Brass prices

It's happening everywhere with the lack of train shows. Prices on everyone's favorite auction site have gone up as well.

Highway robbery in my opinion!  I see a couple of locos I purchased new in the '90s for $500-600 now being listed for $2100-2500. I know times are a changin' Bob Dylan but geez.  My salary has not gone up 500% in the past 25 years so I am going to have to take a pass on buying anything brass for quite some time.

Supply and demand dictate price in a free market.     So as mentioned, if the supply of such cars is getting small, the price will be going up as long as buyers want it.

Personally, I think the favorite auction site is not a good gauge of where prices are.    Some items sometimes go way up in bid price for no apparent reason.    We can only guess that some-two both must really want the item.

On the other hand, asking silly prices often means there are not bids.    Over a year go, someone listed an old Gem PRR F3 mogul for I think about 925.     The loco was damaged, the pilot broken off and maybe some other parts.    There was no tender.    That loco was never a popular seller from the time it was new.   I bought one brand new in late 70s for 355 at the local shop.    I still  have it.    But at shows when we still had them, I see that loco on tables asking 300-350 quite often in like new shape with tenders.     Now the one the auction site was never bid on, taken down and relisted 3-4 times at the same price.    That listing was just not a good representation of what that model might sell for.    

Fluctuations in pricing may be the product of competing trends in the market:  people buying brass train models are dying off (reduced demand) and the importation of brass models has declined drastically (reduced supply). Perhaps the up/down clash of those trends is causing swings in pricing.

I believe manufacturers like Sunset have also begun to shift over to exceptionally well detailed plastic models that run like the Dickens and can be sold for about 50-70% of the cost of brass. Most of us left in the "scale" game are operators and I would rather have something on my layout that actually goes like a banshee than something on my shelf that looks pretty but may not pull worth a darn.  I sold off the vast majority of my 30 year brass collection two to three years ago.  The handful of pieces I have left are either phenomenal runners or have sentimental value.

@Cadillac Mike posted:

Highway robbery in my opinion!  I see a couple of locos I purchased new in the '90s for $500-600 now being listed for $2100-2500. I know times are a changin' Bob Dylan but geez.  My salary has not gone up 500% in the past 25 years so I am going to have to take a pass on buying anything brass for quite some time.

Well, it's not highway robbery if people are willing pay it.  I just don't understand why.

@Cadillac Mike posted:

I believe manufacturers like Sunset have also begun to shift over to exceptionally well detailed plastic models that run like the Dickens and can be sold for about 50-70% of the cost of brass. Most of us left in the "scale" game are operators and I would rather have something on my layout that actually goes like a banshee than something on my shelf that looks pretty but may not pull worth a darn.  I sold off the vast majority of my 30 year brass collection two to three years ago.  The handful of pieces I have left are either phenomenal runners or have sentimental value.

But we are talking brass freight cars here. That does create a thought I have had more than a few times though, which is I cringe whenever I see a nice layout on youtube and all of the freight cars on it are old Weaver or other plastic crap.   

@mark s posted:

Fluctuations in pricing may be the product of competing trends in the market:  people buying brass train models are dying off (reduced demand) and the importation of brass models has declined drastically (reduced supply). Perhaps the up/down clash of those trends is causing swings in pricing.

IF there is reduced demand, it isn't showing up anywhere but the swap meets.

@prrjim posted:

Supply and demand dictate price in a free market.     So as mentioned, if the supply of such cars is getting small, the price will be going up as long as buyers want it.

Personally, I think the favorite auction site is not a good gauge of where prices are.    Some items sometimes go way up in bid price for no apparent reason.    We can only guess that some-two both must really want the item.

On the other hand, asking silly prices often means there are not bids.    Over a year go, someone listed an old Gem PRR F3 mogul for I think about 925.     The loco was damaged, the pilot broken off and maybe some other parts.    There was no tender.    That loco was never a popular seller from the time it was new.   I bought one brand new in late 70s for 355 at the local shop.    I still  have it.    But at shows when we still had them, I see that loco on tables asking 300-350 quite often in like new shape with tenders.     Now the one the auction site was never bid on, taken down and relisted 3-4 times at the same price.    That listing was just not a good representation of what that model might sell for.    

Yea, like that wood out of scale caboose that they want $144 for that has been listed for at least a year now.

I thought the "supply and demand" answer was right on the mark. A well-understood phenomenon in a free market.

@oscaletrains posted:

But we are talking brass freight cars here. That does create a thought I have had more than a few times though, which is I cringe whenever I see a nice layout on youtube and all of the freight cars on it are old Weaver or other plastic crap.   

And Atlas O cars are crap? Send me all you want.

Dick

@CBQer posted:

And Atlas O cars are crap? Send me all you want.

Dick

Some of them are.  You can't take car that some railroads or car owners had and letter it for every paint scheme under the sun. Well, I guess you can if people are willing to pay you money for "models" of cars that never actually existed in the first place maybe.  But, they certainly do look nicer than a lot of stuff that runs.  I was not trying to bash "plastic" per say, just pointing out that an otherwise beautiful layout/scenery seems marred by old crappy rolling stock sometimes. Sort of like the youtube videos of modern trains you see, where the nice engines roll by and then a train of pure garbage rolls on past on the screen, all the cars marred by "graffiti" painted on them by some worthless miscreant. Just destroys the whole effect for me anyway.

