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I recall seeing somewhere, I think in a post b Ron H., about using 2-rail track and adding an N scale rail spiked down the center to minimize the height of the power rail...

 

Is this true?  Anyone have pictures of this and/or the process that they use?  How about products to look for? Is there 2-rail track with wood ties?

 

Thanks,

Mario 

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Originally Posted by Ron H:

Marker and I have both done a series on this subject. Just search atlas 1/48 2 rail to 3 rail I believe. When you see my pictures of trains running by a cliff that is all 1/48.

photo [1)

 

I knew you did, Ron!  My memory hasn't failed me, yet.

 

Do you have a problem with 3-rail flanges bouncing along the ties?

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

PS - Is that a K-Line Hudson with extra details?  I think you did that in a separate post, can you share the link?  How about the scale pilot wheels?

Last edited by CentralFan1976

"I recall seeing somewhere, I think in a post b Ron H., about using 2-rail track and adding an N scale rail spiked down the center to minimize the height of the power rail...

 

Is this true?"

 

    I don't think it would be worth the trouble. you'd still have to ramp up to normal rail height for the rollers to get thru turnouts and crossings. Seems like it would be easier to just switch to 2 rail if the center rail bothers you? ....DaveB 

Originally Posted by daveb:

"I recall seeing somewhere, I think in a post b Ron H., about using 2-rail track and adding an N scale rail spiked down the center to minimize the height of the power rail...

 

Is this true?"

 

    I don't think it would be worth the trouble. you'd still have to ramp up to normal rail height for the rollers to get thru turnouts and crossings. Seems like it would be easier to just switch to 2 rail if the center rail bothers you? ....DaveB 

 

DaveB,

 

I think you're right, it would be easier, but no.

 

Thanks,

Mario

Last edited by CentralFan1976

Yeah, what are you guys going to do when battery power and command control become the norm?  Use a plastic center rail?

 

If you like the center rail, it is easy enough to add in any size rail, or even square stock.  As noted above, rather than modify miles of track, it is easier to convert your rolling stock to 2-rail.

 

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

Originally Posted by bob2:

Yeah, what are you guys going to do when battery power and command control become the norm?  Use a plastic center rail?

 

 

If you like the center rail, it is easy enough to add in any size rail, or even square stock.  As noted above, rather than modify miles of track, it is easier to convert your rolling stock to 2-rail.

 

 

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest,

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest

 

There is no reason why they can not coexist on the same layout if you like all of your traditional 3 rail stuff. 

 

Did folks sell off all of their Postwar and Conventional trains when DCS and TMCC came to town?  Most likely they figured out how to run it all.

 

The only folks I can see selling it off are those who despise the 3rd rail.  Someone brand new into the hobby, might go 100% to the 2 rail RC route as well.

 

Ron

 

 

Originally Posted by Ron045:

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest

 

There is no reason why they can not coexist on the same layout if you like all of your traditional 3 rail stuff. 

 

Did folks sell off all of their Postwar and Conventional trains when DCS and TMCC came to town?  Most likely they figured out how to run it all.

 

The only folks I can see selling it off are those who despise the 3rd rail.  Someone brand new into the hobby, might go 100% to the 2 rail RC route as well.

 

Ron

 

 

You might note I stated "could".  I know all too many that did sell off their nest egg and go totally 2 rail.

 

I still have a level of hand laid code 148 3 rail just to run my pre-war stuff and some other oddities....

Great post Mario - a subject dear to my heart!

 

Personally, I like what Marker and RonH have done with using Atlas 2 rail and adding the smaller center one. The photos posted from the Hagersville Museum layout appear awkward with the risers - not needed from what I understand.

 

I've experimented with Atlas 3R and ScaleTrax  and replaced the oversized center rail of the Atlas with the inverted T from ScaleTrax and it looks much better than the stock Atlas track. As much as I've been a proponent of ScaleTrax over the years, I find that the tie spacing still bothers me so much that I've sold at all off. If able to rebuild I will have to decide which system to go with.

 

Even thought about 2 rail as the stuff is beautiful but I like my Lionel locomotives which as far as I know can't be converted to 2 rail... 

Last edited by c.sam

"Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?"

