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Some early prilimiary sketches showing some thing about the engineering. I worked closely with a retired civil engineer who helped me create a scene that would be accurate but also visually interesting. Patterned after several St Vrain crossings I think we have a solution that will be visually stimulating as well as functionally authentic.  Era is 1950's... 

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Erik,

Congratulations. Excellent example of using numerous freehand sketches to visualize bridge scene prior to actual construction. Shift angle in rail right-of-way adds a lot of visual interest to the overall scene. Wish more people would adopt your sketch technique before attempting to build their layout scenes. 

Bridge design and details very convincing!

Very nice Erik.  Here, east of the big muddy, we often see remnants of older bridges aside of newer and larger ones.  Many times all that remains of the older bridge is the stone bridge piers in the body of water (if it's not navigable). 

Interesting sidelight, when Newark Bay was dredged thirty years or so ago to make it more accessible for larger vessels, they did underwater demolition to get rid of the footings/ middle piers from the old Jersey Central draw bridge (which was actually twin lift bridge spans).

Kewl stuff and a sweet bridge, that OMI piece.  Wished I could justify one.

Too bad Train Cat won't make a shorter (25'-40') version of their very common AmBridge plate girder bridges in O scale.  Yes, I did ask several years ago but was warned not to get pushy or the owner will just ignore you.

Those would be AWESOME for yours and for many projects.   The capture the feel of the real built-up nature of these perfectly.

As a bridge troll, I can tell you just when you think you've seen it all with respect to bridges, you come across something you thought you'd never see. There was an old Pacific Electric steel truss bridge in San Bernardino across the Santa Ana River that started out as a wooden trestle. On the south side of the bridge, the trestle pilings were all in place leading up to the concrete footings for the steel bridge. Best guess is that the bridge got washed out in one of the floods that hit that river (one in 1938 took out the trestle on the ATSF Redlands Loop). Somewhere I have photos I took a couple of years before they took down the bridge to make an access road (a less attractive concrete highway bridge). I've even seen bridges built from decommissioned 89-foot flat cars. Go figure.

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Erik, it looks like John is deep in thought thinking this scene would look so much better with about 4 or 5 Lionel girder bridges in a row.  So to help you guys out I would be willing to send you a 1/2 dozen of those and since you won't be using the 2 bridges pictured I think I might find a home for them. Seriously that scene really is looking super. Don't forget Scale City Designs has bridge shoes avail if you need them for the girder bridge if you don't want to take me up on the more than fair trade I offered.

Erik C Lindgren posted:

I'm blushing Matt 

oh it's completely prototype and a complete story line behind it. When I get time I will elaborate. 

 

Thank you 

Makes me want to revisit a spot on the old Redlands Loop where the ATSF line paralled the SP line to Crafton. There were two small bridges across a creek -- one a full wooden trestle (ATSF) and the other more modern for the SP line (probably wood with concrete footings. The ATSF trestle is a ruin but is still there; all that's left of the SP bridge is the footings.

Eric....I have that same through plate girder bridge but in black.   What a beautiful model!    I've talked to Peter through that famous auction site about doing these with square end girders, and he is going to look into possibly doing these at some point in time........   Please keep us posted with pictures as you make progress in your project.

Erik and i discussed some ideas and he made a sketch (above) and i set out to design and build the modules to support it.  Comments were made about prototype accuracy,  so Erik did some research.  Guess we didn't miss it by much judging from the photos he found.  Stay tuned,  there may be a 3rd rail in the picture yet!  Prototype: Alamosa/Antinito line of the D&RGW,  San Luis valley branch.

AGHRMatt posted:

Erik:

Do you have any photos of the framing under the foam in the bridge module set? I'm curious how the foam is supported.

I responded to John for you he will likely show you what's involved in the design. 

This is from his article about the engineering earlier last year:

Lightweight Module Construction

A little history here will explain why this type of module construction came to be. Forty years ago N Trak was breaking a lot of new ground with the idea of modular layouts. They could be set up and displayed in many venues previously unavailable, like shopping malls. The hobby shop with the layout in the front window was getting rare and shopping malls were the the new meccas of retail trade. A lot of modeler got their start with these groups.

