Hello.

I am starting a new layout, rather small.  I am using a cab-1 remote, command base, 2 tpc-300’s, a new BPC 6-14184,an amc and a sc-2.  I am using a post war ZW as my power source to the tpc’s.  I am running conventional engines. I have the track divided into 4 blocks and would like to run each block independently.  I have the tpc-300’s wired to the BPC as in the 1 BPC / 2 tpc configuration in the manual.  I have assigned blocks 1 and 3 to tpc 1, and blocks 2 and 4 to tpc-2 using the instructions in the BPC manual.  When I fire it up I toggle TR 1 and the engine on track 1 runs as expected.  Same with TR 2.  When I toggle TR 3 or 4 I get nothing.  I hope I am explaining myself well enough.  The BPC manual I have doesn’t say anything regarding acc 98 or 99 but I found a reference here on  this forum and have set my BPC to 98.  I understand this is the factory default.  I am getting a little dismayed and would appreciate any assistant you can provide.  Does anyone use this stuff still? I guess I should mention that a couple years ago I used this equipment on a much larger layout and it all worked.  I bought the new BPC thinking that it must have gone bad in storage but the brand new one is giving me the same result.  Thank you in advance.  Ron.

Original Post

Ill give it a go  did you set bpc blocks 1&3 as Tr-1 and Bpc blocks 2&4 as tr-2  I have never tried what your doing but am wondering if maybe above not done  or if the blocks need to be set as1&2 Tr-1 and 3&4 set as Tr-2 to function correctly? this should at least get the ideas going as to root cause of issue. let us know if this helps

StPaul

Thank you for your speedy response, toot toot.  I have tried a number of different assignments (settings).  Am I right by using the TR button when running an engine? This is not covered in the BPC manual.  It is however shown in the tpc manual. (Hit TR and the track #, then use the wheel to send juice to the selected track)  That leads me to believe that my BPC is either being ignored when I run the engine or it is being over-ridden by the tpc.  

I don't see where you can permanently assign a block to a TPC. It seems like the instructions say that you assign the BPC to ACC #98. And then you assign the addresses of the blocks to ACC 1 or whatever and the rest of the addresses follow what you chose...like say 1 and then the rest will be 2,3,4.

Then from there you can turn the blocks off or on using TPC 1 or 2 each time you address a block number. Like this...ACC, (address #), AUX 1, (TPC #). Or...ACC, (address #), AUX 1, 0 to turn it off.

And you are saying that you press ACC, 3, AUX1, 1, and nothing happens?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Thanks for replying cjack.

 Well I just tried what you suggested (acc, 3, aux1, 1). I then turned the red knob. Neither of the tpc’s responded.  I see where it doesn’t actually say you are permanently assigning a control of one block to a tpc. It would seem to me that you shouldn’t have to go thru all that each time but  I’ll try anything at this point.

I have the 12/01 version of the BPC manual.  It does not discuss the ‘98 or 99’ assignment.  The version on the Lionel site however does have added pages, version date 11/02.

 Yes I did first assign accessory id’s to the blocks.  I assigned 1 and assume 2, 3, and 4 were assigned. Then replaced the jumper.

so, you think that tr 1 or tr 2 work because I AM addressing the tpc directly.  Since the power is running from zw to tpc  to BPC to track that sounds weird.

 

That might be a clue. The BPC routes say the TPC 1  to the correct block (3), and then if the TPC is in Command mode, you have to do TK 1, Boost? Or if you are in Conventional, you just turn the red knob?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ok I'm thinking better now.

A TR on remote is what you set each tpc' I'd numbers to respond to as in tr-1 will connect that tpc to whatever track/ block I'd number you assingned to it on the bpc in your case it's tr-1 bpc track/ block 1 correct? 

So the second tpc should be connected to the other handle of zw and the other tpc 300 will be addressed as tr-2 here comes the part I'm not sure you can do this.

Is splitting only 2 each bpc track blocks to two separate zw handles.

on remote push Tr now on keypad push 1 now on remote lower area push the m on remote this selects conventional operation now push accessory button on remote then hit 1 on keypad now push aux 1 and then push the 1 again on keypad this assigns tr-1 to block/ track 1 to tr 1 only now do same steps above except replace the 1 on keypad with the 3 on keypad so both are now controlled by tpc tr1 and it's handle.