 

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails? and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail? If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

I am actually going to be sending one of my non functional MTH 0-8-0 switchers (sounds work but it won't move) out to be converted to Battery power for a test. I'll be using RCS new england. If it works, as well as I think it will, that's probably where I'm headed. Goodbye stupid mth dcs sytem forever. Also goodbye shorts, sparking, track power problems and any other myriad of problems.
 
I'm thinking I could order all new track and switches fron Ross and just have them be 2 rail. My existing Ross stuff, I could remove the 3rd rail.
 
Once it's done, I'll let people know how it goes.
 
Adam
 
 
Originally Posted by bob2:

Yeah, what are you guys going to do when battery power and command control become the norm?  Use a plastic center rail?

 

If you like the center rail, it is easy enough to add in any size rail, or even square stock.  As noted above, rather than modify miles of track, it is easier to convert your rolling stock to 2-rail.

 

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

 

Originally Posted by CentralFan1976:
Originally Posted by 86TA355SR:
Originally Posted by Ron045:

 

0321150739

 

I'm doing the track like this for my round house.  I think it'll look great.

Keep us up to date on the progress, I'd love to see it in place...

 

Thanks,

Mario

Will do, I'm almost ready to start the terminal area.  Will be UP steam era focused.  

 

First facility will be a standard Korber RH and an old Bowser TT.  Just want to get a few trains running.

 

Second facility will be a scratch built Cheyenne RH. A 34" Millhouse unit with the new UP TT arch will be used for the Big Boys.

 

The track in this thread will look nice over the floor pits in the RH.  Can't wait.

Last edited by 86TA355SR
Originally Posted by daveb:

"Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?"

 

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails? and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail? If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

Dave,

  I believe shorting is avoided by killing return power on the 2 common rails between the points and the frog, either permanently or individually controlled by the throw switch.  The gaps shown at that angle are probably deceiving, being plenty close enough to keep regular sized pick up rollers from dropping.

 

Bruce

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails?

 

The both closure rails on the turnout are powered, either positive or common.  The power is routed through the rotary switch which also controls the turnout.

 

and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail?

 

 

As you can probably tell the turnout is an Atlas 2 rail Code 148 that has a Code 100 third rail added.  I have ramped the 3rd rail so that the height nearest the closure rails is sufficient to allow the roller to cross without hanging up.

 

There are some there tweaks, but that's basically what is necessary.  I guess I should add that the Atlas 2 rail frog works fine with 3 rail wheels (which was necessary to even attempt the project).  The guard rails have been relocated to allow for 3 rail wheels.  There are some other tweaks, but that's basically it. 

 

I did modify the Atlas turnout using some suggestions mentioned in the OST publication Detailing Track.  The guard rails are much shorter than the stock Atlas rails, which includes the guide rails on the frog.

 

If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

 

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?

I suppose it is.  Those C&NW reefers were nice!  Also, after all your posts I have taken an interest in the C&NW, a very interesting road.  Jack Delano, one of my favorite photographers took an interest in the C&NW along with the AT&SF.

  

C&NW_400_Locomotive_1942

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  • C&NW_400_Locomotive_1942
Good info on the turnout conversion. I'm leaning in that direction even though I have some ScaleTrax in inventory.
 
As for my interest in CNW and Santa Fe, both roads seemed to have a similar philosophy -- Cheap and Nothing Wasted. Examples that come to mind with Santa Fe are the CF7 project (saved a bundle), turning cab-wrecked hood units into B-units or the occasional slug, and the extended use of GP9's, GP35's and GP30's. One GP9 (GP9u/low short hood) was in service so long it got the Kodachrome paint and there was an unconfirmed rumor that one got "Superfleeted" before it was finally retired.
 
Originally Posted by marker:

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails?

 

The both closure rails on the turnout are powered, either positive or common.  The power is routed through the rotary switch which also controls the turnout.

 

and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail?

 

 

As you can probably tell the turnout is an Atlas 2 rail Code 148 that has a Code 100 third rail added.  I have ramped the 3rd rail so that the height nearest the closure rails is sufficient to allow the roller to cross without hanging up.

