Can I Use Lionel AMC/ARC Log Loader (6-24115) With Lionel Legacy Base?

Yes, I believe you can use it that way using the serial port to 2 wire serial bus used with early TMCC style accessory controllers. Topic regarding those older 2 wire serial data devices like the Track Power controller. https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...22#22266383372665722

Also, you can use TMCC icons, instead of CAB1, there just was not a log loader specific menu list I could find (I just tried using CAB2 firmware 1.7). Again, you could choose TMCC instead of CAB1 style and that still controls it, however, there are not specific log loader icons menu system for CAB2. So being honest, TMCC mode doesn't help you on this specific item, but just something to keep in your back pocket of knowledge.

That said, IMO, you ae better off in the long term adding LCS and a serial 2 module and wiring off your 2 wire serial data devices off that. I also understand that it is a jump in cost to get into LCS (starter cable, SER2 module, wifi module, etc).

Seen here https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...e-amc-arc-log-loader

The LCS way of connecting (Layout Control System)

http://www.lionel.com/products...rter-2-ser2-6-81326/

http://www.lionel.com/products...ower-supply-6-81499/

BTW I prefer the subdued colors of the AMC/ARC version of the Log Loader anyway. The blue base, tan framework, and red roof are far more subtle than the original green base and yellow framework.

Not my video, but a great example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGm13elLtnc

My layout in progress

And yes, I use the SER2 and LCS WIFI along with an iPad tablet running LCS for my control panels.

Aye!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of stuff.

Attached is my current layout and how it's currently wired up. I'm using FasTrack.

What specific items would I need to be able to use this accessory with the MTH DCS Remote? If I can't, then what specific Lionel item(s) do I need to use it with the Cab-2 LEGACY remote?

While I'm currently using the MTH Z-1000 Brick (40-1000A) for power, I should shortly be receiving the MTH Z-4000 transformer (40-4000) for powering my tracks. Planning on using the Z-1000 for powering accessories and maybe even using the spare CW-80 for powering some of my accessories - probably the Menard's buildings.

The other question which seems obvious is that I need some type of dumping log car to get the logs off the train into the tray (I guess I could manually do that until I get a dumping log car ).

Also, which FasTrack piece of track do I need to use with the dumping log car?

And - sorry for all the questions - can I use other logs as the Lionel logs are not real looking. I've purchased several sets of the MTH 8-piece Log Set (30-50008) to use with my other log carrying flat cars. Thinking those MTH may not work as they are not flat.

Thanks - and again - sorry for all the questions. I just want to know what I might be getting into as the auction for the Log Loader in a never before opened box ends Sat. Just want to be sure I know all the other costs that are involved.

The log loaders assume round logs, they have to roll freely or it'll jam up.

@paulp575 posted:

Aye!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of stuff.

Attached is my current layout and how it's currently wired up. I'm using FasTrack.

What specific items would I need to be able to use this accessory with the MTH DCS Remote? If I can't, then what specific Lionel item(s) do I need to use it with the Cab-2 LEGACY remote?

#1 you can control TMCC engines now if you have the 50-1032 MTH TIU to Base cable connecting. The problem is on the Lionel base side of this, they do not allow Legacy flavor of TMCC commands directly into the serial port via that method. Again, Lionel made the rules, so they want to sell you the LCS system and cable with an LCS serial 2. Such that the 50-1032 cable plugs into the SER2 LC box, that then plugs into the legacy base. And per that little note earlier, if you are going to use the screw terminal serial data out of the SER2 module (example to your AMC/ARC log loader, then you need a second SER2 module and DPI cable in the chain to perform the serial port to the TIU connection. Again, just to be clear today, if you have the 50-1032 cable between your base and the TIU, then you technically can control TMCC equipment with commands sent from a MTH DCS remote- but there are some limitations and so forth.

My advice, drop the idea of a one remote utopia. Lionel engines are best run with a Lionel remote, MTH engines best run with an MTH remote, and LCS items best run from LCS, but that is just my opinion and experience.

#2 "specific Lionel item(s) do I need to use it with the Cab-2 LEGACY remote?" Again, right now, nothing more than that serial cable plugged into the serial port.

Lionel cable (6-14191) which has a DB9 connector on one end and 2 wires that connect to the TPC on the other. (Or in your case, the AMC/ARC log loader serial input) Again, just follow the AMC/ARC Log loader manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/72-4115-250.pdf

The only difference is in this picture you have a Legacy base VS a CAB-1 base. Both have a serial port, both work the same way in this regard.

Also, see this topic about connecting all this up. https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ase---tpc---plus-dcs

The other question which seems obvious is that I need some type of dumping log car to get the logs off the train into the tray (I guess I could manually do that until I get a dumping log car ).

Also, which FasTrack piece of track do I need to use with the dumping log car?

Answer: depends on what car you use. There are a bunch of different types out there. Example, I like the K-line and later Williams log dumping either were magnetically activated or radio controlled. The thing about them I like the realistic motorized slow dumping action.

Lionel and others made plunger activated spring loaded dump and I hate these cars. They just slam the logs and then still need you to manually reset the mechanism.

MTH also made motorized slow dumping log and gondolas that uses the shoe style contacts. I modified mine and installed an MTH whistle board to activate the motor via bell or whistle offset from the trnsformer and removed the sliding pickup shoes for dump anywhere I wanted action.

