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I purchased several of these inexpensive O scale three aspect block signals online. These have 4 leads instead of 3 (as many red/green signals do). Would I be able to activate these with an MTH Scale ITAD? I already have these on my layout operating MTH cantilever signals (which are also three aspect).  As always, thank you.

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  • signal: Three Aspect Block Signal
  • wires: Four wires
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These signals are rigged to run using a common anode (the top wire in your photo with one resistor for the whole group). The color leads are the cathodes off the LEDs. Anodes go to positive, cathodes to negative.

How do you want your signals to operate? There's a lot of options when it comes to signaling. The ITAD is generally used to detect a train at a particular location. Will your signal show aspects other than STOP (red) and CLEAR (green)? Do you want yellow to mean something? Will you have your line organized into separate blocks?

Certainly the ITAD will produce a signal of some kind that will indicate that a train is present. But what do you intend to do with that information?

EDIT:

What I mean is, the ITAD will produce an "electrical" signal.

Your MTH cantilever bridge probably shows yellow for some short period of time after the train clears the ITAD. That's some sort of timing mechanism built into the signals; it's not from the ITAD. Didn't I read that there were tiny 555 timers built into the signal heads?

Last edited by Consolidated Leo

You are correct about the timers built into the MTH signal heads.

I do not intend to daisy chain the signals together for prototypical operation.  I think Azatrax offers such a device. However, I would like these to work similarly to my ITAD/Cantilever set up mention earlier. I don't the aspects to "mean" anything, just cycle through the colors.

Here's a thought . . .  Z Stuff signals seem to have it all! Prototypical designs, integrated circuitry, super easy installation! You can even link them in a snap! Unfortunately, they're a bit pricey. What say you?

Thank you!

Consolidated Leo posted:

...

Your MTH cantilever bridge probably shows yellow for some short period of time after the train clears the ITAD. That's some sort of timing mechanism built into the signals; it's not from the ITAD. Didn't I read that there were tiny 555 timers built into the signal heads?

Correct.  Most (all?) MTH 3-aspect signals have a built-in timer (based on the 555 IC chip) that drives yellow for several seconds before turning green.  In other words, you cannot drive yellow indefinitely.

One thing is for sure, the OP will need a DC power supply to drive the 3 "naked" LEDs in that signal head.  The MTH 3-aspect signals have built-in AC-to-DC power supplies to make them directly connect-able to AC track voltage or AC accessory voltage.

As Leo says, it comes down to exactly what is desired.  Since it appears you are willing/able to do some DIY assembly, there are all kinds of low-cost eBay electronic modules (a few dollars) that perform AC-to-DC conversion and timing functions that can emulate the 3-aspect behavior of the MTH signals...and hence be compatible with an ITAD.  I'd say less than $4...with additional heads less than $2 since one DC power supply can drive multiple heads.

mth 3 aspect diy

Those look like eBay signal heads from seller "wehonest" (or something like that).  If so, they too sell electronic modules to control multiple LEDs.

 

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  • mth 3 aspect diy
Last edited by stan2004
C&NW/UP posted:
Here's a thought . . .  Z Stuff signals seem to have it all! Prototypical designs, integrated circuitry, super easy installation! You can even link them in a snap! Unfortunately, they're a bit pricey. What say you?

I think all signal systems and the poles that they sit on are vastly overpriced. With 3D printing of signal structures and cheap electronics to make them function, the days of the $65 signal are numbered.

I find signaling to be one of the most underdeveloped aspects of the model railroading hobby in all gauges despite many attempts to promote one system over another. None of them have really caught on. I like the Atlas Century 2000 system that does a good job with the electronics to achieve something like prototypical behavior between blocks. But man is it expensive. We can do better.

You know that the manufacturers would love to corner this market. How many signals would you have on a modest sized layout. Maybe 10 blocks, in both directions, with a double mainline. Lay down some dwarfs in the yards and we're talking about a large number. The smaller manufacturers have a hard enough time just trying to keep their heads above water. Azatrax, Z-Stuff, my hat goes off to them for trying to fill the gaps left by the bigger organizations. But their market penetration is spotty at best.

You don't find people rallying around a signaling system the way they do for DCS and Legacy/TMCC. Of course those systems are necessary to run the trains. Signaling just isn't where they want to spend their time and effort.

And so it will most likely continue to be a spotty market. But for those who want to put in the time and effort, I think signaling can be a very fascinating area to explore.

C&NW/UP posted:

 

I purchased several of these inexpensive O scale three aspect block signals online. These have 4 leads instead of 3 (as many red/green signals do). Would I be able to activate these with an MTH Scale ITAD? I already have these on my layout operating MTH cantilever signals (which are also three aspect).  As always, thank you.

That's a nice signal. Where'd you get them?

As for Azatrax, their block signal module will operate independently and drive a timed three-light LED signal with a 4-second yellow aspect. Here's the link: http://www.azatrax.com/block-signal-circuit.html

Here's an old thread about hooking up a bare 4-wire, 3-aspect LED signal head to the Lionel IR "ITAD".  Lots of detail about the actual yellow-green delay circuit used in the MTH signal head(s) and how to modify it to apply to a 4-wire LED assembly.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...al-with-lionel-153ir

The thread also shows the inexpensive "wehonest" 4-wire, 3-aspect LED signal head and controller board which has the yellow-green delay function.  Their controller board even has what amounts to a built-in ITAD-like occupancy detector.  If you already have an ITAD, you could use the ITAD instead to activate the LED sequence.  Photo from thread copied below:

AutoDelaySwitchInstruction_3aspect01

A separate OGR thread showing other bare wire signal heads from "wehonest":

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-cheap-signal?page=1

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  • AutoDelaySwitchInstruction_3aspect01
Last edited by stan2004

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