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Don McErlean posted:

 

Bob Nelson:  Thanks for the picture of the Wyandotte alternative, I have a few Wyandotte trucks but most are way too big for trains (mostly floor toys).  Did you restore that one?  If not finding a pressed steel toy in that shape is a real rarity, most of them I see are well played with (a testimony to their durability and play value).  Still love 'um anyway.

 

Don

The one pictured is restored but not by me.  It fits nicely on a Standard Gauge 211 flat car.

Bob Nelson

Last edited by navy.seal

Little blurry, hands shake a bit.  Here are some of my favorites:

Lionel 248 (red) with 629 Pullman and 630 obs // American Flyer 1120 Pullman labeled "Dominion Flyer" for CA market

American flyer 1097 with 1120 Pullman and 1120 obs (yup same number)  // Lionel 252 partial

Lionel 253 with 607 607 Pullmans and 608 obs

Lionel 248 (orange) with 529 529 Pullmans and 530 obs

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  • mceclip0: tinplate trains

PD - looking at your great ambulance flat, NAVY SEAL posted a Wyandotte ambulance as a possible alternative load.  I also thought it would be a great load and commented that I have a few Wyandotte trucks but they seemed too big for any flat. NAVY SEAL felt that the ambulance would fit on a 212 Standard Gauge flat.  Well, that peaked my curiosity, so I dug out my 212 and tried to mount one of my trucks on the flat.  You can see below that it does fit, after a fashion, and by removing the stakes it would center, so NAVY SEAL is correct, even my trucks would fit.  (of course I have nowhere to run a 212 but that's just details

Little big but thanks to both PD and NAVY SEAL/Bob Nelson for the idea, was fun this morning!

Don

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  • mceclip0: Wyandotte truck on 212 flat side view
  • mceclip1: Wyandotte truck on 212 flat front view

POC914Nut (is this Porsche 914 nut?)  Agree with your comment about loading up flats and gons.  The tank load is really cool and colorful, are those tanks recent toys or antiques?  In my youth, my Lionel flats held any toy car or truck that would fit and stay on (note many did not stay on annoying my Dad who often had to crawl under the tree to get them) and the my Lionel gon held many of my toy soldiers on their way to Korea.  OK I know (now) that there could be no train to Korea but I was 6 in 1950...so who knew what the globe looked like !

OBTW based on your choice of comment names  I would be Vette98NUT...for my 1998 Corvette convertible upon which I spend way too much time / money and only drive about 5000 miles per year ... but who's counting right?

Don

Last week I posted some pictures of my B&M 38 and 33 painted and decaled. Below are some updated Pictures as they are assembled and at least one of them ( the 38 on a 33 chassis) id complete and running.

DSCN6574DSCN6575DSCN6576DSCN6577DSCN6578DSCN6579

I some of the last pictures you can see the 1/2 inch metal bar stock that was made into spacers so the shorter 33 chassis could be used with the 38 shell.  A 1 foot piece of the bar stock was $4.98 in Home Depot.

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The last 2 pictures show it on the track running. It runs pretty good but takes a lot of voltage. I didn't do much on this motor except replace the brushes. I'll probably go back and replace some of the wiring and the pickup shoe that is very worn.  

The other B&M 33 might have been done this weekend except that I dropped one of the cowcatchers on the floor and it broke in two. Not a big problem I'll just take one off another 33 that I have ( i seem to have developed a 33 junkyard, I have 2 others in parts on the bench) and paint it black. Maybe next week I'll finish that one.

 

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Not quite as cool as Pete's custom work,  but a find for me.  

20200112_190712

This is part of mth set 11-5502.  I am still working on my 2816 hopper collection,  and this one cost me getting the whole set! 

(As an fyi, this was the only part of the set I was after.  So keep an eye on the for sale forum if you are interested! link)

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  • 20200112_190712
Last edited by jhz563
Don McErlean posted:

PD - looking at your great ambulance flat, NAVY SEAL posted a Wyandotte ambulance as a possible alternative load.  I also thought it would be a great load and commented that I have a few Wyandotte trucks but they seemed too big for any flat. NAVY SEAL felt that the ambulance would fit on a 212 Standard Gauge flat.  Well, that peaked my curiosity, so I dug out my 212 and tried to mount one of my trucks on the flat.  You can see below that it does fit, after a fashion, and by removing the stakes it would center, so NAVY SEAL is correct, even my trucks would fit.  (of course I have nowhere to run a 212 but that's just details

Little big but thanks to both PD and NAVY SEAL/Bob Nelson for the idea, was fun this morning!

