Built Up Vintage Kits - Rolling Stock

Nice work - neat prototype!

Very nice 

I bought this old Lobough kit was partially done and finished it painted printed up decals and weathered it. I think it makes a fine model  

Thanks for posting.  That is one burly looking tank car. There have to be scores of old All Nation, Reynolds, Ambroid, Gloor, Lobough, etal. models that have been/are being built that the rest of us would like to see.  Next up for me is an Ambroid composite hopper.  It's got a way to go, but when finished I'll post.

I have several All Nation, lobaugh, etc. and vintage brass freight cars that I have bought already built up. They are excellent.

Nice work guys.

I love the wood kits. Built a couple Mainline Models 50' REX reefers. Have a pile of Ambroid  X23 boxcar kits to do plus a flanger.

Labelle coach:

Here's the bones of a Picard Novelty kit:

With a little work:

I have a Westbrook 50 Ton steel box car, Burlington.... Zephyr, waiting  construction, I think there are some parts missing, and the instructions are slime. Has any one built one, some pics would be great!!    cTr....( Choose the Right )

Stephen, there is a Westbrook kit currently on ebay. The pictures may help, though not much is shown.  What do you think is missing?  One of the old manufacturers sold "body kits".  I believe the box ends were so marked.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272344...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Jim

mwb posted:

Here's the bones of a Picard Novelty kit:

With a little work:

Martin that's impressive 

box of sticks for sure

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Here's the bones of a Picard Novelty kit:

 

 

Martin that's impressive 

box of sticks for sure

Thanks.  Everything after the 6 "bones" was added by me including the scribed siding...

I should do more of these projects - some serious fun value.

But I'm putting model train building on hold and going back to working on furniture projects and other restoration efforts.

Back at an Ambroid composite hopper I had started a few years ago then put aside. The basic body structure had gone together quite well. Last night the lower hopper sides were added.  The paper patterns on the plans weren't right, so the pieces needed reshaping to fit.  The metal hopper doors were also too large; they were filed down. 

I'm discovering these old kits are a combination of good engineering and time saving and bad engineering and time consuming.  Overall, though, they really do make for pleasant builds.  They'll accept as much effort as you're willing to expend.  One of these hopper kits is currently on ebay for $10.00 buy it now.  Lots of enjoyment for the money.

Jim

T

That Scale-craft reefer looks great! I have a bunch of those that I have picked up over time, some in decent shape and others in bad shape.  I notice on several of mine that while they are scribed on the sides, the actual surface is very rough, seemingly to the extent that a light sanding to smooth them out would completely remove the scribing.  I'm just curious, did you have to re-scribe your reefer?  These old cars started my semi interest in 2 rail scale and have been tempting me to complete a two rail loop on my layout... maybe someday lol

Man, Dennis, I would happily send you a hunk of track!  Those would look better just on a tabletop.  They are stunning models, though.  I really like well done Scale Craft.

Thanks Bob, They were all just picked up off fleabay over time for a few bucks a piece with a sprinkle of patience and timing luck.  As you can also guess, these were already built probably a long time ago.  I sure wouldn't tear these up!

Dennis, my reefer body was built but unpainted.  It required a few minor repairs of dents and dings.  I sanded then primed.  The scribing was quite good. It did take some passes with the back of an xacto blade to clean up a few of the lines.  Jim

Hopper is moving along.  I've taken significant liberties from scale in mounting the brake gear and piping.  The kit provides the typical 3 castings found in box car kits, and the instructions provide no hints in how to mount the castings in the end.  So I've just made up some simple brackets to get the parts in the approximate correct spaces.

The body corners call for 1/16 bass "L" shapes.  This seemed way too weak; brass "L" was used instead.  The other ends of the ladder supports call for 1/16 x 1/32 bass.  I'll use brass strip instead. 

Jim

Finished up the grab irons and supports.  These all need to be individually bent from straight wire.  It's a lot of fussy work and difficult to do uniformly.  Brake staff and platform installed.  Yet to do are the stirrup steps.  I ordered a set of dry transfers from CDS; these need to come from Canada.  The kit decals are Walthers.  They're OK to use but very thick.

Jim

Very nice!  I should have you do all my grab irons.

Fussy indeed! Great work!

The Nickel Plate hopper is finished.  Overall, it was a very nice kit to build.  Its shortcomings were, in my view, the 1/16 wood angles for the corner posts (which I replaced) and the lack of information on the brake rigging.  I actually would have preferred the earlier markings included in the kit, but the CDS dry transfers made for a neater job. The trucks are Atlas Andrews.  The hand grabs are .022" brass wire.  Next time I'll try something a bit finer.

This car will be a shelf sitter.  I don't have a layout and have decided not to attempt weathering.  Apologies for the derailment in one  of the pictures.

Next up is a Labelle Omaha Reefer.  It's started, and so far I'm not very impressed.  I had built one of their box cars and a flat car in HO back in the 1970s; seemed OK then. Compared to the Ambroid kit the Labelle instructions are poor and the basic box construction is not very scale-like.  More to follow.

Very nice!

Ye she's a beauty.     cTr...( Choose the Right )

Thanks for the comments.  On to the Labelle CStPM&O vegetable car kit.

