Calling all MoPac experts

Hi -

Before I sell these I should find out what they are. The combo car came unlighted and as you see the yellow stripe is above the blue boarders - is this a 1958 variant?  See the plastic steps? When I got it it was unlighted - could that be?  Seems all 4 of the wheels on the truck are non-conducting.  I switched out an older AF frame to light it. Here's an observation car, too - is this a '58?  Note the little copper points sticking out of the blue border.  There are holes for those copper points in the combo car but they are missing.  I don't want to sell 'em before I know what they are ... 

Is this a lie?   (see below)

The Missouri Pacific Eagle Streamliner Set was first made as #20475 in 1958.
The colored stripes on the cars went through the car doors. This set is very rare.

#24856 Eagle Hill combo *** THE CAR FOR SALE
#24859 Eagle Lake Coach
#24863 Eagle Creek vista dome car
#24866 Eagle Valley observation car *** THE CAR FOR SALE

 

Thanks so much!

Tom120180502_163234

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Rusty is probably correct. Scratch my earlier post. Now that I'm home I looked at the catalog for the 60's set with one engine and it has 4 illuminated cars. However, the photos of the cars in the Greenberg guide show only the observation with those rivets on each side of the nameplate.

Below find two pictures of legit Nos. 24856 and 24866 (that just happen to be on my train wall ). The example combination submitted above is clearly a repaint, as one can note by the lettering, the curious blue overspray on the vestibule door, the overly wide yellow roof stripe that also obscures the thin line of blue above the stripe, and the presence of the nail holes on the simulated nameplate. The only car of the four that should have speed nail heads or the holes for them associated with the nameplate is the 24866 observation. All four set cars should have internal illumination, of course. The submitted sample of a 24866 above appears to be genuine. This is in agreement with the opinions offered by Rusty and Jerry above. Also, a pic of the two Eagle sets from 1958 is attached for reference.

Hope this helps.

Bob

24856248661958 Mo-Pac Sets

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Gentlemen - thanks for replying.  If I understand correctly, the observation is a legit one from '58?  So is the other a repaint done by someone by taking another combo car and repainting it to look like a legit combo?  Or is it from a "cheap" one engine, 3 car set?  Why does it have the nail holes, I suppose that's the clue, finding what kind of combo car has those?  Both sides of the trucks are non-conductive and it came (from a case in a hobby shop, it's AF section untouched for years!) unlighted.  If it were somebody trying to make a rare car, you'd think they would have lighted it.  I lighted it with an old AF stamped frame. The hobby guy wasn't looking to pull a fast one, if it's repainted someone did it a while back, I'd guess.

dummyI have a dummy A where on one side you can see what I believe to be quality control issues.  Note the yellow stripe here is at the "top" and not on the blue border like the combo car I showed.

 

 

Also, someone told me at the end Gilbert was "Frankensteining" things out the door.  Could that be what the combo car is?

Thanks 

Tom

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milwaukeeroadtrackman posted:

Gentlemen - thanks for replying.  If I understand correctly, the observation is a legit one from '58? 

Yes, so it appears.

So is the other a repaint done by someone by taking another combo car and repainting it to look like a legit combo? 

Yes.

Or is it from a "cheap" one engine, 3 car set? 

No.

Why does it have the nail holes,

Because the shell used for the repaint has holes. Every complete 1958 Eagle set with provenance that I have had the fortune to observe has nails only on the observation (faux) name plate.

I suppose that's the clue, finding what kind of combo car has those?  Both sides of the trucks are non-conductive and it came (from a case in a hobby shop, it's AF section untouched for years!) unlighted. <snip>

The combination car was repainted and cobbled together after the fact. The paint is not consistent with known legit samples or with known Gilbert practice. The Eagle sets from both 1958 and 1964 were each internally consistent in terms of paint finish and features (Please note that the blue bands on the 1964 Eagle passenger cars do not cross onto the vestibule doors).

dummyI have a dummy A where on one side you can see what I believe to be quality control issues.  Note the yellow stripe here is at the "top" and not on the blue border like the combo car I showed.

The marks and damage on the dummy A above are most likely due to wear and exposure accumulated over 60 years. Unfortunately, the piece was not protected very well.

Also, someone told me at the end Gilbert was "Frankensteining" things out the door.  Could that be what the combo car is?

When collectors use the term "Frankentrains" it means that the pieces are unusual for the type of train (e.g., a passenger car inserted into a freight set, or vice-versa) or an uncatalogued store special was put together to eliminate excess stock . The pieces themselves were of good quality that passed QC. Defective pieces were usually sold out of the employee store individually. To attempt to claim one has an unusual set, the trains need to be found in a set box with individual boxes with the trains to establish provenance. Gilbert factory practice in the postwar period was not as helter-skelter as this collection of pieces suggests.

Thanks 

Tom

See above. Again, I hope this helps.

Respectfully,

Bob

Thanks for the replies - so the owner in St. Paul Scale Model Supply claimed he didn't remember selling that combo car to me - I'm probably the only one in a year that bought any AF stuff from him - like $1000 worth - the clerk who sold it to me was standing there and I during my talk with  the owner I recalled after I picked it out of the case the clerk walked me over to the shelf and I bought a couple of the '91-'95 Mopac remake cars (coach and combo) so I could have pointed to the clerk and brought him into the conversation, but by then it was clear the owner's a jerk, and if he supported me the owner would probably have fired the clerk later, so I just said "sell this fake car to another poor sucker" and left it on the counter and walked out, but like a good former Milwaukee Road Trackman I spit on the floor in case the owner wanted to follow me up to the parking lot so I could clean his clock - he didn't show.  Hopefully his business is failing.  (Naive) buyer beware.

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