Don

Don, that looks outstanding, albeit on a considerably bigger scale than what I tried to pull together. I am unfamiliar with Wyandotte toys, so I'll have to keep an eye out for examples.

The ambulance I used is a Lledo from around 1986. Their stuff is probably closer to 1/64-scale, but I figured in the tinplate world, that's close enough.

Paul

PD :  I agree that your Liedo is much closer to our O gauge size, but when someone mentioned Wyandotte I just had to try. 

By the way, Wyandotte is really the All Metal Products Company, founded in 1920, in Wyandotte MI with the idea of making things out of scrap metal.  At first they specialized in toy guns ( pop guns, cork shooters, etc) and for awhile were the largest manufacturer of toy guns in the US.  The began making girls toys in 29 and litho toys in 36.  In 46  they bought Hafner and began to manufacture the Hafner clockwork metal train line.  Eventually they just lost out to Marx which was an almost direct competitor both in the litho truck and metal train market and they went bankrupt in 1956.  Like Marx they are prized for their great and colorful lithography, and rugged toys with great play value.  Also like Marx, They produced the same basic truck that I pictured in many models by just changing the lithography, I have a grocery delivery truck and a tow truck version as well.  Wikipedia under "Wyandotte Toys" has some cool pictures and additional details.

Best Regards

Don

 

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:
navy.seal posted:
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I’ve had this mocked up for some time. Need to get it finished.

steve

 

Steve,

LOVE IT!!!    Reminds me of the Lionel O gauge submarine car I had as a kid.

 

Bob Nelson

Bob, that was my inspiration. I made one in O a few years ago and someone wanted it REALLY bad so I sold it.

Steve

Here's my flat car load- a tin toy truck on an Ives standard gauge flatcar; fits quite nicely!

Standard gauge flat car load 3

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  • Standard gauge flat car load 3
Fatman posted:
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I’ve had this mocked up for some time. Need to get it finished.

steve

D7EC97B7-5125-4059-B1C1-98A32E759F20

Wolverine tin sub?

If so its looking quite minty!

( yes I also have the odd tinplate clockwork boat lol but no wolverine sub .. its on my want list tho )

Yes, it’s Wolverine. Pretty decent except all the railings being bent. Haven’t tried straightening them yet.

Steve

John / Steve : OK I see the makings of a contest..."What can you get on a Standard Gauge flatcar?"  Great pictures guys, the Wolverine sub is neat, I thought it might be Wolverine but I couldn't positively ID it until you confirmed it. John, who made the tin truck.  I have not seen one like it before. 

OK here are some more "loads"  All on a Lionel 211 Standard Gauge Flat:

A Japanese cement mixer, carries the mark "sss Japan" but I have no idea what company "sss" might be.  Little small by comparison.

 

An English delivery truck labeled "Superior Express" , I believe this was actually a biscuit (cookie) tin as it is very inexpensively made and carries no country of origin or mfr label ( hence not likely imported to US officially). Simple sheet metal pressings with lithographed detail.  Unlike the cement mixes which is made up of many, even moving, parts.

Fun in the morning !!

Don

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  • mceclip0: Cement mixer on flat car
  • mceclip3: Delivery truck on flat car
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:
POC914NUT posted:

The box probably isn't nearly as exciting as what is inside...lets see it already! Lol

1AEA12BD-9078-40DE-AB24-E6264924468CI think I will need an engineering degree to unpack this animal😱

Been almost a month since I got this. Just got it out of the shipping frame and serviced it. Tests good, all the electronics seem to work. Dug out the passengers cars from my Iron Monarch set. Perfect match. Smaller than the correct presidential cars, but they look good.

Steve

1D811AAD-1831-4AF6-B84B-89B71AA8FE63

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  • 1D811AAD-1831-4AF6-B84B-89B71AA8FE63

FATMAN:  It was definitely "sss" by itself, no band or globe.  Very tiny, hard to see, in fact I missed it for quite some time.  When I put the truck in OGR forum I went over it with a magnifying glass to try and see any maker's marks and that is when I saw the "sss".  Thanks for the info.  I will assume that it is your first statement, SSS International Quality Toys, from Sohji, Japan

Thanks again

Don

John Smatlak posted:
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:
navy.seal posted:
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I’ve had this mocked up for some time. Need to get it finished.

steve

 

Steve,

LOVE IT!!!    Reminds me of the Lionel O gauge submarine car I had as a kid.

 

Bob Nelson

Bob, that was my inspiration. I made one in O a few years ago and someone wanted it REALLY bad so I sold it.