The brass O scale freight cars have always been hot. $325 for anything PSC in o scale has been pretty common for a long time. At one time I sold a door and a half outside braced 50' PSC boxcar on ebay I bought at Caboose Hobbies for $1200 that was 2010 or so. The modern top stuff like Pacific Limited, Drake, Kohs, Protocraft, RY, and on and on have always been strong and north of $450. Heck at one time in the last dozen or so years the days of buying US Hobbies brass cars for $75 has been a dream. I think the we saw the high water mark for anything brass in o scale 10-15 years ago. Its all downhill from here out for production. What we need is more manufacturers to step up like in HO such as Scale Trains, Rapido, Etc. We need the o scale community to grow.

As others have mentioned, I think it’s a culmination of a perfect storm coming together, it’s not just the brass market, we’re seeing it in the 3 rail market as well,..

* no train shows/swap meets.        
* folks stuck at home not spending money on meals or other entertainment.  
* captive audiences on respected auction/for sale sights ( not just the bay).  
* ( this would be specific to the brass market) hardly any “new” high end brass coming into the market save for 3rd Rail and some smaller operations.

* it only takes two buyers to make auction fever run ramped, and clearly there’s more than 2 on most pieces I’ve seen go through the roof,....sellers see this, and instantly see gold in dem dare hills,....that’s all it takes,...

Pat

@CBQer posted:

And Atlas O cars are crap? Send me all you want.

Dick

Hi Dick, I must say this, I am finished trying to sell Atlas frieght cars I can't give them away. Selling $60 MSRP cars for $15-20 and the buyers complain about the $25 in shipping that actually cost me $35. I brought back 125 cars to Jules Johnson 2 years ago and told him to find a new seller. I love these models and have many many but what happened here I have no idea. And those of you that tell me shipping is $5-$10 and expect them packed right and in 3 days please don't tell me I'm erroneous. The market is hostile anymore and I've dropped out of it. I won't sell things to unruly buyers anymore. I'll take my toys home and leave the sandbox. Hahah

I’ll take plastic “crap” off anyone’s hands that want to get rid of it.    When I expanded into O Scale a few years ago (HO model railroaders since grade school),  I needed rolling stock and locomotives, and the plastic “crap” was cheap, and readily available.  I haven’t spent more than $30 a per car, and my most expensive plastic locomotive was maybe $150?   I’m pretty happy with what I have, and feel no need to spend $400 on a brass freight car.  In fact, it was a plastic “crap” car that sealed the deal for the move into O Scale.  Just to see what it was about, I bought an Atlas 54’ Lehigh Valley covered grain hopper on eBay for $30.   Expecting a Lionel like toy, I was amazed.  The lettering was flawless, down to print so small, I’m not sure how they did.  Correct piping on the brake equipment, and the cherry on top,  grain doors that were actually hinged to open WITH working locking handles - in crap plastic.    Now, to be sure, 100 cars later, some of the Weaver grab irons, and other details, leaves something to be desired, and not every railroad owned Northeastern cabooses either, but I can work with them, sort of like I did years ago with the HO Athearn blue box stuff.   My bigger worry, isn’t that I can’t find plastic “crap” to start with, or scratchbuild what I need, but rather, I can’t find correct, O scale decals.   That is the real problem I’m having right now,  not the cost of brass, which I am too cheap to buy anyway.    

This is the third or forth plastic “crap” O scale car I bought.  Straight out of box, $25, with a little weathering.  Plastic on corner steps is a bit thick, but if I switched to prototypically correct Tichy, running in the club environment, they would have broken off, long ago, so I’m ok with that compromise.   The Weaver IC woodchip hopper to the left was weathered to get on the rails, so I’d have some trains to play with, but eventually I’ll circle back around and replace the molded grabs with wire.

h

I have know a few brass snobs who often considered anything non-brass to  be crap.   It is an opinion and I don't agree.    These people are probably collectors of some sort and not building model railroads where they might need 20-30 H21 hoppers to operate their coal service - - or they have very deep pockets.

A modern plastic detailed scale model such an Atlas master LIne is better detailed than a lot of the older brass.   For example, an H21 hopper has all the inside rivet details what not while a USH or MG model of the same car has just reverse of the details on the outside.

Brass does have the advantage of much smaller runs, so unique cars for smaller RRs can often be produced and sold.   With the mass produced cars, they need much bigger runs to justify the tooling for injection molding or die casting.

However, the market for all O does seem to shrinking and many of us have most of what we "need" so much  of what we buy is targets of opportunity - ie really good deal, or some special we have wanted for years.

@Cadillac Mike posted:

Highway robbery in my opinion!  I see a couple of locos I purchased new in the '90s for $500-600 now being listed for $2100-2500. I know times are a changin' Bob Dylan but geez.  My salary has not gone up 500% in the past 25 years so I am going to have to take a pass on buying anything brass for quite some time.

I guess you didn't go for the brass baldwin transfer units by CLW either.

@Erik C Lindgren posted:

The brass O scale freight cars have always been hot. $325 for anything PSC in o scale has been pretty common for a long time. At one time I sold a door and a half outside braced 50' PSC boxcar on ebay I bought at Caboose Hobbies for $1200 that was 2010 or so. The modern top stuff like Pacific Limited, Drake, Kohs, Protocraft, RY, and on and on have always been strong and north of $450. Heck at one time in the last dozen or so years the days of buying US Hobbies brass cars for $75 has been a dream. I think the we saw the high water mark for anything brass in o scale 10-15 years ago. Its all downhill from here out for production. What we need is more manufacturers to step up like in HO such as Scale Trains, Rapido, Etc. We need the o scale community to grow.

Wait, what?  Someone paid you $1200 for a brass 50' PSC boxcar?