The prototype was patented in 1908 by Charles Moore.  It comprised a center ice chamber hanging down from the roof, six roof hatches for filling, and an oil heater centered below the floor.  Internal passages allowed for air circulation.  Ice for cold; heat for warm depending on the season. The patent is available on line; I could find no pictures other than the one Labelle included in its instructions.

Because of the upper ice chamber the car was higher than the normal car of the time. The Labelle kit does not duplicate this. Labelle's car body construction is also simplified and in some ways crude.  The side top facia boards are represented by the subroof edges - too narrow vertically and protruding too far out. The supplied roof sheeting is .072" or 3 1/2" scale thickness.  The door are just scribed into the side sheeting. I decided to modify the construction to give some finer details and to provide more visual interest.

I also don't know what safety features would have been required in 1908.  Labelle shows neither ladder nor steps to brake wheel. The Labelle decals provide no hint of the construction date of the car or any in service dates. So, with apologies to the purists, it ends up being a free-lanced car.

Great pics!   I am hoping to pick up a couple kits at the Indy meet.  I used to build the HO scale craftsman kits when I was younger and could see better.  Need to start building a few kits to use on my planned shelf layout.   Mike

Dodger, by all means post some pictures if you build a kit.  I am progressing on the Labelle reefer.  It has evolved into sort of a free lance model because I've deviated quite a bit from the Labelle construction.

The Omaha reefer is now in primer.  After some final corrections it will be ready for paint - gray sides with boxcar red ends and roof.

With the completion of the reefer in the not too distance future, I have revisited a kit purchased from P&D in 2003.  It must have been one of the last All Nation tank cars made before the business ceased.  It was started in 2003, then put aside after I gave up on it.

I'm speculating that it has a "welded" tank because AN ran out of the brass tubes and riveted wrappers and wanted to unload the remainder of their tank car parts.  The tank is just a semi-formed flat sheet insufficient in circumference to make a complete tube.  There's a gap of about 3/8" at the bottom.  Fastening the tank to the frame did nothing to close the gap. My attempt to gain a tubular shape consisted of some turned plywood discs epoxied to the inside.  The epoxy to brass joint failed shortly and I was left with a "C" shaped tank.

Now it's 2016 and I've brought out the blacksmith tools.  My solution was to sweat solder the tank edges to an internal filler strip 3/4" wide and the length of the tank.  The ply discs went back in to hold the circular shape.  About 6 wire bands were twisted around the tank to pull it into the circular shape.  It sorta worked; it looks terrible; and I hope most of the mess will be hidden by the central frame member.  So, it remains to be seen what I am able to make of this.

Current work in progress:

That's coming along well.  Is it a Labelle baggage, or did Ambroid do one in O scale as well as HO?

I'm awaiting some box car red Scalecoat I paint for the ends of the Omaha reefer.  In the meantime the All Nation tank car is moving forward.

The soldered tank bottom got some bondo to cover the defects.  I substituted full length running boards for the kit-supplied shorter ones.  A little detail has been added to the ends.

I think you have done well on that tank.  All Nation took over the Thomas line, and they were the same except die cast domes.  That gap in the bottom is normal - glad you filled it.

I considered them nice, but flimzoid - so I stuck brass rings inside, as you did with wood.  I used the brass as anchor points for screws - truck screws, dome screws, and mounting screws.  They turned out ok, but I much prefer the prewar Lobaugh tank kits.  Look for one of those next - they are identifiable by a ring of rivets at each end, pressed into the brass tube.  You can make them better with a skirt under the dome - see my photos on a different forum.

jjscott posted:

The body corners call for 1/16 bass "L" shapes.  This seemed way too weak; brass "L" was used instead.  The other ends of the ladder supports call for 1/16 x 1/32 bass.  I'll use brass strip instead. 

Jim

I have a Quality Craft N&W Hopper and I need to do the same thing with the body corners.

The side frames on the QC car don't extend out like yours, so most of what I have to do will be finished in brass from the bolster plate to the end.  Should provide a solid foundation.

I need to get the brass though, every time I go to the LHS they're closed!

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

Most can; depends on the truck being used and clearance with the car underbody

Bob, the brass I used for the corners was 1/8 x .015 thick.  I think 3/32 may have been better, but the 1/8 is what I had. 

mwb posted:

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

Most can; depends on the truck being used and clearance with the car underbody

Thanks MWB. What trucks would you recommend ? I would like to use friction bearing trucks with Lionel style couplers.

LaBelle baggage car:

That's nice work.

feet posted:

mwb posted:

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

Most can; depends on the truck being used and clearance with the car underbody

Thanks MWB. What trucks would you recommend ? I would like to use friction bearing trucks with Lionel style couplers.

Couldn't begin to hazard a guess.  I almost exclusively use Athearn trucks with Intermountain wheelsets under my cars.

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

I have a bunch of kit built cars converted to three rail by putting three rail trucks under them. To get them down to a better height, the bolsters and some of the under body detail need to be removed.

The problem is that two rail cars have bolsters on the frame. Three rail trucks have built in bolsters. Two bolsters (one on the frame and one on the truck) make the car sit too high. The truck needs to be close enough to the body that the wheel flanges just barely clear the frame.