My club at the time was building a HO layout based on Marin County railroads in an old dairy barn. We decided to build a modular layout to display at the county fair. Construction was based on the N Trak standards, 1x4s with 1/2” plywood top. Sturdy but not very light. Legs were an issue as it was difficult to prevent swaying when they were leaned upon without getting involved with a lot of bracing. I even drilled lightning holes in th 1x4 crossmembers (actually 1/2”x4” plywood) in an effort to cut some weight. Later the 2x2” legs were replaced with 3/4” EMT conduit with angle braces to improve stability. Both efforts were marginal improvements.

My next effort was based on 1/4” plywood. Sides and ends were laminated with extra plys where the strength was needed. Legs were folding 2x2s. Not bad, it was lighter and easier to set up but still not quite right.

With my move to Colorado and switching to 1/4” scale came the opportunity to start over. Everything module effort to date had multiple toos problems:
too heavy
too fragile
too difficult to set up

Experimenting with a portable F scale layout introduced some new ideas. First to go was the legs, simple sawhorses under the joints replaced attached legs. Set up time was dramatically reduced. Next to go was the bolts/C clamps tyeing the modules together.

 

 

 

 

to continue about construction of modules:

We use spring clamps w/ locating dowels between sections,  quick and easy.

Actual module is 2" insulation extruded foam (not white beaded stuff) that comes in pink or blue,  depending on manufacturer.  Default module width is 22".  Beam strength is provided by 2 3/4" strip of 5mm underlayment plywood on each side.  End boards a 3/4" lumber to provide strength for dowels & clamps.  Stringers of 3/4x3/4 wood are used about every 12" to control sag between sides.  This is where the 2 3/4" side depth comes from.  Titebond used for wood/wood joints,  foam/wood joints are secured w/ our secret ingredient, Gorilla glue!  This results in a bonded structure that resists twisting and bending.  A 5' module will support my weight in the middle (165#) with very little sag.  A bare module weights appox 5#.  #12 bare copper busses are strung under the track for feeders,  SAE 4 prong plugs (trailer connectors) connect each module.  Two Pony 2404 or equivalent spring clamps grip lower lip at joints where a lightweight sawhorse supports the joint. 

Two plywood boxes (24x24x40") were added to the center of each side of our 9x35' layout for added stability.  A casual bump doesn't phase it.  They also serve as control stands and power centers.  A fixed clamp joins two modules on top and electrical connectors tie into the buss.

We will work on making a video of the construction process.  Construction time is about an hour of actual work,  added time for glues to set.  Assembly is done on a fixture to insure squareness and assist clamping.  Further questions can be submitted to our website: coloradooscale.org,  contact us form.

Setup time for 16 modules is about an hour for one person,  longer with help.  Track ends at module edge,  rails are soldered to screws or nails in the sub-roadbed (spline).  This method has been in service for over a year (5 shows) w/o any problems.

 

 

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Showing the authenticity in these fine brass bridge models. 

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Timber supports will be in place of the red painted piers in this photo. 

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Flex track laid in place for reference only  

John johnson has begun the track work phase of the bridges. We ordered Mt Albert bridge ties and other lumber for the project. 

Bill of Materials 

MA335P24 8x14 will double up for 14x14 pile cap 
MA342P24 10x18 stringers 
MA319P24 3x12 sway bracing 
MA322P24 4x8 guard timber 
MA324P24 4x12 shoring timbers 

MA382 8x8x10' bridge ties (500) 

Dowels will suffice for the bridge piling. 

We continue .... 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Thanks guys...

Johnson wants to hand lay with tie plates doing the trackwork. I agreed, I used Monster Model Works per Johnson's request. They had the tie plates that Johnson wants or meets his expectations to his custom made spikes.

I would also like to recommend Right of Way for track spikes and tie plates however Johnson could not find the square opening variety he was after at ROW.  Jay Criswell at Right of Way will be supplying us with all the rest of the trackwork detailing. I will be generating a BOM for him this week. 