For anything either shoe or magnetic actuated you need this http://www.lionel.com/products...ating-track-6-12054/

And if you wanted to make it command control http://www.lionel.com/products...troller-otc-6-14185/ and then you are just using your wired serial daisy chain with these older black style TMCC modules.

@Vernon Barry - As shown in my diagram, I DO have the MTH TIU AND the cable (50-1032). And if I have to use the Lionel LEGACY remote to run locos, then I'll do that (just trying to keep it all simple, but I guess with 2 different manufactures that's just not going to happen.

I also have one Lionel Operating Track (6-12054) that I use for the Polar Express Hot Coca Car (2028120). The only log dumping car I currently have is the Alaska Log Dump Car (6-26749) which has it's own manual triggering mechanism. But looking at the flat car I don't see why the Lionel Operating Track wouldn't work.

The Owner's Manual for the Log Loader discuss using it in Cab-1 base and controller. I presume it will work using the LEGACY base and remote (just have to program it as a Cab-1? item.

What part does the SER-2 play in all of this? I don't have a smart device to use their app. That's why I've not yet bought the SER-2. I am currently running my 1 or 2 Lionel Command Control locos using the LEGACY remote and base - which is connected to the MTH TIU using the serial post on the LEGACY base.

I guess I need a drawing to figure all this out!

What additional Lionel items will I need to use this accessory? SER-2? Cable(s)?

UPDATE #1:

I think I have it figured out:

I need to remove the existing cable (MTH 50-1032) that goes between the 2 serial ports on the LEGACY base and the TIU. Replace it with the LCS "Y"  cable that came with the LEGACY base.

Can I connect ANY LCS model to the free end of the serial cable? Or must I connect it to the SER2 and then a ASC2?

Stop connecting the TIU serial to the Legacy base.

As I said, ask yourself, what is easier to use? You have a CAB2. Dies it make any sense to even attempt to use the DCS remote and then backwards try to run a Lionel via the DCS remote? It's not the one remote utopia.  Right now, with what you have hardware wise, as I said, you do not get full legacy command over the 50-1032 unless also used with a SER2 and PDI power cable. It would be one thing if you didn't have a CAB2 legacy remote, but you do, so use it directly for Lionel control of Lionel engines and accessories.

#1 the Legacy supplied Y cable is going to end in the wrong gender to connect to your 6-14191 or 6-14195 cable to the AMC/ARC loader. http://www.lionel.com/products...-cable-6-ft-6-14191/ Maybe you can reverse the gender but also unsure of polarity at that point. Understanding serial transmit and receive is important. Not knowing exactly how that cable is wired internally I do no know what conflicts you might run into as the end going to the older cab base is supposed to receive commands from that base.

Again, bare minimum, you need a 6-14191 or 6-14195 cable to connect to the AMC/ARC log loader to make it listen to commands from the Legacy base. You just plug that into the base serial port.

Optional, you then want to connect all this extra stuff (like the TIU serial cable), you then might need 2 each SER2 LCS modules and the PDI starter Y cable that provides power, the one more PDI cable to daisy chain the LCS modules. This is a bit costly. Even with discounted parts, I thinking this is approaching $150 or more in LCS components.

Again, LCS parts iif going that route.

The LCS way of connecting (Layout Control System)

http://www.lionel.com/products...rter-2-ser2-6-81326/

http://www.lionel.com/products...ower-supply-6-81499/

And if adding a second SER2 module to also connect the 50-1032 MH TIU to Base cable

You need another short PDI cable for the second SER2 module

http://www.lionel.com/products...di-1ft-cable-6-81500

And last as discussed, you need either a

http://www.lionel.com/products...-cable-6-ft-6-14191/

or

http://www.lionel.com/products...cable-20-ft-6-14195/

to connect the base to the AMC/ARC  Log loader and any other modules that use the old school 2 wire serial data.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Again, LCS parts iif going that route.

The LCS way of connecting (Layout Control System)

http://www.lionel.com/products...rter-2-ser2-6-81326/

http://www.lionel.com/products...ower-supply-6-81499/

And if adding a second SER2 module to also connect the 50-1032 MH TIU to Base cable

You need another short PDI cable for the second SER2 module

http://www.lionel.com/products...di-1ft-cable-6-81500

And last as discussed, you need either a

http://www.lionel.com/products...-cable-6-ft-6-14191/

or

http://www.lionel.com/products...cable-20-ft-6-14195/

to connect the base to the AMC/ARC  Log loader and any other modules that use the old school 2 wire serial data.

I need to use DCS as many of my locos are MTH PS3. Plus I have many LCS/TMCC locos so I need both systems. My preference is DCS, but if I have to run LCS with the Lionel locos so be it. My preference is the MTH DCS Remote as I find it easier to use.

I have found what seems to be the definitive answer (from "the DCS Companion"):

For the following discussion, if there is a Lionel LCS module plugged into the Legacy Command Base’s serial
port, MTH cable #50-1007 or #50-1032 may not be plugged into the serial port. Instead, a Lionel SER2 module is required and the cable must be plugged into its serial port.

So this tells me I need the SER2 and use the "Y" cable to connect it and the LEGACY base to the DCS TIU.