The lowest bolster three rail trucks come from Atlas, Pecos River, and the Lionel ones with the sheet metal top/bolster.

Old kit built cars with age patina look great running behind a scruffy, weathered steam loco.

RoyBoy posted:

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

The problem is that two rail cars have bolsters on the frame. Three rail trucks have built in bolsters. Two bolsters (one on the frame and one on the truck) make the car sit too high. The truck needs to be close enough to the body that the wheel flanges just barely clear the frame.

The lowest bolster three rail trucks come from Atlas, Pecos River, and the Lionel ones with the sheet metal top/bolster.

 

Or, you can just put 3-rail wheelsets in Athearn trucks - I've swapped enough of them back to 2-rail to know it can be done.

mwb posted:

RoyBoy posted:

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

The problem is that two rail cars have bolsters on the frame. Three rail trucks have built in bolsters. Two bolsters (one on the frame and one on the truck) make the car sit too high. The truck needs to be close enough to the body that the wheel flanges just barely clear the frame.

The lowest bolster three rail trucks come from Atlas, Pecos River, and the Lionel ones with the sheet metal top/bolster.

 

Or, you can just put 3-rail wheelsets in Athearn trucks - I've swapped enough of them back to 2-rail to know it can be done.

Looks like the perfect solution MWB, never thought of swapping wheel sets. Thanks.

Those 1950s railroad modelers must have been a lot more accomplished and persistent than I. I've really struggled with the All Nation tank car kit.  The engineering is poor because of the open bottom tank shell.  Parts fit is poor. 

The supplied running boards are too short for the center sill.  I replaced. The center sill itself is too short to allow the predrilled holes to align with the cast ends.  I filed the holes oval. Several of the punched holes in the shell were double punched and off center.  The holes themselves are too big.  They were filled and redrilled. There were probably thousands of these built up over the years, but I'd rank it at about a 3 on a scale of 10.

It's now in prime.  I've yet to make up the hand rail brackets.  The plan is to paint and decal the tank before adding the hand rails.

Notwithstanding, it looks like you're making a good fist of it, JJ.

Yes - beautiful work.  That is the joy of kit building - makng a model that is better than most.

mwb posted:

RoyBoy posted:

feet posted:

Stupid question but i have to know. Can these cars run on 3 rail track? If they can i might just start buying and building some. 

The problem is that two rail cars have bolsters on the frame. Three rail trucks have built in bolsters. Two bolsters (one on the frame and one on the truck) make the car sit too high. The truck needs to be close enough to the body that the wheel flanges just barely clear the frame.

The lowest bolster three rail trucks come from Atlas, Pecos River, and the Lionel ones with the sheet metal top/bolster.

 

Or, you can just put 3-rail wheelsets in Athearn trucks - I've swapped enough of them back to 2-rail to know it can be done.

Do you use the scale couplers already on the car? One of two of the old manufacturers made couplers that were compatible with Lionel lobster claw couplers.

I'm new to the O scale scene although I've been buying kits off ebay since about 2003, when I found a couple of All-Nation boxcar kits at a flea market.  They piqued my interest.

As a generalization the kits with cast metal end beams have some sort of scale-like coupler pocket built in.  The All-Nation tank car I'm now working on was of very late manufacture.  It had cast ends which accepted a plastic dummy coupler.  On my car I filed away the pocket to accept a Kadee 805 coupler box.  I also had to lower the bolster (file) so the old Auel trucks I plan to use make everything sit at the right height. 

I also have an early orange box All-Nation PRR hopper.  It has wood end beams but includes a metal end casting just wide enough to accept a metal dummy coupler.  The coupler is stamped "All-Nation". While the metal and plastic couplers can be forced to mate, they wouldn't function without alteration on an operating layout. Neither of these couplers mates with a three-rail coupler on a PRB tender.

I've found the All-Nation and Athearn boxcar kits don't really have an end.  The body end stamping just ends at the bottom of the floor piece.  It's up to the builder to decide what to do about couplers.  I've seen short dummies just screwed to the bottom of the floor.  It would be simple to add Kadee's (or whatever) for two rail or use truck mounted couplers for three rail. On the Rock Island Scale Craft reefer I used Atlas metal two rail trucks.  The truck bolster was modified to sleeve down the center hole so a small wood screw could be used for mounting. IIRC for three rail use the Atlas trucks have a built in body bolster; this is removable for two rail.

Any of these parts can be made to work.  It just takes some hacking or shimming.

jjscott posted:

.... the old Auel trucks I plan to use.....

 

A lot of those are 17/64th's scale and a lot are not insulated either.

I also have an early orange box All-Nation PRR hopper.

I'd like to see that one, please?

Any of these parts can be made to work.  It just takes some hacking or shimming.

Yup! Hacking and shimming and doing what it takes to make it work. 

Oops.  Senior moment on my so-called All-Nation hopper; when I looked it's actually a WALTHERS PRR hopper in an orange box, maybe an H30 (?). I'm not really conversant on the prototype model numbers.  It does have cast metal ends with slots for scale dummy couplers.  The metal All-National couplers I mentioned above are loose parts.

Yes, I checked and the Auel trucks are noninsulated and appear slightly larger than some other Bettendorfs I have.  Thanks for tipping me off on this.  I think I'll use them anyway.  I don't have a layout.