 

These are the tie plates offered by Monster Model Works:

AEE0FE96-F3EC-47FD-906D-28CD4FF54D13-6814-00000DA3E302B9CF_tmp

http://monstermodelworks.com/o...-138-148-8-hole.html

This is an opportunity for Johnson to bring his enthusiasm with P48 in on this project. When the exhibit is set up the viewer is close enough to the model inches at times that leaving off crucial trackwork detail such as tie plates is blasphemous, for a lack of a better word. 

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I hope this project will be pleasing to the viewers and history buffs.. oh and the toy train enthusiasts. 

I will be back with more, the saga continues. 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Hi Bob,

From my research the walkways were originally designed for crews and if the bridge was within range of a turnout for the obvious reasons, cutting cars and the like. The placement of the bridge on the layout is not within range of a turnout in our simulation. Furthermore a walkway encourages trespassing and walking the span. It was decided to drop the walkway assembly as it was easily removed and I suspect intentionally left that way for this reason from MS models Korea. I think the bridge will look far better without the walkway as most of the bridges I've seen in this design don't have them any longer and this holds true into my era of modeling the 1940's and 50's. Thank you for asking Bob I really appreciate the comment. 

Erik

Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Experimenting with some of the filters on the ties. Generally when a railroad does any replacement of the ties they do them all at the same time.. however they do split in a short amount of time and dry out to some extent. Showing this as it would have been in the 1940's and 1950's on a 25 year old span will be rather straightforward. 

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We have removed the original walkways from the truss bridge and are building a new deck using D&RGW standards for timber decks from the 40's.  Lumber is Mt. Alberts Scale Lumber (nice stuff) stained with felt tip pens (water based).  First black,  then texturing with a hacksaw blade.  Any fuzz is scraped/sanded off then a brown stain (touch up pens) is applied.  It's subtle,  but gives multiple hues to color.  Experimenting with a white felt tip pen to lighten without filling texture.  Deck assembly about half way across and moving along well.  Assembly delicate but not too fragile to handle so far.  Using Titebond glue which gives a little flexibility over the brittle bond of CA adhesives. 

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks guys...

Johnson wants to hand lay with tie plates doing the trackwork. I agreed, I used Monster Model Works per Johnson's request. They had the tie plates that Johnson wants or meets his expectations to his custom made spikes.

I would also like to recommend Right of Way for track spikes and tie plates however Johnson could not find the square opening variety he was after at ROW.  Jay Criswell at Right of Way will be supplying us with all the rest of the trackwork detailing. I will be generating a BOM for him this week. 

 

These are the tie plates offered by Monster Model Works:

AEE0FE96-F3EC-47FD-906D-28CD4FF54D13-6814-00000DA3E302B9CF_tmp

http://monstermodelworks.com/o...-138-148-8-hole.html

This is an opportunity for Johnson to bring his enthusiasm with P48 in on this project. When the exhibit is set up the viewer is close enough to the model inches at times that leaving off crucial trackwork detail such as tie plates is blasphemous, for a lack of a better word. 

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I hope this project will be pleasing to the viewers and history buffs.. oh and the toy train enthusiasts. 

I will be back with more, the saga continues. 

Products used seem to have been supplied.   Any info on technique/tools used?

I don't stop in at OGR as often as I used too. Here is a little update on the bridge exhibit. 

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John hitting the text books with the standards manual.. again and again. 

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Scale lumber

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before fitting the guard rails in the Open Plate Deck. Thanks to Right Of Way and Jay Crisswell for these little tidbits; couldn't have done it without you bud! 

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Some of the left over jewelry.. makes for great scenery additions. 

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Bridge feet brought to this project proudly by Scale City Designs! Marty we LOVE your stuff. 

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Coming up the wood section of the project. 

I hope you have enjoyed riding along with this project as much as I have. 