Steve

Here's my flat car load- a tin toy truck on an Ives standard gauge flatcar; fits quite nicely!

Standard gauge flat car load 3

Very Nice @John Smatlak !! First, I happen to have that ABC freight trailer- which is totally awesome looking- and also quite large. That big trailer fitting quite nicely on a single flatcar just demonstrates how awesomely, incredibly large standard gauge trains are! Very, Very cool looking layout

A meeting of two O gauge legends- a Marescot French-made Etat Pacific of 1928 and the Lionel scale Hudson of 1937. The Marescot Pacific is something I got recently, so I brought it to our monthly club gathering and another member brought his scale Hudson. Quite a treat to see the two of them together. The Marescot is indeed a beautiful model. As I understand it, these were produced by Robert Marescot in 1928, who is credited as being the pioneer of the "fine scale" model in O gauge. After 1928 Fournereau continued production of his line of trains, creating some wonders of their own. This loco has the "RM Paris" maker's mark underneath (Robert Marescot, Paris), which I understand is the means of differentiating the Marescot production from that of Fournereau, who I understand also produced versions of this model. A video is included of the engine running, enjoy!

Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 2Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 3Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 4Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 6Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale HudsonMarescot cabMarescot Etat maker's markMarescot Etat side 1Marescot Etat side 2

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  • Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 2
  • Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 3
  • Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 4
  • Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson 6
  • Marescot Etat Pacific and Lionel 700E scale Hudson
  • Marescot cab
  • Marescot Etat maker's mark
  • Marescot Etat side 1
  • Marescot Etat side 2
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Marescot Etat Pacific IMG_1685
Last edited by John Smatlak
John Smatlak posted:

A meeting of two O gauge legends- a Marescot French-made Etat Pacific of 1928 and the Lionel scale Hudson of 1937. The Marescot Pacific is something I got recently, so I brought it to our monthly club gathering and another member brought his scale Hudson. Quite a treat to see the two of them together. The Marescot is indeed a beautiful model. As I understand it, these were produced by Robert Marescot in 1928, who is credited as being the pioneer of the "fine scale" model in O gauge. After 1928 Fournereau continued production of his line of trains, creating some wonders of their own. This loco has the "RM Paris" maker's mark underneath (Robert Marescot, Paris), which I understand is the means of differentiating the Marescot production from that of Fournereau, who I understand also produced versions of this model. A video is included of the engine running, enjoy!

 

Your Marescot is in very good condition and running! Nice find. Surprisingly the picture shows the Marescot is higher than the Lionel, must be the scale difference, Marescot used 1:43. The Marescot is nice to scale such that it looks also very good with scale cars instead of Marescot or Fournereau cars.

Regards

Fred

sncf231e posted:
John Smatlak posted:

A meeting of two O gauge legends- a Marescot French-made Etat Pacific of 1928 and the Lionel scale Hudson of 1937. The Marescot Pacific is something I got recently, so I brought it to our monthly club gathering and another member brought his scale Hudson. Quite a treat to see the two of them together. The Marescot is indeed a beautiful model. As I understand it, these were produced by Robert Marescot in 1928, who is credited as being the pioneer of the "fine scale" model in O gauge. After 1928 Fournereau continued production of his line of trains, creating some wonders of their own. This loco has the "RM Paris" maker's mark underneath (Robert Marescot, Paris), which I understand is the means of differentiating the Marescot production from that of Fournereau, who I understand also produced versions of this model. A video is included of the engine running, enjoy!

 

Your Marescot is in very good condition and running! Nice find. Surprisingly the picture shows the Marescot is higher than the Lionel, must be the scale difference, Marescot used 1:43. The Marescot is nice to scale such that it looks also very good with scale cars instead of Marescot or Fournereau cars.

Regards

Fred

I was going to make a similar comment about the clear difference in scale.  Very nice machine you have there!

John Smatlak what an incredible find, the pictures and video of your Marescot Pacific are terrific.  I will be the first to admit that this thread has introduced me to a number of new European lines of trains that I never had even seen before, thanks to all.

As an aside, I could not help but notice in the background of your photos of the two engines that on your club's layout are some interesting litho tinplate structures and tinplate trains.  One of the little structures, I believe, is a Flyer pre-war No 93 Town Depot that I just managed to find at our local (Texas) train show and am about to "adopt" onto my layout but your club's lay out has others.  Perhaps you might ask the club to post some pictures of their layout.  Thanks

Don

Just returned from a train buying vacation to Texas.  Here is an unusual American Flyer 1218 engine in green with red lettering.  Have never seen any of these engines with red lettering, other than the orange 1218 engines.