I've also just discovered the Walthers decals I planned on using for the tank car disintegrate when placed in water.  I thought I'd better check before putting paint on the car.  It was a Deep Rock set that covered the inner grab rail mounts.  I had planned to add the inner mounts after putting the decals on. These old decals are a problem.  While they can be overcoated with clear, the film thickness goes up even more. I'll have to order some modern decals from Protocraft.

Update.  The All-Nation tank car has received a coat of black paint.  New decals have been ordered via US mail, so expected ETA may be in 10 days or so.  The Labelle Omaha reefer has had decals applied and is receiving multiple coats of decal set to bed them in.  Then some flat clear and final assembly.

Next up is an Athearn 40' wood side box car.  This was an incomplete kit purchased on ebay.  It was missing the entire under frame, the wood sides and some other minor parts. Back when I started this adventure in 2003 I assembled the box using the supplied paper (card?) inner sides.  I fabricated outer sides from some 1/64 aircraft ply.  My plan was to make a wartime Great Northern plywood side car.  Figuring the panels were 4x8, vertical lines were scribed at the 4 foot mark. Unfortunately the actual panel layout was different, so my sides were not prototypically correct. The kit was put aside, and has just now been restarted, with the comment that I'm building for fun with no attempt to make this a correctly scaled model.  Shown is a Scale Craft cast frame (which I won't use) and a pair of cast doors, which I will use.

jjscott, You do very nice work.

Reading about how you do decals, have you considered using dry transfers from Clover House? I've been very pleased with the quality of their dry transfers, and it takes a lot of the work out of lettering a car. 

Here are a couple examples on a pair of Ye Olde Huff-n-Puff boxcars:

BRR, your cars are very well done.  Thanks for posting them.

As to the decals, I would prefer dry transfers if they were available for the cars I am building.  The NP hopper posted earlier used dry transfers.  And, the Great Northern plywood boxcar will be lettered with a CDS dry transfer set I must have bought when I bought the car.  It's not strictly correct because the lettering is all black.  The lettering and logo should be green; Protocraft has the correct markings in decal form.

I'd forgotten about Clover House. If anything is applicable to the kits I have I will be certain to order them.  The modern thin film decals do go on well.  They require more work and more time, and sometimes the film does not fully disappear.  The old decals are terrible and to be used only as a last resort.

There has been a bit of progress on the Athearn boxcar.  A basic underframe has been fabricated. The metal ends and plywood sides have been added to the body. 

I'm having some difficulty getting the decal film to disappear on one side of the Omaha reefer.  I'm up to about 6 applications of Micro Set.  Tried Solvaset on some test pieces and it seemed to be about equally (in)effective.

Finished.  My version of LaBelle's Omaha reefer.

Nice job, JJ 

An interesting car.  Heated and refrigerated?

Strange bedfellows. 

Well, the All Nation 8,000 gallon tank car is finally finished.  It was a long and arduous process hampered by a poor kit, my lack of skill, and lots of missteps along the way.

I did a fair amount of redesigning of the structure to get the thing together.  My Scalecoat I paint went on too rough; I had to sand the tank with 3000 to 12000 sandpaper before I could apply decals.  My attempt to apply the 1st Protocraft DEEP ROCK decal was a complete failure.  I had coated the surface with the blue label Microscale decal solvent, which not only destroyed the decal but welded it in the wrong place. Off it came requiring more fixes to the paint.

The loss of the Protocraft decal meant I was forced to use the old Walthers decals I had rejected earlier because they were disintegrating.  I sprayed the DEEP ROCK decals with one coat of Testors gloss to hold them together. One went on OK.  The other broke up.  I was able to piece it into position but lost the top part of one of the "E"s.  I had to mix and match some paint to fix it.  The Walthers "DEEP ROCK" is bigger than the Protocraft which made it more difficult to fit the lower letters to the tank side. I did the decaling before mounting the tank to the frame.

The side ladders were missing from the kit.  These were made up from brass. It was extremely difficult to get everything straight and level, from the frame, to the ends, to the tank walks, to the handrails and to the decals. So many compromises were made. In summary this was one tough project, and I can say I'll never build another one of these.

I've been slowly working on the Athearn boxcar.  Details, such as they are, have been added, and the construction is basically complete.  It is in a coat of primer awaiting black ends, roof and bottom.  Then, after drying a few days, the orange paint will go on the sides.

Here is the All Nation EJ&E 40' steel box car.  Almost ready to paint the roof/ends/underframe.  Need to finish up brake rigging on the one end and a few under side details.   Need a pair of sprung Timken trucks as both sets that came in the box were broken from zinc pest.  I will get some Kaydee's at the shop in Indy this weekend after the Danville NMRA show we are going to tomorrow.   Mike

Scotty - that is as good a tank as I have seen, and the decals look great!  As I recall, the AN tanks are just Thomas, repackaged.  Mine needed interior reinforcements, since the brass was so skinny.

Very nice!

jjscott posted:

Finished.  My version of LaBelle's Omaha reefer.

Why would the ice bunkers be over the main door? Wouldn't that make everything more difficult, like loading/unloading the produce and the loading of ice?