 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
teddymich posted:

Erik and John,

Great work, great photography, terrific project.  I have been following this project from the beginning.  John,  I love those O scale dial calipers that appeared in one of the photos.  Where can I purchase one ?

Thanks.

Ted Michaels

The 1/4" scale dial caliper was purchased many years ago at Caboose Hobbies in Denver CO.  It was produced by GENERAL  maker of measuring tools (scales, calipers, etc.).  Sure makes measuring wood easy.  Only calibrated down to 1/2",  but that's plenty good for structure work.

john

Pingman posted:
Erik C Lindgren posted:

Thanks guys...

Johnson wants to hand lay with tie plates doing the trackwork. I agreed, I used Monster Model Works per Johnson's request. They had the tie plates that Johnson wants or meets his expectations to his custom made spikes.

I would also like to recommend Right of Way for track spikes and tie plates however Johnson could not find the square opening variety he was after at ROW.  Jay Criswell at Right of Way will be supplying us with all the rest of the trackwork detailing. I will be generating a BOM for him this week. 

 

These are the tie plates offered by Monster Model Works:

AEE0FE96-F3EC-47FD-906D-28CD4FF54D13-6814-00000DA3E302B9CF_tmp

http://monstermodelworks.com/o...-138-148-8-hole.html

This is an opportunity for Johnson to bring his enthusiasm with P48 in on this project. When the exhibit is set up the viewer is close enough to the model inches at times that leaving off crucial trackwork detail such as tie plates is blasphemous, for a lack of a better word. 

236F377B-17DB-4AAE-8E9C-18FBD356C851-6814-00000DA3D59B122D_tmp96C46DC6-361E-4403-8706-A39419B534E5-6814-00000DA3CD101567_tmp

I hope this project will be pleasing to the viewers and history buffs.. oh and the toy train enthusiasts. 

I will be back with more, the saga continues. 

Products used seem to have been supplied.   Any info on technique/tools used?

Working on plate girder and trestle deck structure i came up with a trick to make laying rail easier.  I glued the tieplates in place using a straight edge to align them.  Just a little dab of glue to keep them from squirming around while spiking.

Spikes are cut from staples (Swingline SF-1 Sharp Point) using an old pair of 7" diagonal cutters.  Grind down the closer face to adjust the spike head length.  Hold a small group (6 or less) staples against the face and cut.  They will be a little long for bridge work (see pictures posted elsewhere in this thread) but cutting them shorter is no issue and the cut will yield a cutting edge just like the big ones.  Spiking pliers are a couple of homemade  4" long nose pliers modified with grooves in the jaws to help hold the spikes.  Also use a pair of Micro Mark spiking pliers by Xuron.  The grooves are about twice to large but it does seem to be a problem when using the longer spikes.  The Xurons are great,  now if i can just reduce the groove size a little! 

I use Rust Olem Red Oxide primer for the rails.  After laying rail,  Joe's Model Trains Custom Flat Acrylic for rusty rails for painting tieplates, spikes and general touch up.

Spiking is done by anchoring ends, then middle,  then splitting sections until all ties done.  This helps avoid misalignments as the driving of spikes can move rail sideways.

Hope these tips help.  The hardest part of handlaying is getting started.  I speend as much time screwing around with flex track trying to get it to look and run right as i do handlaying.  And that includes turnouts!

john

Incredible shot of an awesome engine!

I searched for in the history of french steam locomotive but not found a cab forward; according to what I have read, it avoided the engeener not to be troubled by the smoke in the tunnels, is that right?

It's funny, this engine looks like riding always backwards!

jpv in France

John is nearly ready to deliver the bridge ready for scenery! It’s been a long process and worth every effort. John and I have obsessed over every minute detail found in the prototype and the results are astonishing. A true museum exhibit quality section for the LT&N. 

John’s wife snapped these images last night in his shop as both he and I are very excited for the first Trains to pass over the span! 

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Thank you Joe!

John wrote this earlier today:

NOTICE!

This display is a project in progress. Please limit remarks to acclamation or suggestions for scenic details.

