to you...the numerous threads on the Brute Cars actually were on my brain.  To be fair, I imagine there are many CUSTOMERS who  "sit" on that plank, awaiting the MTH baseball hitting the "target", dumping them into the pool of ACCEPTANCE.  I really think we all value our money differently.  To some, a couple thousand is chump change.  To me, it's a mortgage payment, grocery orders for a couple months, fuel for the car, etc.  Accordingly, I gotta hold the branding iron to the dealer's butt, and DEMAND total satisfaction.  This is just my opinion.  Art is right...NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!  Except, the more people that go with the flow, the less chance LCT will replace OUR trains!!! As far as I'm concerned, Mike Wolf can put that touchup paint kit... 

I agree Ron. I could not in good conscience "go with the flow". MTH is taking a shortcut to a problem and getting away with it. 

 

Frank

I have posted for years that our train mfgs. must be held accountable. Although I understand Art's stance there is no way I would have accepted those cars. I don't accept failure in any part of my life and I won't accept it with my trains. Little chips, it goes back, electronic problem, it goes back. If not 100% perfect and as advertised it goes back. Accepting shoddy work only leads to more shoddy work. No mfg. should get a pass on quality, do it right or don't make it at all.

I no longer buy from MTH. This because when my Brute finally arrived it had the typical paint chipping. Long wait, chipped paint = no further business, pretty simple from my point of view. I wanted the showroom cars but stuck to my guns about voting with my wallet, now Im glad I did.

 

I feel for the original poster, that picture looks awful. I have some original BC cars with less chipping than that...

I cannot believe this. There is no way in heck I would accept this set. I would not expect it if I paid $500 for the set. $1000 does not come easy, and to receive a product like this new out of the box is just totally unacceptable. My 1st inclination would be to contact Mike W. directly, and if that failed I would write him a lengthy letter, and consider the BBB. This is ridiculus!! Makes me want to reconsider any pre-orders.

 

JoeG.

Originally Posted by Trainlover160:

Thinking about it a little more, I wonder how Lionel would feel finding out this is the quality being received on products with their name on it!! They may not renew the agreement.

I would guess that this does not create much concern for Lionel, considering they too are having various QC issues that we see on these boards.  Based upon OGR postings Lionel and MTH seem to have the most frequent occurrences of some sort of quality control (paint, true to prototype/catalog description, damage, operation) problem.  It would be safe to say that both Lionel and MTH are making money from The Lionel Corporation Tinplate line that was created for MTH to produce Lionel named locomotives and their related pre-war type tinplate products.

 

Everyone has a different tolerance - sometimes proportional to the item's cost - for product quality.  I agree that the only way either company will take serious notice to the quality control issues, is if the customers and dealers send the product back for full refund.

My son was trying to help his father and do a good deed by plugging in the teather to make the loco ready for Christmas duty.  What I was getting at is the cost  not the action.   2 boards cannot cost half the price to produce the whole set and its packaging.  And what is a few oz. of paint to them as well and some shop time to satisfy a customer.  I was not blaming MTH for shorting out my boards my 10 year old son did .  First and formost it is a toy  an expensive one at that , what should I ground my son or forbid him from helping me with the hobby , absolutly not.  It was a simple mistake made by a helpful boy .  Maybe I should have watched him a bit better but who has not damaged something of their fathers .  I certainly have !  Now the loco has a electronic e unit  and a air whistle in its tender and I even have the smoke unit timed to the flywheel .  So it is no great loss other than that wonderful steam whistle recording I will miss.   This train will be his when I am gone and when he is servicing it and setting it up for his children ( God Bless ) he will think of his old man and the day it fried up in front of them .      This Forum is a great place for us to talk and help each other out with problems not pick our posts apart and insult each other.  We are all in a great hobby and should strive to keep it that way.

 

Glenn.

Last edited by GlennRJr

I am sure MTH will get it someday...most of us won't buy junk.  I used to feel guilty(embarrassed) asking a dealer to replace trains with minor/major nicks.  After this thread, I see I have lotsa company.  I guess it's pretty bad when someone has 80 year-old cars in better shape than ones made less than a month ago.  That kinda cuts to the chase!!!

