Hello Guys, Some years ago Sunset put out a model of a Burlington Zephyr 9903 Injun Joe, Mark Twain Consist. I recall reading that it was still around as late as the 1970's as a display. My question is what became of this train? 
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How criminal is that! What a shame to leave something like that in that type of shape. If they had done nothing and kept it simply all together it would be better than this deplorable condition. The elements are just eating the insides of this train. Indeed it would take a ton of money just to make it cosmetically appealing. Thanks Rusty for the update.
Just curious. What would it cost to be operational and could you run on any RR tracks?
Like the confederate Air Force restores and flys old military aircraft, could a group do that with a train? (I know they were forced to change the name to commemorative Air Force, but I'm not PC)
GVDobler posted:Just curious. What would it cost to be operational
Many, many, many millions!
and could you run on any RR tracks?
Similar to steam locomotives, plus the massive liability insurance requirements, I doubt any class 1 railroad would allow it to operate.
Like the confederate Air Force restores and flys old military aircraft, could a group do that with a train? (I know they were forced to change the name to commemorative Air Force, but I'm not PC)
The big difference is, the Commemorative Air Force does NOT really need permission to fly their aircraft in the earth's atmosphere.
Hot Water posted:GVDobler posted:Just curious. What would it cost to be operational
Many, many, many millions!
and could you run on any RR tracks?
Similar to steam locomotives, plus the massive liability insurance requirements, I doubt any class 1 railroad would allow it to operate.
Like the confederate Air Force restores and flys old military aircraft, could a group do that with a train? (I know they were forced to change the name to commemorative Air Force, but I'm not PC)
The big difference is, the Commemorative Air Force does NOT really need permission to fly their aircraft in the earth's atmosphere.
That's not quite true as I think they (CAF) were involved with moving a B-36 Peacemaker years ago. They wanted to move it from one airport to another under it's own power by flying and the government said NO! Civilians can not fly long range strategic bombers in US airspace. I guess that B-29's are the biggest.
It would make a great house!
I am a member of www.milwaukeerailroadshops.org. We own Great Northern steamer 1355. It has been estimated to cost $4,000,000.00 to return it to steam. The BNSF would want $100,000,000 worth of liability coverage based in when we had the Milwaukee National Convention in Sioux City about 10 years ago, We wanted the Milwaukee passenger train brought here for the meeting. We were informed 3 days before we had to provide that much coverage to take the train from Sioux City to Sioux Falls about 80 miles.
We made other arrangements to have the Dakota and Iowa meet us in Hawarden, IA about 1/2 way. The D&I has a Milwaukee GP9 that was used to pull the train.
Dick
Sounds like a conferation of clubs that own old steam and diesel power need to buy up, as a consortium, some branch or shortline, just to have a place to run equipment. Some museums such as the Kentucky one have a section of track they run tourist trains on.
Great News !!!
The Mark Twain Zephyr shells & trucks have recently been purchased & moved to the Wisconsin Great Northern RR in Trego, WI.
Trains magazine had an article about this.
The WGN plans to restore it to opearational status for use on their short line RR.
In O-gauge, models of the MTZ have been made by 3RD Rail, MTH, & Lionel.
Here's a link from the Trains Magazine newswire about the proposed restoration.
They certainly have their work cut out for them, the MTZ is just an empty shell and trucks.
Rusty
@CBQ_Bill posted:In O-gauge, models of the MTZ have been made by 3RD Rail, MTH, & Lionel.
Except they are all relabled Pioneer Zephyr models. There are significant differences between the PZ and MTZ.
Rusty
@CBQ_Bill posted:Great News !!!
The Mark Twain Zephyr shells & trucks have recently been purchased & moved to the Wisconsin Great Northern RR in Trego, WI.
Trains magazine had an article about this.
The WGN plans to restore it to opearational status for use on their short line RR.
In O-gauge, models of the MTZ have been made by 3RD Rail, MTH, & Lionel.
Bill,
Thank you so very much for bring this great news to the Forums attention!
@Rusty Traque posted:Here's a link from the Trains Magazine newswire about the proposed restoration.
They certainly have their work cut out for them, the MTZ is just an empty shell and trucks.
Rusty
Rusty,
Thanks for the link to the Trains Magazine newswire. The article also had link to the Wisconsin Great Northern Railroad, Midwest Rail Rangers - a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, that purchased the Mark Twain Zephyr.
Below is a link to their site that explains their entire plan for the consist.
If you do a Facebook search you will find video of the move of Injun Joe and much more describing the the work currently going on. The other cars, including the dining car from the original Pioneer Zephyr, will be making the move to Trego in the next few weeks.
This link should also provide you with additional information.
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
Will they have to change the name before sensitive politically correct groups get their knickers in a knot about it?
@Rusty Traque posted:Except they are all relabled Pioneer Zephyr models. There are significant differences between the PZ and MTZ.
Rusty
Is there a compiled list somewhere of the differences? (I'm just curious).
Also, if anyone is looking at these, be aware the Lionel one suffered from a spelling error on the badging for Huck Finn. The spelled Finn with only one "n".
-Dave
The PZ, #9900, has a larger front grill that has a slight "tear drop" look to it9901 and 9902 the Twin, above the windows. The layout of the windows on the original 3 car consist are slightly different than the other Zephyrs of this series.
Pioneer Zephyr was the first. Followed by 9901 and 9902 the Twin City Zephyr (TCZ) which had grills above the cab windows that were more straight. Injun Joe, 9903 was a close match to the TCZ. But the seating arrangement and windows, ROP and baggage section were all slightly different.
These 4 were the only completely articulated sets that the Burlington purchased - the power unit was part of the articulated cars.
After these 4, the Burlington then invested in class EA's in which the power units were separate from the rest of the passenger cars. However, the early passenger consists were articulated.
If you want to see the differences between the PZ, TCZ and Injun Joe, best to google them. I have many books on the Burlington, but can not post photos unless I am the original owner of the photo.
RAY
@RoyBoy posted:Will they have to change the name before sensitive politically correct groups get their knickers in a knot about it?
We should all be glad that someone else will handle that. I'm staying out of it. I just want to take a ride on the restored Zephyr.
I have the Lionel set and it is one of my favorites from both looks and operation. But I have been disappointed that Lionel never made an add-on car for this set or any of the Zephyr sets.
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