Details of bridges and supporting structures are well researched and documented. Scene is designed to depict a river crossing by a Front Range short line that replaced a trestle used by the preceding narrow gauge railroad. The east end was washed out by a flood during WWII and wartime restrictions dictated use of available materials rather than new construction. The plate girder bridge was used to span the new channel formed by the flood. It was salvaged from a class 1 road and the trestle approach repaired. A pile pier was used on the east end for speed and economy.

Bridge deck structures and trestle follow D&RGW standards. Guard rails are fully spiked as per D&RGW standards.

The cut on the west end is narrow by Standard gauge standards, but it was excavated by a narrow gauge railroad and with no demand for oversize clearances, it was never widened. Short lines are notable for their economics.

The display breaks down into two five foot modules after the through truss is removed. The modules and legs weight appox 50#.
The structure will support a 200# load without damage.

Project progress photos can be viewed on the Colorado o Scale Modelers web site: www.coloradooscale.org

Under construction are new end curve modules of 76” radius to allow smoother operation of larger equipment. The original curves are appox. 54” radius with easements. These were an experiment to test the lightweight (less than 20# per module) construction. After 10 years and over thirty public displays the design has proven itself.

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
John Sethian posted:

I am looking forward to how you guys do the water.  A few explanatory sentences would be appreciated!

John, if I had the spare time I would be far more elaborate in my posts as I was in the past. I now have 2 little ones and they command most of my time and I spend my free time producing work rather than writing about it of late. I will in time produce articles maybe a series for a magazine as I’ve been asked in the last 3 months however in the meantime I will share what I can on here and keep it brief, sadly. I do however love your devotion John to the material you produce on OGR they should honestly pay you. Tonight I’m producing the power lines for the river crossing so I am making this as stated above, brief but not without thanking all of you guys for the appreciation and kind support. I think that’s why I participate here. It sure isn’t for the pay grade.  

Bill,

Our initial plan was to operate the section in the layout at the NNGC37 however we ran behind schedule a little and we are only going to display the section alongside the LT&N. We plan to debut the section in operation on the LT&N at the December Boulder Train Expo. I will have been able to finish up scenery and the river bed. 

 

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Look at all those cast details from Scale City Designs!!

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
Erik C Lindgren posted:

Bill,

Our initial plan was to operate the section in the layout at the NNGC37 however we ran behind schedule a little and we are only going to display the section alongside the LT&N. We plan to debut the section in operation on the LT&N at the December Boulder Train Expo. I will have been able to finish up scenery and the river bed.

Propah Modelin'  

Thank you Max, Dick and Bill! 

Review of conceptual illustrations

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Details of bridges and supporting structures are well researched and documented. Scene is designed to depict a river crossing by a Front Range short line that replaced a trestle used by the preceding narrow gauge railroad. The east end was washed out by a flood during WWII and wartime restrictions dictated use of available materials rather than new construction. The plate girder bridge was used to span the new channel formed by the flood. It was salvaged from a class 1 road and the trestle approach repaired. A pile pier was used on the east end for speed and economy.

Bridge deck structures and trestle follow D&RGW standards. Guard rails are fully spiked as per D&RGW standards.

The cut on the west end is narrow by Standard gauge standards, but it was excavated by a narrow gauge railroad and with no demand for oversize clearances, it was never widened. Short lines are notable for their economics.

The display breaks down into two five foot modules after the through truss is removed. The modules and legs weight appox 50#.
The structure will support a 200# load without damage.

 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Thanks for the compliments and interest in our little project.  Progress has been slow because of lack of work space and trying to make the removable bridge over a module joint simple and foolproof.  Took over the garage for several weeks and finally got the basics built,  at lease enough so Eric can start working his magic.  Ours is a near perfect partnership,  I make a mess and he makes it look FANTASTIC!! 

We have discussed doing some articles or a column,  nothing firm yet.  Meantime follow our progress here on our website:  www.Coloradooscale.org

Have been using crates to transport modules but standing on edge was rough on scenery.  Cart roll off trailer and to display area without much effort.  Getting too old to work all that hard.  Wheels are Rubbermaid cart replacement casters, 5" wheels roll easily on carpet, rated at 500#.  