Originally Posted by GlennRJr:

My son was trying to help his father and do a good deed by plugging in the teather to make the loco ready for Christmas duty.  What I was getting at is the cost  not the action.   2 boards cannot cost half the price to produce the whole set and its packaging.  And what is a few oz. of paint to them as well and some shop time to satisfy a customer.  I was not blaming MTH for shorting out my boards my 10 year old son did .  First and formost it is a toy  an expensive one at that , what should I ground my son or forbid him from helping me with the hobby , absolutly not.  It was a simple mistake made by a helpful boy .  Maybe I should have watched him a bit better but who has not damaged something of their fathers .  I certainly have !  Now the loco has a electronic e unit  and a air whistle in its tender and I even have the smoke unit timed to the flywheel .  So it is no great loss other than that wonderful steam whistle recording I will miss.   This train will be his when I am gone and when he is servicing it and setting it up for his children ( God Bless ) he will think of his old man and the day it fried up in front of them .      This Forum is a great place for us to talk and help each other out with problems not pick our posts apart and insult each other.  We are all in a great hobby and should strive to keep it that way.

 

Glenn.

You posted on a thread about MTH QC about your fried board and mentioned everything except the fact the damage was done by the end user. You are the one always blaming your son. You are the one claiming to have moved on yet keep bringing it up. You are the one stating when you are gone he will still have to think about the day the board fried.   

 

Edit Also, it is your train and not ours (something of there fathers). I never said a word about punishing the child you did. Then post about MTH not fixing there mistakes correctly when you will not fix yours.

 

Last edited by F&G RY

I will still buy MTH trains because no one can be perfect. This thread is about QC on Passenger cars. How many have paint flaws? .1 of one percent or a lot less.

 

The only thing MTH is guility of is offering a choice of a touchup kit or send back to be touched up. This is true in every case reported here and if they wanted there money back they could get it.

 

The cars should be fixed to a new finish. This means sanding the flaws masking and reapply the paint in the same manner it was applied at the factory. If the paint was baked on then the repair should be baked on etc..

 

This thread really rings true why pictures need to be posted to back up the words.

Originally Posted by dkdkrd:
 Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mike Wolf!

 

Ken/Deb

I know M. Wolfe kept tinplate out there after Williams, and Richart, S&V, etc, and was the only one truly successful at it, but I have to ask why buyers of modern tinplate have such adoration for him, and will kiss his *** for providing defective products.

 

I'd say from reading this forum that the defect rate is well above 0.1%, probably closer to 5%, and maybe higher. Completely unacceptable in this day and age, and if you keep accepting it, things don't get better. I know that sounds toxic, but go pick a thread, and in it, someone will be discussing the problems with their newly acquired train, tinplate, rail king, or scale stuff. It's not always paint, it could be a board or something else, but if you look at the total number of contributors that have a complaint, you just gotta wonder.

 

Originally Posted by jsrfo:
I'd say from reading this forum that the defect rate is well above 0.1%, probably closer to 5%, and maybe higher...I know that sounds toxic, but go pick a thread, and in it, someone will be discussing the problems with their newly acquired train, tinplate, rail king, or scale stuff...if you look at the total number of contributors that have a complaint, you just gotta wonder.

 

I suspect that the "defect" rate with MTH is not really any higher than it is with any of the other major manufacturers.  You have to look beyond what you may read--or choose to read--on the various online discussion forums because they tend to present a somewhat distorted view.  Folks who are satisfied with products rarely tout that fact, but those who experience a problem are rather quick to do so.  And since this is an operators-oriented forum (associated with an operator-oriented magazine), there simply may be an especially large number of MTH fans participating here.

 

I certainly am not trying to dismiss the fact that quality control issues exist and should be addressed, but such problems are not endemic to any one manufacturer.  I own or have owned several hundred locomotives from all of the major manufacturers over the past 15 years or so and have experienced just three out-of-box problems (all mechanical).  I buy all of my trains from dealers, just like anyone else here, and regard my overall satisfaction with all the products I've received as very good.  If/when there's a problem, either out-of-box or after some running, I have always had things corrected to my satisfaction.

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