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Hello Guys,  Some years ago Sunset put out a model of a Burlington Zephyr 9903 Injun Joe, Mark Twain Consist.  I recall reading that it was still around as late as the 1970's as a display.  My question is what became of this train? 

 

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Last edited by Allegheny
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How criminal is that!  What a shame to leave something like that in that type of shape.  If they had done nothing and kept it simply all together it would be better than this deplorable condition.  The elements are just eating the insides of this train.   Indeed it would take a ton of money just to make it cosmetically appealing.    Thanks Rusty for the update. 

GVDobler posted:

Just curious. What would it cost to be operational

Many, many, many millions!

and could you run on any RR tracks?

Similar to steam locomotives, plus the massive liability insurance requirements, I doubt any class 1 railroad would allow it to operate.

Like the confederate Air Force restores and flys old military aircraft, could a group do that with a train? (I know they were forced to change the name to commemorative Air Force, but I'm not PC)

The big difference is, the Commemorative Air Force does NOT really need permission to fly their aircraft in the earth's atmosphere.

 

 

Hot Water posted:
GVDobler posted:

Just curious. What would it cost to be operational

Many, many, many millions!

and could you run on any RR tracks?

Similar to steam locomotives, plus the massive liability insurance requirements, I doubt any class 1 railroad would allow it to operate.

Like the confederate Air Force restores and flys old military aircraft, could a group do that with a train? (I know they were forced to change the name to commemorative Air Force, but I'm not PC)

The big difference is, the Commemorative Air Force does NOT really need permission to fly their aircraft in the earth's atmosphere.

 

 

That's not quite true as I think they (CAF) were involved with moving a B-36 Peacemaker years ago. They wanted to move it from one airport to another under it's own power by flying and the government said NO! Civilians can not fly long range strategic bombers in US airspace. I guess that B-29's are the biggest.

Last edited by Casey Jones2

I am a member of www.milwaukeerailroadshops.org. We own Great Northern steamer 1355. It has been estimated to cost $4,000,000.00 to return it to steam. The BNSF would want $100,000,000 worth of liability coverage based in when we had the Milwaukee National Convention in Sioux City about 10 years ago, We wanted the Milwaukee passenger train brought here for the meeting. We were informed 3 days before we had to provide that much coverage to take the train from Sioux City to Sioux Falls about 80 miles. 

We made other arrangements to have the Dakota and Iowa meet us in Hawarden, IA about 1/2 way. The D&I has a Milwaukee GP9 that was used to pull the train.

Dick

@CBQ_Bill posted:

Great News !!!

The Mark Twain Zephyr shells & trucks have recently been purchased & moved to the Wisconsin Great Northern RR in Trego, WI.

Trains magazine had an article about this.

The WGN plans to restore it to opearational status for use on their short line RR.  

In O-gauge, models of the MTZ have been made by 3RD Rail, MTH, & Lionel.

Bill,

Thank you so very much for bring this great news to the Forums attention!

Here's a link from the Trains Magazine newswire about the proposed restoration.

They certainly have their work cut out for them, the MTZ is just an empty shell and trucks.

Rusty

Rusty,

Thanks for the link to the Trains Magazine newswire.  The article also had link to the Wisconsin Great Northern Railroad, Midwest Rail Rangers - a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, that purchased the Mark Twain Zephyr.

Below is a link to their site that explains their entire plan for the consist. 

http://rtabern.com/mtz/

The PZ, #9900, has a larger front grill that has a slight "tear drop" look to it9901 and 9902 the Twin, above the windows. The layout of the windows on the original 3 car consist are slightly different than the other Zephyrs of this series. 

Pioneer Zephyr was the first. Followed by 9901 and 9902 the Twin City Zephyr (TCZ) which had grills above the cab windows that were more straight. Injun Joe, 9903 was a close match to the TCZ. But the seating arrangement and windows, ROP and baggage section were all slightly different.

These 4 were the only completely articulated sets that the Burlington purchased - the power unit was part of the articulated cars.

After these 4, the Burlington then invested in class EA's in which the power units were separate from the rest of the passenger cars. However, the early passenger consists were articulated.

If you want to see the differences between the PZ, TCZ and Injun Joe, best to google them. I have many books on the Burlington, but can not post photos unless I am the original owner of the photo.

RAY

Interesting.  I had been unaware of this train being in existence.

My American Flyer Zephyr is currently on display at the Chicago History Museum, in their "Modern by Design: Chicago Streamlines America" exhibit.  It is at the entrance to the exhibit, on the right, below the TV.

The reason my train is on exhibit, is the original engraving on the power car.

NWL

Ok NWL, Now you need to tell us the whole story as you can't just leave us hanging trying to figure it out.  I suspect it's an interesting one.

Thanks!

Interesting.  I had been unaware of this train being in existence.

My American Flyer Zephyr is currently on display at the Chicago History Museum, in their "Modern by Design: Chicago Streamlines America" exhibit.  It is at the entrance to the exhibit, on the right, below the TV.

The reason my train is on exhibit, is the original engraving on the power car.

NWL

 

Last edited by Allegheny

Any idea on how one could "pocket" the large cardboard photo of the front of the PZ? My pockets are too small to sneak it out. Maybe raid the Museum at night? So if it is gone, just don't tell anyone it was me!

That sure would make a good auction item for the museum when they are done with the display.

Ray

That large 3-dimensional front of the Zephyr has a nice wooden frame, so it is not an easy item to move.  I considered asking about it, but realized, I had no place to put it.  

@Allegheny posted:

Ok NWL, Now you need to tell us the whole story as you can't just leave us hanging trying to figure it out.  I suspect it's an interesting one.

Thanks!

 

As for the engraving, per an article about Si Chaplin, the engineer at American Flyer who designed their model, American Flyer was working quite closely with CB&Q on their model of the Zephyr and introduced their model right about the time of the real Zephyr making its first run.  Therefore, it appears that American Flyer had this piece engraved and presented it to Mr. Ralph Budd, president of the CB&Q.  

I wish I could add to the story.  I happened to catch my Zephyr model on ebay.  From what I can determine, it was in a Chicago area collection until the early 1990s (as the collector put a tag with his name on the item and he passed in the early 1990s), was sold through an auction house out east, and then disappeared until about 5 years ago, when it came up on ebay and I purchased it.  

When the museum was planning the exhibit, they reached out to a local collector, who let them know I had this model and the museum specifically wanted my engraved item for the exhibit.  The exhibit is heavy into the Zephyr at the entrance, but later delves into all sorts of streamline designed items.

NWL

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