Bridge a big hit at 37th NNGC, it was fun but many hours.  

“Many hours” is an understatement.. management put at least 5 world class layouts in a “public” space open 24 hours with one gaurd. After show closed the general public including Denver’s finest to have free roam.. and within 10’ of these layouts are doors to parking lot. Real cute, removed all valuables every night and couldn’t leave layouts unattended for 4 straight looong days. 7am - 10pm. Not happy at all however the show was excellent otherwise  

 

 

 

The Bridge section was incredibly popular. It was nice visiting with folks like Tony Koester, David Stewart, Merlyn Lauber, and Jimmy Booth about the project. Several times we were asked to enter it in the contest. Maybe the next Convention when I’m finished with the scenery detail  

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The Longmont Terminal & Northern exhibited very well at this venue despite the poor security conditions. We had a nice time at the 37th Annual National Narrow Gauge Convention 

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Myron Cunningham was an excellent crew chief 

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Old friends like Fred Douge and Merlyn Lauber from Cedar Falls, Iowa 

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The fine gentleman on the left is a profound modeler and what a great privilege to be able to gain from his experience and knowledge. 

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Mr Booth of Glacier park Models 

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Greg Posta and Bob Meyer 

Thanks Bob for helping out this week! 

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 Crowds all week

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
John p. Johnson posted:
Engineer-Joe posted:

Hey, you can't do that! 

No fun in 2 rail I was told.

Rivet counting is allowed though. 

We don't encourage counting,  but checking size, shape and spacing is ok.  It's a hobby everyone can enjoy!  

John, I even caught a 3 trailer (railer) *iphone spellcheck.. among the Narrow minded! John Gardberg runs our local TCA venue and he is also a fan of quality modeling. 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Progress report on bridge modules:  Wiring and trackwork is done,  bridge lifts off for transport without any plugs or rail joint fuss.  Test run performed flawlessly on first try.  Will deliver to Erik this week for the scenery treatment.   Still shooting for Dec.  BMRC train show for the big introduction.  All i have to do now is built the 10' of balancing modules and carts.  Are we having fun yet?

I’m doing it! Started today on scenery. Johnson delivered the bridge to my workshop this morning. 

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John is a machine! He did it all; no corners were cut anywhere. 

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Heat and Cinder shields per Rio Grande standards simulated fastening in place  

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J hook bolts hold the deck down per prototype standards 

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All correctly placed and sized NBW and bolts washers and fasteners per Rio Grande Standard 

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Resin cast piers are exactly what I wanted them to turn out like. Hey look are those Scale City Designs feet? Why yes they are!! 

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Just right just like the prototype we are going for. That ever so slight wriggle in the track. John this is incredible; museum exhibit quality for certain. 

 

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Small correction:  pier and abutment were cut from MDF (old treadmill base),  not resin castings.  Very stable material.  Used table saw on slight angle to mill sides (use EXREME caution when doing this kind of stunt).  Painted an off white color,  applied light wash of acrylic paint to get reddish hue then used India ink/alcohol mixture for rust streaks.  Found most of the color in concrete is the sand as the cement flakes away over time,  thus the reddish hue (it is Colorado!).  Erik has already ballasted the track and started ground textures.  I just dropped the modules off at his place YESTERDAY! 

The bridge is removable for transport.  Installed wipers on the top of the pier/abutment and contacts on the bottom of bridge.  Worked perfectly on first try.  Bridge literally drops in place with no plugs or joiners to mess with.  Takes longer to get it out of the box!

Next project:  10' of modules to balance bridge.   Think Gramps refinery!

Sorry about that John 

I had a good day of progress; it’s all timing for the adhesives to set so I’m glad I was able to get some basic ground treatments in before I begin the static grasses and dimensional work in place. 

Martin, I made many attempts today over on O S T with no luck uploading. My screen goes all blank and keeps telling me to wait for 1 minute to help you avoid spam. 

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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