Most of the modern buyers keep all the boxes including the shipping cartons, but it seems most of the PW original buyers, just threw them out. Why? Didn’t they think they had value? Some boxes in great condition are worth more than the trains themselves.
What were they thinking?
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Maybe because people 60 years ago were buying them for their kids, now guys buy them for themselves.
Or, maybe guys learned from the mistakes of others.
Many went to Boy Scout monthly paper drives. These are toys and for the most part a hobby. For some reason, many members of the Forum throw economics into their daily participation in the hobby. How do you know MOST OF THE MODERN BUYERS KEEP ALL THE BOXES INCLUDING THE SHIPPING CARTONS? I submit a small percentage of O gauge owners participate in this Forum.
Current value of a post war box is an after the fact occurrence. Law of supply and demand. John in Lansing, ILL
Scrambler81 posted:Maybe because people 60 years ago were buying them for their kids, now guys buy them for themselves.
Or, maybe guys learned from the mistakes of others.
I think that pretty well sums it up. Sixty years ago, no one knew that Lionel trains would become valuable collectors' items.
Who ever would have imagined that the box could be worth as much as the thing INSIDE the box.
Think about it....the reason all those "Post War" boxes are perceived to be so valuable today is because they were all thrown away when new. Back in "the day", Lionel trains were just toys, maybe expensive toys but never the less toys. The boxes got opened and the trains were played with. Most of the time they were played with hard and then just piled away in another carton until they came out again. Not too much thought about putting them all back in the original boxes. And even if you did, after a few times, the end flaps would tear off, the liners got ripped or misplaced.
I am typing this looking at a painting I have from Angela Thomas Trotter. It depicts a young boy and his Father back in the 50's...setting up a cool Lionel train "736" set he got for Christmas. The track got put together on top of the mohair carpet, the trains got put on the track and all the boxes are just thrown haphazard around the Parlor.
Fast forward to the 60's. Lionel trains are still the same but now I will bet the outcome of the boxes is the same. How many of us saved the little cardboard boxes that our Matchbox cars came in, how about that box for your Daisy BB gun. What about the special little cardboard box for your obligatory Boy Scout knife?
I know there are forum members who will read this and will be the first to say they always put everything "back in the box" when they were kids. I used to know a few of them. I dearly valued my Lionel 2016 freight set as a young man (still have it) but I never took the time to put everything back in the original boxes. Do I regret that decision? YES.
Fast forward to today. Based on what I wrote above, we are now all "conditioned" to save every last box, piece of cardboard, tissue paper, foam, tiny little plastic smoke tube and just about anything else associated with the purchase of our hobby items. It doesn't matter what they are, trains, diecast cars or trucks. It is all the same.
For me....I have a basement and an attic just chocked full of train boxes. Every last set box, car box, accessory box and anything associated with them. All the cheap, falling apart boxes for my die cast stuff and buildings. To me, years ago, I gave up on the notion that our trains are collectables and will have an exponentially increased value down the road "with all the boxes".
But I still save, even the wire ties that used to go around the passenger trucks.
Why? Because that is what we do....after all the boxes will be worth a lot more than the contents in another 100 years or so.
Just my opinion. I like to write and needed a little exercise.
Enjoy your trains!
Donald
I guess, hindsight is perfect on most subjects.
We always put the trains back into the boxes before getting packed away for another 11 months. Most of the boxes weren't necessarily made to survive for 60 yrs. The crane, milk car, dump car, and other heavier cars did not survive, but several did including the set box, ZW box.
For me keeping the boxes makes sense for easier storage and identification. My layout has no yard and nearly all the trains stay in boxes until called upon for service.
I don't respect saving all the boxes. I save those for rolling stock and some accessories that would mostly benefit from having a box to ship, but it annoys me. I have reconsidered saving some of the track, switch, and accessory boxes, and am thinning them out a bit.
The same reason baseball cards from the 50's are more valuable than those from the 80's onward. As stated above, a whole lot less survived back then. (the 1952 Andy Pafko story remains relevant - not a star player, but card number 1 in the set, so therefore made it to a lot of bicycle spokes in the 50's (when kids did that sort of thing) - so not too many good ones survived)
Or to put some perspective on it (and make me feel like I'm getting old! 
), the cards from the late 80's that I collected are almost as old now as the cards from the 50's were when I was into cards in the late 80's. My cards from the 80's will NEVER (even 100 years from now, most likely) be worth squat monetarily (much less ever approach 1952 levels), because EVERYONE kept them in good condition and saved sets/singles/etc.
-Dave
I do not have the luxury of room enough to store all the boxes. I save those from engines (except the very cheap ones) and any one I have an inkling might be worth something years from now. Which are few.
Everything else gets tossed. That’s reality at my place.
It's not just "toy trains", (put in quotes as they aren't toys any more). It's old fishing lures, original vw bug parts etc, it's pretty much everything. For some it's nostalgia, others it's "rarity", other things because we know it will fit, (yes, bug ref). As I am sure someone mentioned previously, supply and demand. That and some people are lucky enough to have more $ than brains.
We don't need 1/2 the stuff, (ie crap) we have, it's greed and marketing.
My rant, (what's 2 cents Canadian worth 2 you guys? $0.0075 cents lol).
I like to run my trains. I can’t run the boxes
Over the past few years weather patterns have changed and caused serious 100 yr flooding and storms.
I mention this because as of late I've seen many an auction selling very nice trains without boxes. (have made some great buys myself). Many advertise the styro insert but no outer box, no paper work.
I suspect the trains were lovingly displayed by their owners in doors, but the boxes were placed in attic, garage, or basement storage.