 

There are some there tweaks, but that's basically what is necessary.  I guess I should add that the Atlas 2 rail frog works fine with 3 rail wheels (which was necessary to even attempt the project).  The guard rails have been relocated to allow for 3 rail wheels.  There are some other tweaks, but that's basically it. 

 

I did modify the Atlas turnout using some suggestions mentioned in the OST publication Detailing Track.  The guard rails are much shorter than the stock Atlas rails, which includes the guide rails on the frog.

 

If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

 

__________________________________________________________________________

 

Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?

I suppose it is.  Those C&NW reefers were nice!  Also, after all your posts I have taken an interest in the C&NW, a very interesting road.  Jack Delano, one of my favorite photographers took an interest in the C&NW along with the AT&SF.

  

C&NW_400_Locomotive_1942

 

Thanks everyone, this is a great thread.

I put some pieces on the Micro Engineering Code 148, and was impressed on the looks.

image

But what I am worried about are the non-powered Lionel units; the flanges are SO BIG that they bounce along the spike heads, and these are Legacy units... SD40-2 and Sharknose.

Shark:
image

What about putting them on a belt sander, at a 45* angle to lower them?

Thanks,
Mario

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Mario,

 

Attaching the n scale rail is somewhat problematic. I've used spikes, glue and soldered to the tops of brads. I currently use all of these techniques. My next installation will be to cut a grove down the center of the rails to recess the n scale rail a little bit and make it easier to epoxy to the ties. The rollers on the locos and cars dip down enough for good contact.

 

I think one could also make the track dual rail for 3 foot ON3 and offset your o scale rollers left and right just a tiny bit. That would be cool.

 

Ron

 

Originally Posted by Ron H:

Mario,

 

Attaching the n scale rail is somewhat problematic. I've used spikes, glue and soldered to the tops of brads. I currently use all of these techniques. My next installation will be to cut a grove down the center of the rails to recess the n scale rail a little bit and make it easier to epoxy to the ties. The rollers on the locos and cars dip down enough for good contact.

 

I think one could also make the track dual rail for 3 foot ON3 and offset your o scale rollers left and right just a tiny bit. That would be cool.

 

Ron

 

Ron,

 

Through the generosity of Marker, he has given me some track to play with, and he has already ran a groove down the center of the ties, so I lucked out there!  I'm thinking that should be no reason not to have a solid conductor that runs through the track, roadbed and sub road bed, even if its just wire pulled taught and soldered to the bottom of the code 60 rail... I'll experiment with a few different things, including some solid and braided wire.  We shall see how it goes... Luckily, I have plenty of solder to choose from.

 

If there were a narrow gauge line in NY, in the timeframe that I model, then I would definitely go for it.  But, since they all died off by mid-century or so, I'm going to skip it.  The only "western" prototypes that I'm remotely interested in, would possibly be the Nickel Plate, which ran in western NY.

 

 

Originally Posted by Laidoffsick:

I think you guys have too much time on your hands and should come to CA to help me work on the layout!  I'll provide the food and drinks, but then we'd never get anything done anyway.

I'll provide the food and drinks, you can start with the airfare.  I bet I can Hudson-up your turntable!

 

Thanks!

- Mario

 
Originally Posted by bob2:

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest,

LOL, Actually "re-invest" would indicate I could make a profit by selling my 3 rail, which is seldom, making a profit.

I "re-invest" profits,certain losses are deduction on my income tax forms, stocks. I doubt I could deduct losses from my model railroad.

Last edited by josef

     "Through the generosity of Marker, he has given me some track to play with, and he has already ran a groove down the center of the ties . . ."

          Mario

 

I have been following these threads on building a better 3 rail track.  Thanks again to Marker and Ron H for their contributions.

 

I have acquired some used Atlas code 148 2 rail track and was planning on grooving the ties also.  I am not sure how to do this with flex track.   I'm pretty sure that a table saw would send ties and rail flying all over the workshop.   Marker, what's your secret?

 

 

Bob

Last edited by RRDOC

That quote attributed to me did not look like my words.  I am going to deny it.  Here, apparently, is an accurate quote:

 

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

 

It is fairly easy to get quotes correct.  It is not polite to change the words and blame the originator.  Opinion.

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