The Moore's patent refrigerator car never caught on, perhaps for the very reason that the center ice bunker wasn't convenient for loading and unloading cargo.  The patent is on line and it shows the car to be higher than a conventional car - to allow room for the ceiling hung ice bunker.  LaBelle did not duplicate the extra height in their kit.  I lowered the door a bit to create the illusion of some space above the door.

There were internal passages to direct warm air from the heater positioned below the floor to the cargo areas.  There were also blades that moved as the car went down the track to help air movement - like a fan would do.  It seems doubtful this would be very effective. In all an interesting concept, but probably not effective.  It does make an interesting model.

Thanks for the comments and likes.  Posts of other's builds are certainly welcome.

One more vintage kit is finished. This Athearn boxcar was missing its metal sides and underframe.  I made up some plywood sides and built a simple frame.  The doors are from Keil Line and use the kit slides.  Simple hardware and tag boards were added.  The kit ladders were shortened; wood roof walks replaced the metal kit items.  Paint is Floquil reefer orange and weathered black.  The orange is so old it's in a square bottle.  Dry transfers are CDS.  They went on beautifully.

I've started an Ambroid Lehigh and Hudson River flanger. If I can keep my enthusiasm going, I'll post progress.

Beautiful.  You are a master car builder.

I think these cars look great!

 Posts of other's builds are certainly welcome.

Ok, here's my current escapee from the Closet of Horrors: an All-Nation C&O hopper car kit.....

Well, that hopper certainly looks to be a challenge. I'll be interested to see what glues you use. My L&HR flanger cupola has been glued with epoxy; for that small assembly it seems to be working OK. Epoxy does provide a little adjustment time.

jjscott posted:

Well, that hopper certainly looks to be a challenge. I'll be interested to see what glues you use. My L&HR flanger cupola has been glued with epoxy; for that small assembly it seems to be working OK. Epoxy does provide a little adjustment time.

It's a mess but a challenge to make something out of what there is will be answered.  May take a bit of time and more than a bit of compromise, and a bit of creation of missing parts....

Curious to see what you do with the flanger - got that same kit on the shelf to tackle - hope we get a lot of snow and soon!

Shown is the start of the Ambroid flanger.

The plan is to build this essentially out of the box. I puzzled over what to do about the interior.  I decided to use tinted  plastic for the windows.  A couple of coats of Tamiya transparent yellow were sprayed on clear plastic; then followed a couple more coats of Tamiya smoke.  The dark rectangle in the photo is the finished piece.  Held up to the light it's still pretty easy to see through.  The inside of the car is painted with that medium green.  My hope is that when finished the effect will be a see-through look with no clear inside detail.  Time will tell.

The window frames and doors were painted with the yellow exterior color.  They need to be glazed before the body is assembled. The window cutouts have been made and the side pieces glued together.  The cast metal cupola pieces were assembled with epoxy glue. The cupola roof is bass wood. I did cut out the main roof for the cupola.

The flanger body is now assembled.  To the inside of the sides I added a horizontal strip below the windows and reinforcing strips to the vertical joints before assembling the box.  This stiffened the sides and will hopefully prevent future warping and splitting.  The end doors got .60"x .100" framing to inset them back from the siding.  The prototype pictures show this setback. The kit instructions have the doors glued directly to the siding. A door header is yet to be added. I should have replaced the cast door handles.

My experiment with the tinted glazing didn't come out as I hoped.  The Tamiya paint on the butyrate (or acrylic) clear glazing remained tacky and was damaged by the slightest touch.  Light does show through; the lack of interior is hidden; but, I'm not sure about the look.

Quite a few pictures of the prototype flanger are on the internet.  The color pictures show either no roof walkways or what may be a walkway on the cupola.  One black and white photo - which may be the earliest - shows a roof walkway but no cupola walkway.  The color pictures also show significant overhang at the eaves.  The kit has this.  I'm wondering if plywood sheeting was added at some point to protect the car from a decaying roof.  The black and white photos show conventional overhang at the eaves.

At any rate I've decided to reduce the overhang of the roof sheeting.  I also replaced the 1/31x1/16 facia with a 1/8" styrene strip. I think it matches the photos better.

Nicely done - I guess I'm going to have to pull out my kit of this car when I get some open bench space after I get done doing battle with that A-N hopper.

I'm glad it's you and not me owning the All Nation hopper.  I'm finding the soft metal castings to be problematic.  The cupola pieces have mitered ends.  Try as I might, I could not get all four pieces perfectly square.  The corner joints are also visible.  Scratching from wood or styrene would probably give better results.  But, I guess that's not in the spirit of bringing the old kits to life.

jjscott posted:

The cupola pieces have mitered ends.  Try as I might, I could not get all four pieces perfectly square.  The corner joints are also visible. 

Not too surprising, but forewarned is forearmed,

Scratching from wood or styrene would probably give better results.  But, I guess that's not in the spirit of bringing the old kits to life.

Probably /possibly so, but if I wanted to scratch it, I guess I would just copy the plans and sell off the kit.....

The Ambroid kit includes some pretty decent cast hand grabs, but they just fasten directly to the surface - probably with a dab of C.A. I figured the slightest handling would dislodge them.  I'm just going to use bent wire grabs; holes are drilled.  Installed the side doors and made some hardware. For the roof covering I'm trying 54" strips of tracing paper glued in place with Duco cement.  Pictures show that in progress.  We'll see how it works out.

