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To me, the pinnacle of the NYC’s hot rods is the J3 Super Hudson.....3rd Rail’s brass model has always eluded me, and when they do show up, skies the limit, ....I missed one at York the year before last, that I spent too much time him-hawing about, and that’s how it goes at York....so I started looking around at my parts stash, to try and figure out how to build one....obviously the clear choice to start with is a 6-28072 J3a......these are some of the best built Hudsons Lionel has ever produced, so I went with that model....so to get the “look” of the Super, we need a few things, ....a Worthington feedwater, the feed pipe, roller rods, and a Selkirk smoke box door.....I had a shell from a 5444 (28072) and a chassis from a Dreyfus (28084) That model has the same chassis as 28072, but has the coveted roller rod journals.....I took a chance with a Selkirk front by calling Ms. Midge and ordering the front from MTH off of the Mohawk they built with a Selkirk front....thankfully, it’s a darn near perfect fit, with only minimal trimming on the inside of the boiler casting for a nice snug fit...even the screw holes lined up...( lucky) ....next order of business was to add the Worthington and the piping...I had to erase the embedded “bumps” on the shell, smooth all that down, and apply a thin skim coat of filler to fill in the scratches....the only thing that got me gun shy was splitting the walk way that’s raised on the super to make room for the hot water pump....I got cold feet committing to that much grinding, cutting and fitting with all that detail potentially being destroyed....so, I left that be and I’m satisfied with it not being 100% accurate....got to know your limitations.....of course, my buddy Pete ( Norton ) supplied me with the 4 cam lobe, so she’s sports fan smoke, & 4 chuffs per rev,....the Super pictured in some of the build photos next to mine, belongs to another buddy Chris, and that’s a whole ‘nother build we’ll get into later.....that one was just a shell when it came to me...but we’ll get to that one....back to mine, to round out the build, I used a PT tender from the separate sale CC offerings, and renumbered everything appropriately....there’s still a little detail work to do here & there, but I’m satisfied so far...................Pat2F649A71-B542-481E-A0EB-4EA0CC0C944145F277BD-72B0-4354-B8F3-57CDFCCCC1745F5DE9EB-78BC-45B2-9D34-E7977EAC2F2288C48800-BCF3-4C57-B317-5554EA2DB391EE8BA709-8CA9-40C0-A664-3562465DD578656FA933-692F-4EF4-86AF-46EE31BDDC8C7B6BB601-9371-4E39-8A58-D49775654E3FAAEF941B-0208-4DA3-99AB-7C0A629CCCFD38B46DEC-DAE9-41A3-9C14-795199D0788660BEF345-E076-45E9-B714-F5C11D65394A8EDA6DFB-818B-45C5-80E1-348577097BCBC66E589A-52D0-455B-85CB-5DC12A3AA81EDBFAD774-CB59-4E27-A21C-9B1B7D5D6AEF8A8361E8-7B80-4DA7-B927-276CBD12FF2434092216-BEBB-466A-B7CB-F22EFFEA710B935B1CCF-0972-4A0E-9B84-63BA9AE6BFB0E38FC29F-575A-430E-80C6-94DA69B584E8E4EB03C6-FF49-4644-A2A1-E25261AAD5DF 

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Original Post
@RickO posted:

Wow Pat!  Impressive stuff! Whats your address so owners of these older Lionel hudsons can get the mod? 

Rick, I can’t take on any more work at the moment, I’m finally having my layout done this summer/fall, and I’ve got a small back log of Pittman swaps to do for fellas,....but if you want, we can get together say.....after Halloween and figure something out....not a problem by then....Pete & I talked about your new find last night, ....maybe he might do yours??....I can’t speak for him though....that’s up to him....either way, one of us can help you out....

Pat

I really appreciate the offer Pat!

As far as the "super hudson mod" it was a bit tongue and cheek, but I'll definitely be considering a fan smoke unit and 4 chuff upgrade in the future.  No rush as I want to recoup the initial purchase expense.

I'll definitely keep you in mind as we get closer to winter. Regardless, I really enjoy these upgrade/mod threads from yourself and others. Reminds one that theres much more to this hobby than pulling a production model out of a box....thats only the start.