You said you tried tr3&4 but you don't have a third or fourth tpc.

Think of bpc like this bpc has 4 track outputs

numbered1-2-3-4

 Each is addressed as an accessory on the remote you address each track number then aux 1 then either push the 1 on keypad which connects that output to the tr1 only or you can push the 2 on remotes keypad and it will connect the tr-2 to that output only does this make sense to you best I can explain it.

 

 

 

StPaul

cjack posted:

That might be a clue. The BPC routes say the TPC 1  to the correct block (3), and then if the TPC is in Command mode, you have to do TK 1, Boost? Or if you are in Conventional, you just turn the red knob?

I think that’s what is supposed to happen. The BPC is just a set of relays so it seems they have to get a command from the system to operate. They then would route the juice as we have been discussing. It just isn’t happening for 3 and 4. I can hear the relays in the BPC ‘click’ when I key in the acc and aux commands. But when I turn the knob nothing happens. 

StPaul posted:

Ok I'm thinking better now.

A TR on remote is what you set each tpc' I'd numbers to respond to as in tr-1 will connect that tpc to whatever track/ block I'd number you assingned to it on the bpc in your case it's tr-1 bpc track/ block 1 correct? 

So the second tpc should be connected to the other handle of zw and the other tpc 300 will be addressed as tr-2 here comes the part I'm not sure you can do this.

Is splitting only 2 each bpc track blocks to two separate zw handles.

on remote push Tr now on keypad push 1 now on remote lower area push the m on remote this selects conventional operation now push accessory button on remote then hit 1 on keypad now push aux 1 and then push the 1 again on keypad this assigns tr-1 to block/ track 1 to tr 1 only now do same steps above except replace the 1 on keypad with the 3 on keypad so both are now controlled by tpc tr1 and it's handle.

You said you tried tr3&4 but you don't have a third or fourth tpc.

Think of bpc like this bpc has 4 track outputs

numbered1-2-3-4

 Each is addressed as an accessory on the remote you address each track number then aux 1 then either push the 1 on keypad which connects that output to the tr1 only or you can push the 2 on remotes keypad and it will connect the tr-2 to that output only does this make sense to you best I can explain it.

 

 

 

Tpc 1 is wired to zw post A. This tpc is assigned a tpc Id of 1.

Tpc 2 is wired to zw post D. This tpc is assigned a tpc id of 2.

What you have described above is exactly what the BPC manual instructs.

I have done this multiple times.  Cjack and I were discussing this also. 

This is as far as the instructions go. It seems that if these instructions had to be repeated every time a person wanted to address a different track they would throw the thing out and buy more tpc’s.

thank you for trying to be helpful.  There must be  someone on this forum who is running their trains with these.  

B6DB53E4-3248-4B89-B907-C9C68964D2CE

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ronald weatherby posted:
cjack posted:

That might be a clue. The BPC routes say the TPC 1  to the correct block (3), and then if the TPC is in Command mode, you have to do TK 1, Boost? Or if you are in Conventional, you just turn the red knob?

I think that’s what is supposed to happen. The BPC is just a set of relays so it seems they have to get a command from the system to operate. They then would route the juice as we have been discussing. It just isn’t happening for 3 and 4. I can hear the relays in the BPC ‘click’ when I key in the acc and aux commands. But when I turn the knob nothing happens. 

So your TPCs are set for conventional?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

RONALD WEATHER

okay each of the bpc outputs must be associated with either tr 1 or try 2 

to set each bpc tracks

1-2-3 or 4 you must address the bpc and each track number and set to be powered by tr 1 or tr 2

I have 2 tpc's and 6 bpc's so mine work fine!

now in your first post you said you already setup the bpc by removing that plastic cover on pins correct?

if so and tpc/ tr 1 is set to conventional now you need to address your bpc push accessory button on remote then push the 1 on keypad then push the aux1 now push  1  on remotes keypad this last part let's you connect tpc/ tr 1 to bpc track 1.