Exactly one year has passed since my last post about the Ambroid Flanger build. Bob's great gondola pictures rekindled my interest: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ild-a-really-old-kit 

So, I started dabbling away at it again.

First off, the kit supplied bolsters put the car over 1/8" high using San Juan arch bar trucks. I made up some new bolsters to correct the height then started on the underbody. There's a train line shown which I added. No other brake rigging is shown though there is a brake wheel that must be connected to brake rigging. Something's got to be under there somewhere. I couldn't find anything on the internet and just added some old All Nation castings where they wouldn't interfere with the flanger blades.

Ambroid has the flanger blades installed with the top edge glued to the bottom of the body. This leaves no room for any brake rigging - even if one knew where it went. There's also no positive location for the blades. I tried gluing with CA, but the parts broke loose. I ended up inserting two pieces of "L" shaped rod in the car bottom at the leading edge of each blade to provide positive location. I glued the blades with 5 minute epoxy. That didn't hold either since I now have another detached blade. The "Y" shaped hangers have no positive attachment at the blades. Their centers can be inserted in a hole drilled in the bottom of the body. The pictures don't show the mounting very well.

The tracing paper roof worked out pretty well. I hit it with a couple of coats of primer. The grab irons on the sides were bent up and temporarily pushed into their respective holes. I'll straighten and glue before painting the sides. The plan is to do the yellow paint on sides and ends. Then paint the black end stripes; add the end grabs; then I'll paint the roof and underbody.

Jim

JJ, Your work is superb!

Simon

jjscott posted:

Exactly one year has passed since my last post about the Ambroid Flanger build. Bob's great gondola pictures rekindled my interest: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ild-a-really-old-kit 

First off, the kit supplied bolsters put the car over 1/8" high using San Juan arch bar trucks. I made up some new bolsters to correct the height then started on the underbody. There's a train line shown which I added. No other brake rigging is shown though there is a brake wheel that must be connected to brake rigging. Something's got to be under there somewhere. I couldn't find anything on the internet and just added some old All Nation castings where they wouldn't interfere with the flanger blades.

Ambroid has the flanger blades installed with the top edge glued to the bottom of the body. This leaves no room for any brake rigging - even if one knew where it went. There's also no positive location for the blades. I tried gluing with CA, but the parts broke loose. I ended up inserting two pieces of "L" shaped rod in the car bottom at the leading edge of each blade to provide positive location. I glued the blades with 5 minute epoxy. That didn't hold either since I now have another detached blade. The "Y" shaped hangers have no positive attachment at the blades. Their centers can be inserted in a hole drilled in the bottom of the body. The pictures don't show the mounting very well.

The tracing paper roof worked out pretty well. I hit it with a couple of coats of primer. The grab irons on the sides were bent up and temporarily pushed into their respective holes. I'll straighten and glue before painting the sides. The plan is to do the yellow paint on sides and ends. Then paint the black end stripes; add the end grabs; then I'll paint the roof and underbody.

Jim

I'm very glad you found inspiration to get back to building kits in my recent thread Jim. The flanger is particularly fitting.

Bob

My Ambroid flanger sits outside on a cold winter day, just as the prototype would have been. It is now finished after a long break from vintage kit building.

I've found that these old kits require the builder to fill in lots of gaps where the instructions, drawings, or parts are lacking. The flanger's major shortcoming was in the design and mounting of the flanger blades. I had to narrow them to fit between the truss rods and come up with a method to hang (glue) them from the floor. The design doesn't really allow for any brake gear, nor is any shown on the plans. It takes some real fiddling to get the blades at the correct angles and with clearance above the tracks. Of note, there are no actual flanger blades that would clear between the rails. A minor omission, I guess.

My car bottom was painted with Floquil weathered black. It's nice paint; too bad it is no longer available. The body was painted with Model Master yellow, lightened with white. It sprays well but chips quite easily from the brass hand grabs. The roof is Model Master flat black altered with some brown; it looks no different than flat black. Testors dull coat was airbrushed on for the final finish.

The original decals wanted to break up. They were saved with a coat of Liquid Decal Film. When soaked, they took forever to free up from the backing, but in the end went on fine. The black stripes were sprayed on. I didn't trust using the stripe decals provided in the kit.

Jim

Jim...you were born to build rolling stock models. I know of very few others who do such a exceptional job. I appreciate you sharing the finished model here.

Bob

Thanks Bob, I do appreciate the comment. It's too bad more kit builders don't post here. There have to be a fair number still building. The build emphasis seems to have shifted to scenery on layouts and away from rolling stock. Are all those old Walthers, All Nation and LaBelle kits just languishing on shelves somewhere?

Enough editorializing. My next project is a gondola kit from Liberty Models of Independence, Missouri. I had never heard of this kit maker and have never before seen one of their kits. It was a $9.95 ebay buy, and I was the sole bidder. The sides were silk screened for the Mid Continent Region of the NMRA in 1971.

The ebay pictures weren't very helpful, and I took a chance on the kit. I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived. Construction is very scale-like. It has brass castings for the brake gear, some photo etch for brake levers and hollow stake pocket castings (plastic). It's like a Labelle kit, but better.