In the case of the NYC, class lights were used to dictate what the train was doing at that given time they’re illuminated, green was a regularly scheduled train possibly followed by a second segment, in both cases, all would be green,....white or actually clear, was an “extra” or a non scheduled added train ........red MARKERS are on the back of a locomotive or on the tender to indicate the end of the train, ...or MARK the location of the end....class lights became non-existent on NYC steam as better and better train control systems were put in play....as the shrouding came off of streamlined locos, there was no point wasting time putting class lights back on as they were not really needed with better train control systems, and controllers knowing better why and where trains were......Jack, did I make any mistakes?...correct anything if I’m wrong....

Pat 

Last edited by harmonyards
@harmonyards posted:

In the case of the NYC, class lights were used to dictate what the train was doing at that given time they’re illuminated, green was a regularly scheduled train possibly followed by a second segment, in both cases, all would be green,

Not quite. The first section of a "regularly scheduled train" would have displayed green class lights and green flags, to indicate that a "second section" was following. If additional sections were required, then those successive sections would also display green class lights and green flags. When the actual "timetable scheduled" passenger train came, it would be display NO illuminated class lights nor flags. 

....white or actually clear, was an “extra” or a non scheduled added train ........red MARKERS are on the back of a locomotive or on the tender to indicate the end of the train, ...or MARK the location of the end....class lights became non-existent on NYC steam as better and better train control systems were put in play....as the shrouding came off of streamlined locos, there was no point wasting time putting class lights back on as they were not really needed with better train control systems, and controllers knowing better why and where trains were......Jack, did make any mistakes?...correct anything if I’m wrong....

Pat 

 

@harmonyards posted:

I was close Jack, ...can I at least get an A-?........or perhaps E for effort??...😛....thanks as always for clarification!...

Pat

Sure, "A-" it is.

Now,,,,,,,,,,,to the model. Excellent job! I also have a few questions:

1) Your nice photos don't seem to show where/how you mounted the Worthington high pressure Feedwater Pump, not the cold water supply turbine pump.

2) What road number are you planning to use? Without going up to the hot upstairs library, I can't remember exactly which road numbers the NYC up-graded to J3a "Super Hudsons" with the Worthington type S Feedwater system and the "Selkirk Front End".

@Hot Water posted:

Sure, "A-" it is.

Now,,,,,,,,,,,to the model. Excellent job! I also have a few questions:

1) Your nice photos don't seem to show where/how you mounted the Worthington high pressure Feedwater Pump, not the cold water supply turbine pump.

2) What road number are you planning to use? Without going up to the hot upstairs library, I can't remember exactly which road numbers the NYC up-graded to J3a "Super Hudsons" with the Worthington type S Feedwater system and the "Selkirk Front End".

Jack, the J3 I used obviously is a diecast boiler shell,...the Hudsons as you well know, that received the Worthingtons , had their foot boards split in three sections, with the center section raised to accommodate the high pressure pump and plumbing....I could not see a pretty way to cut this body shell to duplicate that...so, unfortunately, I had to omit that...believe me, I was miffed, but doing that much grinding and cutting might have gotten real ugly real quick....

cab# is 5447 ....that is correct for a Super with Scullins, Selkirk front, Worthington feedwater, and SHOULD have the high pressure pump with relocated foot boards....there should be a pic of it in my initial post, with cab numbers on, and on the tender.....I just couldn’t see a pretty way of splitting those foot boards...I still need to add the number boards to the headlight sides and front,....they still sport the Mohawk’s cab no.’s....

Pat

Hey Pat, regardless of the split foot boards not being split, you can only do so much. It's not like you have a brass part molder, a diecast shop, or anything else that would make things simpler for you. Just the fact that you did what you did just shows how much you want something that should have been offered by manufacturers as real as can be.

I know you, Rick and some others showed me the Hudson topic and went in to detail of where most of those offered fell way off. Rick's recent purchase being the Holy Grail of what was the most ideal Hudson ever produced. What can any of us say other than you did a great job in showing that you can make a diamond from something that was a piece of coal that just couldn't get there.

Thanks Dave!..and the others that have commented, thanks to all of you....

that’s really the only gripe I have on this build,...and to be accurate, it should have the correct pump...3rd Rail got it right, ...but those models are out of reach, and rarely show up on the secondary market...I’ve cut up, split, put back together plenty of diecast stuff, but that walkway just has too much going on to cut into that ....it doesn’t bother me that badly, but I’m always looking for that next level....not an ....”awwwww,...you almost made it” ....😛

Pat

Hi Pat,

Looks, runs & sounds awesome! 