The red lettering on green background does not seem to have enough contrast to be readable, so possibly that is why this does not appear to be a common variation.  The more typical variation is green with yellow or gold lettering.  

Here are some of the more typical variations with gold and yellow lettering.

NWL

Just checked "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge" and they do not list any such variation for the 1218.  The only variation that even lists red rubber stamping states that the body color was "yellow or orange".  The only green bodied variant is listed with yellow rubber stamping...So you may have indeed found a new variation. Congratulations.

Don

Don McErlean posted:

Just checked "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge" and they do not list any such variation for the 1218.  The only variation that even lists red rubber stamping states that the body color was "yellow or orange".  The only green bodied variant is listed with yellow rubber stamping...So you may have indeed found a new variation. Congratulations.

Don

I have learned over the years that the Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge book is lacking in a lot of ways.  The book is good, but only as good as the information that was reported.  There are a number of variations that have been found since the book was published over 20 years ago.  Such is the nature of American Flyer.

NWL

NWL :  I know that you are right!  I have found things that don't seem to be covered and in addition while Greenberg  is reasonable on the trains and cars it does  not touch structures such as stations etc which we know exist. 

As a quick example, Greenberg lists the 513 coach and 515 observation as only having a "green roof and green and black trim"...I have two 513 coaches and a 515 observation and they have RED roofs... lithographed so they could not have been repainted...sitting just over the desk at which I am sitting right now in my display case. 

Unfortunately, at least in my "library" it is the best I have, I sometimes get better data from O'Brien but most of this stuff is old.

Do you know of a more authoritative reference or web site ... if so could you post it.  Thanks. 

Anyway, regardless of Greenberg, you have found a cool loco !!

Don

John Smatlak posted:

A meeting of two O gauge legends- a Marescot French-made Etat Pacific of 1928 and the Lionel scale Hudson of 1937. The Marescot Pacific is something I got recently, so I brought it to our monthly club gathering and another member brought his scale Hudson. Quite a treat to see the two of them together. The Marescot is indeed a beautiful model. As I understand it, these were produced by Robert Marescot in 1928, who is credited as being the pioneer of the "fine scale" model in O gauge. After 1928 Fournereau continued production of his line of trains, creating some wonders of their own. This loco has the "RM Paris" maker's mark underneath (Robert Marescot, Paris), which I understand is the means of differentiating the Marescot production from that of Fournereau, who I understand also produced versions of this model. A video is included of the engine running, enjoy!

A tinplate club!? Where is it? BTW that is one beautiful engine!

Don McErlean posted:

NWL :  I know that you are right!  I have found things that don't seem to be covered and in addition while Greenberg  is reasonable on the trains and cars it does  not touch structures such as stations etc which we know exist. 

As a quick example, Greenberg lists the 513 coach and 515 observation as only having a "green roof and green and black trim"...I have two 513 coaches and a 515 observation and they have RED roofs... lithographed so they could not have been repainted...sitting just over the desk at which I am sitting right now in my display case. 

Unfortunately, at least in my "library" it is the best I have, I sometimes get better data from O'Brien but most of this stuff is old.

Do you know of a more authoritative reference or web site ... if so could you post it.  Thanks. 

Anyway, regardless of Greenberg, you have found a cool loco !!

Don

Please post pictures of your 513 and 515 cars with red roofs.  They sound interesting.  I am guessing there is no green on the car?

As for a better reference or website for American Flyer Prewar O gauge, there really is none.  I have just acquired a vast knowledge of Flyer O gauge after collecting it for over 35 years.  There are a few friends I network with to share knowledge with or call if I have questions.  I also have a vast inventory of advertisements and paperwork, which help to fill in some of the holes that are not covered by the Flyer catalogs.  

NWL

Last edited by Nation Wide Lines
Will posted:
John Smatlak posted:

A meeting of two O gauge legends- a Marescot French-made Etat Pacific of 1928 and the Lionel scale Hudson of 1937. The Marescot Pacific is something I got recently, so I brought it to our monthly club gathering and another member brought his scale Hudson. Quite a treat to see the two of them together. The Marescot is indeed a beautiful model. As I understand it, these were produced by Robert Marescot in 1928, who is credited as being the pioneer of the "fine scale" model in O gauge. After 1928 Fournereau continued production of his line of trains, creating some wonders of their own. This loco has the "RM Paris" maker's mark underneath (Robert Marescot, Paris), which I understand is the means of differentiating the Marescot production from that of Fournereau, who I understand also produced versions of this model. A video is included of the engine running, enjoy!