The NMRA markings will be replaced with something else. So far, the sides have been sanded along with the floor and end pieces. I used a few brushed coats of Dull Coat as a sealer. The plan is to just build it as is, out of the box. It will run on a pair of Protocraft arch bar trucks.

Jim

UP 50ft box converted to wood chip service from prototype , I use an old Athearn Kit  the thin walls make for realism especially on the ends . Custom made decals , better doors brass cast grab irons

Old Atlas F unit , custom decals , stainless panels using gold leaf glue and cheap tin foil from Dollar Store, done years ago . I even had a friend make Flywheels for the motor  , coasts like a dream . LED lites with large capacitors . I did this 10 yrs ago 

That is one ingenious box car conversion! Thanks for posting it and the F unit. Nice work. Jim

Some SERIOUSLY nice work in this thread!!  You guys are knocking it out of the park!

Andre

I tackled a Thomas tank car from the late 40's in an article here http://oscale.uberflip.com/i/8...ber-2017/46?m4=%2F47

Lot's of modifications to modernize it which also got me into some trouble but that what makes it fun!

Amazing work guy's!

I've scratchbuilt a couple cars, and build LaBelle passenger cars, Ye Olde Huff n Puff boxcars, Intermountain, and a couple Athearn kits. Have a wood caboose to build, though I don't remember the manufacturer. I've posted pictures on the forum, but there is so little interest, I quit. Was considering doing a LaBelle passenger car step-by-step, but with so little interest, the time it takes to post photo's just isn't worth it.

The hobby has moved away from model building, which is fine, but it's a very enjoyable part to me.

This post has inspired me to work on another Labelle Kit. This is the second old time craftsman kit I've ever built, so I have a long ways to go, but eventually, I'll get there. This is the Labelle 50 foot Racine wagon and Carriage car kit.

The biggest problem I've had so far was that nothing was the same size. I wonder if this kit was put together using leftovers? The Wood blocks for the end were different sizes, the floor and roof had differently milled edges, there was not enough scribed siding to complete both car sides, and the roof scribed siding was of different thicknesses.

It was nothing like the first Labelle kit, whic was the 34 foot soo line boxcar. 

What I ended up doing was using new scribed siding that I cut from some Northeast Lumber sheets, tapered the roof as best I could, and did a LOT of sanding to make the wood end blocks match. The end result is a little uneven, but I think passable.

I used replacement stirrups from SCD to replace the stirrups and upgraded the brake wheel. I still for the life of me can't figure out where the stupid piece that the brake rod goes into actually goes, so I guessed. I don't think I got it right.

On the underside, I used a flexible .020 jewelers wire to string the brake rigging. I like it because you can thread it like real thread, but you do have to be careful with it. It will bend after you've put it in place.

I did not like the way the end turned out. Since this was a carriage boxcar, the end was basically a set of doors that could swing open and the carriage be driven out. At first I put them on the wrong side, After I put them on the proper side, where I mounted the brake wheel and stuff, the door would never have been able to open, and quite honestly, I did not like how it looked, so I got rid of them and turned it into a regular 50 foot boxcar. 

So far I've completed the build, and primed the car. The pictures are below. I will post more after final painting, decaling and weathering.

All of that is seriously nice work.  Especially impressed with the tin foil on the F-7!

I see you encountered many of the same problems with your tank car as I did with my All Nation car. It's a nice build to read Dan, with some good tips. For some reason the page advance wouldn't work with my computer (Mac) and I had to refresh each page before it would advance. Just slowed me a bit. I plan to go back and start at page 1 and read everything.

That 50 LaBelle box car is coming along nicely. Post pictures when you have it painted and decaled. Way back in the 1970s I built a number of LaBelle HO kits and was happy with the way they went together. When I recently built the vegetable refrigerator car I ran into some of the same issues Adferraro faced. My end blocks were different widths with one matching the floor and the other wider. The roof parts were way over scale and just didn't look right in O scale. I had to change them. When we choose to build this old stuff we are soon reminded  that they came from a different time when everything was less precise, less accurate, but maybe more satisfying when we finally struggled through to the end.

Jim

Here are some more pictures of the Labelle Boxcar build, after painting and decaling. This is my first time since I was a child using waterslide decals (used to build model planes) and the first time using Walthers Solvaset to snuggle the decals down. I think it turned out ok.

For the paint, I used Scalecoat paint from Minuteman models. I really like the paint a lot. This is "Boxcar Red #2". It comes out real smooth, glossy and durable. For the underside, I wanted to try out Rustoleum Camouflage black. It's super flat and has kind of a dusty gritty look to it that I like.

I praised the Liberty Gondola kit a bit prematurely I think. The scale construction is there, but the accuracy of the parts is not. The under frame consists of inner and outer sills running the length of the car. The end beams, bolsters and needle bolsters are all notched to slot into the sills. The problem is that none of the notches lined up; all had to be opened up and widened so the sills would lay straight and parallel to the car length.

The floor planking is shown on the plan as wider than the frame and notched for the stakes. As supplied it was exactly as wide as the frame and cut just a little bit off. It works OK, but is probably not prototypically  correct. The car ends were too narrow; new parts were made of styrene.  And, I wonder if the actual car would have had cap rails as wide as provided.