An old friend of mine gave me a 4x6 B&W photo he took of one of those Super Hudson's at Croton-On-Hudson. They are SUPER! My friend Al was about 20 years older than me & lucky enough to photograph many of NYC's roster.  I'd been in love with them ever since. I have an early PS2 MTH with the PT tender, wish it had the disc drivers. Id like to get the Selkirk front also!

Would love to see more videos. Great job, enjoy running her!

Joe

@ironman1 posted:

Hi Pat,

Looks, runs & sounds awesome! 

An old friend of mine gave me a 4x6 B&W photo he took of one of those Super Hudson's at Croton-On-Hudson. They are SUPER! My friend Al was about 20 years older than me & lucky enough to photograph many of NYC's roster.  I'd been in love with them ever since. I have an early PS2 MTH with the PT tender, wish it had the disc drivers. Id like to get the Selkirk front also!

Would love to see more videos. Great job, enjoy running her!

Joe

Joe, unfortunately any of the unshrouded Hudsons that MTH made, are all of the J1 class,....they did make some “supposed” J2’s for the B&A, but nonetheless, they’re just glorified J1 tooling.....they got the J2 as about as accurate as I did on my Super.....not quite there!....probably,....if I find a beater one, the Williams masterpiece J3a might be a better starting point to do a more accurate Super....at least then, all the correct Worthington components could be added, and the boards raised to accommodate the air tank and all the Worthington goodies needed....my grandad was a mechanic at Harmon (Croton) , maybe your friend and my grandad crossed paths on the Hudson Division....

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thank you for your information & yes, I am aware & honestly for me it's the main features that I look at. If it looks like a Hudson, that's close enough for me. I'm a retired  artist & have a great appreciation for other peoples work. If it makes them happy, that is all that counts.

The Hudson's, like many engines on all roads, went through many changes over the years. Since I wouldn't consider myself an expert on a lot of things, & for sure a rivet counter, a lot of what is offered in O gauge/O scale is a compromise. I went from HO scale & owned that particular engine in brass. I owned a J1, J3, & streamlined Dreyfuss along with 2 Mohawk's & a Niagara, along with many brass diesels. I made a decision 20 years ago to trade all that in for a less serious hobby & have fun, no regrets! I own many MTH engines & Lionel. I run DCS & Legacy & I have less operating headaches overall.

After all, its a hobby & when I retired from a serious job, my goal was to enjoy my family & hobbies.

Enjoy!

Hey Pat, I was showing this topic to my friend and co-worker Jimmy this morning. While he is not a train guy, he does like the look of some of these things. He was blown away by the work(I showed the pictures and was explaining as best as I could) you did on this, and the amount of time(which I said had to be days on days).

He went on to say that you(as well as others here on this topic, and others I follow too) must really know what they are dealing with. I told him how you, Rick, and Pete(Norton) took me to Hudson school many occasions which I barely had a passing grade. I had also said I've learned quite a bit, but still don't have enough information to pass to someone else about what else is right or wrong with any engine. Glad you all take me to class every time I pop on here. That goes for everyone else too, especially hot water.

Hey Pat, I was showing this topic to my friend and co-worker Jimmy this morning. While he is not a train guy, he does like the look of some of these things. He was blown away by the work(I showed the pictures and was explaining as best as I could) you did on this, and the amount of time(which I said had to be days on days).

He went on to say that you(as well as others here on this topic, and others I follow too) must really know what they are dealing with. I told him how you, Rick, and Pete(Norton) took me to Hudson school many occasions which I barely had a passing grade. I had also said I've learned quite a bit, but still don't have enough information to pass to someone else about what else is right or wrong with any engine. Glad you all take me to class every time I pop on here. That goes for everyone else too, especially hot water.

I’m just a cog in the wheel buddy.....I owe a lot of what I learned from the masters on this forum....and I agree, Jack ( hotwater) is the resident historian....get it right, or he’ll get you right!...Jack’s a wealth of knowledge....and as far as upgrading these Hudsons, I take my cues from Pete....

Pat.    

He went on to say that you(as well as others here on this topic, and others I follow too) must really know what they are dealing with. I told him how you, Rick, and Pete(Norton) took me to Hudson school many occasions which I barely had a passing grade.  Glad you all take me to class every time I pop on here. That goes for everyone else too, especially hot water.

All I really know is the difference between graphite and silver.

I'm in the back of the class myself trying to peek over the shoulders of Pat, Pete,  Hotwater and others to try and get the answers so I don't end up a dropout. LOL!

Half of the hobby is my layout. The other half is coming here and learning about the model as well as the prototype.

Last edited by RickO

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