A tinplate club!? Where is it? BTW that is one beautiful engine!

You mistake tinplate club as the club having its own layout, as opposed to a tinplate club that meets at various clubmembers' homes.  I recognize the place and have been there a couple of times.  After following John's postings, I am going to have to make sure I meet him the next time I make one of the club meetings Los Angeles.

NWL

NWL :  Here are the pictures of the 513 Observation and 515 Coach with the red roofs.  You were correct there is "No Green" anywhere  on the cars. 

Here is the side view, other side is identical.  I do have a second coach but it is the same as this one so I didn't include it.

I think these are about the least expensive passenger coaches Flyer made , my data (also from Greenberg) says manufacture between 1925 -1929

 

Here is the end view.  The non-platform end of the Observation is exactly like that of the coach except it has 513 over the door. Both cars state..."Made in USA" in the lithography just under the number in the first portion of the yellow section. Another interesting feature is that cars are tab/slot (or more like tab / hoop) couplers but the tab coupler on the observation swivels as it is connected to the floor via a rivet.  The couplers on the coaches are fixed although the hole for the rivet is present in the floor. I expect that the hoop provided sufficient side to side motion to allow the cars to go around a curve.   I have seen these referred to as "Hummer" type cars although they were introduced somewhat later and are slightly longer. I have always assumed they were pulled with a Hummer type 3 mechanical loco.

Their method of manufacture is interesting to me as an engineer.  The entire car except the floor , axles , and wheels is one piece of lithographed sheet metal.  This one piece of sheet metal includes the observation platform on the observation car, it is  not a separately added piece.  Obviously lithographed flat then folded (like Origami) to make the car.  Tabs are folded into slots in the floor to fasten the car to the floor.  The journal boxes are part of the upper sheet and simply hold the axles via being positioned well in from the end of the axle.

 

Anyway there they are ... Red, Yellow, Black (no Green)  enjoy!

Don

 

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  • mceclip0: 513 obs and 515 coach side view
  • mceclip1: 513 obs and 515 coach end view
Don McErlean posted:

NWL :  Here are the pictures of the 513 Observation and 515 Coach with the red roofs.  You were correct there is "No Green" anywhere  on the cars. 

Here is the side view, other side is identical.  I do have a second coach but it is the same as this one so I didn't include it.

I think these are about the least expensive passenger coaches Flyer made , my data (also from Greenberg) says manufacture between 1925 -1929

 

Here is the end view.  The non-platform end of the Observation is exactly like that of the coach except it has 513 over the door. Both cars state..."Made in USA" in the lithography just under the number in the first portion of the yellow section. Another interesting feature is that cars are tab/slot (or more like tab / hoop) couplers but the tab coupler on the observation swivels as it is connected to the floor via a rivet.  The couplers on the coaches are fixed although the hole for the rivet is present in the floor. I expect that the hoop provided sufficient side to side motion to allow the cars to go around a curve.   I have seen these referred to as "Hummer" type cars although they were introduced somewhat later and are slightly longer. I have always assumed they were pulled with a Hummer type 3 mechanical loco.

Their method of manufacture is interesting to me as an engineer.  The entire car except the floor , axles , and wheels is one piece of lithographed sheet metal.  This one piece of sheet metal includes the observation platform on the observation car, it is  not a separately added piece.  Obviously lithographed flat then folded (like Origami) to make the car.  Tabs are folded into slots in the floor to fasten the car to the floor.  The journal boxes are part of the upper sheet and simply hold the axles via being positioned well in from the end of the axle.

 

Anyway there they are ... Red, Yellow, Black (no Green)  enjoy!

Don

 

Actually, those cars are described as versions B & C under the 513 & 515 descriptions.  They are fairly common and they are poorly described in the Greenbergs guide.  

NWL :  Well you got me there...my version of the Greenberg Prewar Flyer book (1987 ) has no B or C versions of these cars listed, just the green roof ones in a 3 line entry.    So maybe someone has updated the data in a later version.  Anyway given their low cost at the time of manufacture I would expect them to be fairly common. 

Don

Don McErlean posted:

NWL :  Well you got me there...my version of the Greenberg Prewar Flyer book (1987 ) has no B or C versions of these cars listed, just the green roof ones in a 3 line entry.    So maybe someone has updated the data in a later version.  Anyway given their low cost at the time of manufacture I would expect them to be fairly common. 

Don

Don,

I have not looked at the 1987 edition in years.  The guide was updated in the late 90s (I think in 1997), with that version having a blue cover showing a 1096 engine.

NWL

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