I know this is all confusing but it will work so just try setting bpc's track 1 to be controlled by tr 1 using steps above. once you get it working follow same steps and use each successive number to connect tpc/ tr1 to control track/outputs 1 &3 sosare controlled by tpc/tr1 

I can relate to the frustration as I was dumbfounded when I first tried getting all this setup and working and this was back when the tpc's and bpc's were first released.

hope this is more clear for you.

 

StPaul

also after aux1 is pushed and you select 1 on keypad you will hear a click that is the relay connecting play with this by toggling from 1 to 2 and back again as long as you don't push aux 1 or another button you can toggle back n forth infinately just so you know it is in fact changing.p

StPaul

Paul, 

yes I removed the BPC jumper pin cover then assigned acc 1, presuming 2, 3, and 4 were sequentially assigned by the BPC, then replaced the jumper cover.

so this is my understanding of the procedure;

Press acc - the command to start inputting  data to the bpc

Press 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 - the block of track I want to control

Press aux1 - opens the numeric keypad

Press 1 or 2 - assigns the block to one of the tpc’s.

Do you do this every time you run your trains?  

So, only one relay can be closed at a time? 

One other crazy question if I may, are the dat and com wires attached to your tpc’s?  The bpc manual doesn’t show them attached but I think they Lionel left them off the picture just for clarity.

thanks again for sticking with me. 

9925C2D1-5694-4CC5-BD2D-45A3C1AA1632 

 

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You have it correct on the how to address and set tpc's to each track block.

once you have the bpc and tpc's setup as you want both retain the settings so no more need to reset them.

only thing is when first powered up you have to address each tpc' and set to L for command or M for conventional operation but the bpc's will send power to tracks same as last time you used them.

now you can if you need to for some reason turn off each track by  pushing accessory then track number you wish to turn off then aux 1 then push the zero on keypad that will turn power off to that track only other 3 will still be powered

from command base connect a db-9 into the base the other end of red and green wires connect to dat and com on the tpc from there to the bpc day and com also bpc needs a separate power source connected to it. on page 3 of Lionel's bpc manual it tells how to hook it up and continues on page 4.

the manual for the tpc 300 my bpc's are not Lionel's mine are from the person whom originally created the tpc's anyways  my manual on page 9 talks of making your own db-9 connector and wired connected to correct pins  basically pin 5 is where green wire is soldered to and pin 2 is where the red wire connects to that's all it is. or you can by one from Lionel I think .

I added the 2 pages I refer to on the bpc and tpc hope I helped you get things working. next piece of advice once you get the hang of of setting it up write yourself a how to so at a later date a year or more you have a written example that makes sense to you on how to do this again and if by chance you decide to buy some mth engines be they ps1 ps2 there is a page in to manual that tells you how to run them using the tpc's you now have you  can run as conventional engines it cannot run them in command mode for that you need the full dcs command setup .

IMG_20190418_071549IMG_20190418_071519

 

StPaul

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looks good to me I never have set the stall voltage on my tpc's. unsure what you mean by red knob is now working? is your tmcc remote/base new or used? to verify red knob response the red light on command base should flash and or hold steady as you spin it.

have you noticed when you work with the bpc changing a setting that the green led light  will flash/shine brightly another way to verify its responding to commands from the command base.

do you now know what I meant about this being confusing as its not a matter of activating command base then you have to learn to setup and address the tpc and then comes getting the bpc setup but once you get the sequence of how things need to be it gets easier. just remember when this layout requires a second bpc all you need to do is daisy chain both dat/com and power wires to the next bpc. enjoy running your railroad now and if you decide to add the legacy base/remote its a matter of removing the one wire from tmcc to the legacy base and swapping around the cables you can in fact keep the tmcc command base connected via the main cable and use it in case the legacy base needs to be repaired I keep mine in play that way I can still run trains.

StPaul

Paul.  The knob on the remote didn’t respond at first but when I turned it off and then back on, it started working again.  I am considering legacy.  Maybe for Christmas? Lol. 

Here’s a side note.  If you are considering a new Atlas turntable 6999, beware that the wire diagram on page 4 is backwards.  The ground connection is on the right hand side.  Power on the left.  It’s posted by someone else on another thread but I  thought I would put it here also for those reading this.  Thanks again for the help.

Ron.

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