Roof leaks, humid damp garages and maybe damp or flooded basements have taken their toll.
I ve picked up a few cars at estate sales and had to chuck the boxes due to mold or mildew smell. I dont need to contaminate my box collection.
A good cleaning of the cars with soap and water and then airing out in direct sunlight gets rid of any contaminant and smell on the cars.
Boxes are a great food supply for any mold or mildew. Many people are unable to detect the smell of mildew. But to me it reeks offensive.
Most packaging comes from overseas. I have several cardboard containers that are approaching 20yrs old and were made in Japan, and they are beginning to deteriorate, literally disintigreat, the glue failed within a year or so and was reglued and taped.
Since today cardboard is made in China, and we have no idea what the binders are in their paper pulp, I would venture the material will fail to survive 50yrs unless really protected from moisture or temperature changes. (Maybe Chinese paper pulp is not as good as the old fashioned USA type).
I try to keep all the boxes but it is a never ending battle to find somewhere to store them. Most are in the attic in black contractor grade garbage bags. The Lionel orange seems to hold up better than the MTH black.
MTH black seems to (discolor?) Fade when exposed to high temps. Most boxes seem to dry out causing the glue on the seams to fail.
Just my 2 cent thoughts....
Only have modern trains, nothing you’d consider collectible, and I hate boxes. Toss them all except engine boxes. All of our stuff is on display either on the track or wall shelves.
Just unpacked all my buildings. Chucked the boxes.
MOST of my rolling stock is stored in plastic tubs. Maybe 35-40% are still in the original packaging. Most of my engines are in their original boxes.
I agree with most here. Boxes are a real PITA to store. I'm contemplating keeping only the boxes for locomotives. But someone mentioned plastic tubs for storing rolling stock. As one who does not have the room to run or even place everything I own on my layout, at the same time, the in and out of boxes will probably do more harm to the trains, not to mention boxes. So the tote or bin or whatever you call it is sounding better. I just put a bunch of boxes away today.....
Especially if your collection is in a basement- and really a must for a Crappy Basement (CB) storing in good plastic tubs is an excellent idea. Those walmWal sterilite 18 gal kind don't hold up too well but the black w yellow lid h.d. tubs from Costco are great-esp for storing railking diesels. They fit even with the o.e.m. box!
I've kept every box for any locomotive/rolling stock that I purchased with a box. I keep the boxes in plastic tubs under my layout. I don't have a huge fleet so it's manageable. I do pitch accessory/building boxes as I have no use for them.
This is my thought about modern train boxes. Saving the boxes of the modern trains do have a slight value, nothing like the collector value of pre and postwar train boxes, but when reselling a modern train, it'll bring a slightly higher value then if sold with out the box. It's not the value of the box, It gives the purchaser a physiological comfort thinking the seller took a little more care of the train because he consciously kept the box.
Old boxes are nothing but fire hazards, get rid of them.
Dave
According to Tom McComas, collectors originally only collected trains and accessories. There weren't all that many train collectors and they didn't care about boxes. As collectors filled out their collections they looked for something else train related to collect and that started box collecting.
I throw accessory boxes into the recycle bin. I only keep locomotive and rolling stock boxes. If that gets to be too much I'll recycle the rolling stock boxes as well. Our trains will never be worth what pre and post war trains were. Even those trains are dropping in value. I buy trains to enjoy them. Trains are a very poor investment.
I save all my boxes, but it has nothing to do with economics. As far as I am concerned, the package is part of the deal. Up until my mother threw it out when I was a teen, I had the box my first Marx set came in when I was 1. I was upset about the loss even then.
I also save packaging of power tools and many other items. I find that the boxes aid storage and organization.
justakid posted:Over the past few years weather patterns have changed and caused serious 100 yr flooding and storms.
Uh, no, not really. We had storms and floods 50 years ago and 100 years ago and 150 years ago and so on.
Moisture is a bane of cardboard, and construction methods approaching water-tight are relatively recent innovations, which change better explains the trend you are noticing.
I moved about 13 years ago, so I had to pack up all of my trains and toys, move them into storage while the house was built, then move them to the new house and stash them until I finished my basement. They must have been packed up for over two years. There is NO WAY I would have wanted to unravel all of that newspaper, paper towels or whatever else I would have packed them in, just to see what was inside. Everything went in its original box, so I could tell right away what was what. It certainly made my life easier.
If you ever contemplate selling your trains having the original boxes is a real plus. Potential buyers view boxed engines and rolling stock much more favorably then if they are stacked on top of each other in a storage tub. Boxes probably add 20% to the value of the piece.
we have been down this road many times, I have a use for those boxes...……...
palallin posted:justakid posted:Over the past few years weather patterns have changed and caused serious 100 yr flooding and storms.
Uh, no, not really. We had storms and floods 50 years ago and 100 years ago and 150 years ago and so on.
Moisture is a bane of cardboard, and construction methods approaching water-tight are relatively recent innovations, which change better explains the trend you are noticing.
Yep, and there are records of towns washed away completely.
There is a lot more "developed" flood plain today than 100 yrs ago. Alot more concrete and paved roadways.
Flood insurance is big business around rivers and tributaries here in the midwest.
More housing more people all over this country and record flooding in many areas over the last 10 yrs.
No argument. GOOGLE "record flooding".
Whenever you hear flooding in a residential area on the news reports odds are,.. theres probably a fellow hobbiest who lives in that area who may have lost property .....and trains to water damage.
Cardboard absorbes moisture, even if it doesn't get directly wet.
Boxes stacked on shelves in a basement with water on the floor will absorbe moisture from the dampness and begin to mold or mildew.
Here is a good post about moisture consequences
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ep-your-layout-clean
And another:
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