Complaints aside, it is going together. This kit is no different than most of these older kits. They just require a bit of persuasion here and there. I think the plastic stake pockets, queen posts and turnbuckles may be Grandt Line castings.

Jim

I finished the Labelle 50 Foot Boxcar build and added the archbar trucks. Here's a final picture of it under regular room led lighting and in front of a backdrop. Ignore the three rail track.

On to my next kit.....

The LaBelle boxcar turned out great.

My gondola kit is now finished. Pictures posted.

Beautiful!

Jim, your on a roll with these absolutely beautiful models you generate from almost impossible vintage wood kits. Every one of them so far is a beauty!

Bob

My next kit build is an All Nation undecorated 40 foot wood reefer. This is going to be one of a number of milk can cars lettered for my railroad's milk train. 

This is my first time building an All Nation kit, so my first observation:

1.) This kit seems like it's going to be an easier build than the Labelle kit. In particular, the scribed roof is already glued to the wood roof boards, the scribed siding is already attached to plywood sides, and the end blocks are already milled with scribed siding.

2.) There are a lot fewer pieces involved. But some pieces are missing. Below is a picture of the basic components. Pretty simple right?

First thing I realized upon closer inspection was that the bolsters were missing. I'm assuming that the bolsters were cast metal type, the instructions make reference to holes in the bolsters, and the pictures imply a cast metal type. I also have a coupe built freight cars that look like all nations, with a cast type bolster, so I ordered a pair from Scale City Designs. Those are pictured in the picture above.

With those in hand I proceeded to assemble the basic outline. I started by gluing the end blocks to the floor. However, with the end blocks being milled, over the years, they had started to curl "outwards" along the lines where the siding was milled into the block. Already I can see the advantage of a solid block with siding glued to it as opposed to the milled block. I did the best I could but I couldn't quite get them completely flat. 

That's when I made by first real error in judgement. The instructions called for me to glue the roof on next, and the car sides pretty much last. I decided to disregard that and glue the sides on next.

At this point, I realized I should have sanded the bottom flat, I figured I could get away without it, but ended up regretting it. Also, the car sides were longer than the floor. I don't know if that was normal with these kits, but I ended up with severe overhang on each end that had to be sanded down.

Once I sanded them down, a lot of the milled siding was taken out, so I used a scribing tool to rescribe the lost areas. I'm not the greatest scribe unfortunately, but under a couple coats of paint I think it'll do.

Having completed the bottom and side assembly, next I added weight to the car using 1/4 ounce tire weights, I also installed the bolsters and trucks, and loaded it up with all the detail bits and couplers to get an accurate weight so that I could bring it up to NMRA standards. Since this is going to be a milk can car, I used a set of GSC express trucks from American Scale Models.

Next I moved on to the roof. How hard could it be to put two small pieces of wood on right? Well, much harder than I thought. The two pieces would not seat in the center so I had to sand down where they would join to get them seated properly. Now I'm not sure if I screwed up the sanding somehow, (I used the piece of sandpaper laid on the table and drew the wood across it method ) but I ended up with some pretty big holes in the center of the roof where they met.

To be continued.......

Continuing on from my previous post, I was left with this after gluing on the roof:

Time to break out the wood putty! I used JB weld wood putty epoxy stuff to fill in the gaps. Since this area will be under the roofwalk, I wasn't too worried.

After that I installed the wood centersill under the car, and couldn't figure out which way I should glue it. With the T section down or up. I chose down, and apparently I chose poorly. Oh well, I'll make it work. I also installed the crossbeams at this time. Which I sanded down and tapered so that the edge of the crossbeam was flush with the side sill of the car.

Then I moved onto adding the roof walk and the little bracers for it. The kit came with a piece of stripwood to use for them, but I wanted to try out the cast metal roof braces that SCD offers. They are grooved in the center so you don't have to sand the roof. I affixed them with 5 minute epoxy.

Then came the roofwalk itself. The piece all nation supplied was a plastic piece that I didn't really like, so I made a new one out of the appropriate sized stripwood, and attached that to the roof supports using epoxy. I also added on the roofwalk end supports using epoxy and then cut the roofwalk to match the end roof support.

Next I added the end sills. All nation included cast metal sills with scale coupler pockets. I took a dremel to the coupler pocket and cut most of it off in order to fit kadee couplers. Then I glued them to the car using epoxy.

lastly I added on the Brake Wheel and platform (not stock), as well as the ladders, grabs and stirrups. I also added on the roof ice hatches. At this point, all that is left is to add the stirrups under where the reefer door will be and add the underside brake detail.

To be continued.....

I have completed installing the underside details of the milk car I am building. I used Cast AB brake detail parts from SCD (I think) and cast anglecocks and gladhands from Wiseman Model Services. For the piping I used a diagram I found in the book "Freight Cars of the Forties and Fifties."

I'm going to call this the "essence" of an underbody. I didn't quite get it right, but there are pipes, they are mostly in the right area, and they connect to things.

Now on to the paintshop!

I have been enjoying this thread.  Saturday I bought this Coke Gon from a friend.  He had built it up but not finished it.  In the last couple of days I was able to add some details.  I added under body brake gear and steps and grab irons.