First of all, as of now, CN 6218 has no mainline plans. But what if a group could change that? Is it even possible? I don't know much about the locomotive, so if anyone knows, let me know if 6218 could be a good candidate for restoration. From looking at the locomotive, I can tell it needs new paint, a roller bearing tender, probably a 26L air column, cab signaling, maybe an MU controller, and a very dedicated crew!
Let me know if this can work or if it's a dead dream!
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Railfan Brody posted:First of all, as of now, CN 6218 has no mainline plans. But what if a group could change that? Is it even possible? I don't know much about the locomotive, so if anyone knows, let me know if 6218 could be a good candidate for restoration. From looking at the locomotive, I can tell it needs new paint, a roller bearing tender, probably a 26L air column, cab signaling, maybe an MU controller, and a very dedicated crew!
Let me know if this can work or if it's a dead dream!
It'll take a little more than that. Don't forget money, lots of it.
Outside of the 6218 being brought up to current Canadian boiler codes, it'll have to brought up to current US boiler codes if run in the US.
Plus, you don't know what you don't know about the boiler until you start taking it apart.
Rusty
It really is a leap of faith to undertake a project like this. I think it would be best to move it to the US. It ran a lot of excursions here.
Question number one: does Fort Erie Ontario want to get rid of the 6218?
http://fess.dsbn.org/docs/guid...rochure.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Second, it would also need $$$ to prep an move the 6218. It looks like it's isolated from a railroad. You're gonna need panel track, heavy equipment and manpower to move it. No small task.
I present the following issue of IRM's Rail and wire, which contains an article about removing Santa Fe 2903 from Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry:
http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw154.html#2903b
Third, where would it go in the US? There would have to be some sort of organized coalition to prepare, receive, store and be prepared to start work long before the moving the locomotive, assuming Fort Erie wants it gone.
Rusty
Just my opinion but, why bother when JJJ has GTW 6325 in his collection, inside the Age of Steam Roundhouse.
And IRM has GTW 6323.
Rusty
Hot Water posted:Just my opinion but, why bother when JJJ has GTW 6325 in his collection, inside the Age of Steam Roundhouse.
Because it could double head with 6060!
645 posted:Is 6218 even on live rail? If 'no' then it needs to be craned/trucked to live rail - or put on a heavy duty flat for transport like the 2100 was moved from Washington state to Ohio in April 2015. So that is obstacle #1 to a restoration.
More realistically the biggest issue for steam is where to run it and getting mainline compatible passenger cars to pull behind same. While quite a few museums have useable passenger cars most aren't qualified for mainline use as I think they need to meet Amtrak compatible specifications. So something like the 1920's open platform Lackawanna coaches at the Illinois Railway Museum (they have seen almost continuous use at IRM since the 1970's but are well maintained) I doubt will be allowed on a mainline carrying passengers these days.
The "easiest" part is actually restoring the engine. There are many engines that are capable of running on the mainline but do to a variety of factors can't so do ranging from CSX's current 'no steam allowed' policy, required minimum insurance coverage and so forth.
You would be better served focusing attention on engines that have the best chance to run on a mainline such as NKP 765 or SP 4449 which have a proven track record in recent times. I'm not saying ignore engines like 6218 but realistically speaking best thing to do with those is to get them under cover to at least slow down the deterioration from weather - even a roof with no sides would be an improvement. This way if conditions change in the future to permit restoration to operation you have a better starting point.
Another thought for you - may be better off instead of restoring 6218 to look at a machine such as SP&S 700 since the 700's 1472-day time expired last December. So to get 700 running again would be mainly new boiler tubes and inspection since I believe most everything else is in excellent condition from what I understand. That would entail less time and money than getting 6218 running again - just being realistic here. Add in that 700 is housed under cover connected to live rail so one less issue to consider. Of course the biggest obstacle for 700 coming back to life is the usual suspect - money!
There is no way every single steam engine can (or should be) returned to operation - it's just not a practical dream. Now if you win the lottery and donate the millions to 6218 so it can return to steam then that would be great too! I suggest you focus your dream on one or two steam engines you like and support same - you are a member of FWRHS (NKP 765) so you are already doing this which is good. It is counterproductive to keep saying "let's fire up the xxxx" if you are not going to be actively involved with dollars and/or volunteering your labor. This is where Ross Rowland was very effective - he was able to get corporate sponsorship to make the American Freedom Train a reality as an example. It also helped that Mr. Rowland had friends/contacts at major railroads who supported steam operations so he didn't just say "let's restore the xxxx" - he found ways to make it happen!
I have no big plans for 6218, it's just a dream. In fact, I saw a documentary about 6060's restoration in the 80's, and 6060's caretaker, Harry Home, had trouble getting the project done in time for Expo 86' because the project had to be approved by the Canadian government. I don't know if this is still a thing today though. But the only thing I don't like is that 6218 would have to run with ditchlights if it ran in Canada.
Railfan Brody posted:Hot Water posted:Just my opinion but, why bother when JJJ has GTW 6325 in his collection, inside the Age of Steam Roundhouse.
Because it could double head with 6060!
Fat chance of THAT happening.
Hot Water posted:Railfan Brody posted:Hot Water posted:Just my opinion but, why bother when JJJ has GTW 6325 in his collection, inside the Age of Steam Roundhouse.
Because it could double head with 6060!
Fat chance of THAT happening.
I'm sure that if a CN Mountain type could double head with a Royal Hudson, two stable mates could double head if 6218 operates again.
645 posted:Is 6218 even on live rail? If 'no' then it needs to be craned/trucked to live rail - or put on a heavy duty flat for transport like the 2100 was moved from Washington state to Ohio in April 2015. So that is obstacle #1 to a restoration.
More realistically the biggest issue for steam is where to run it and getting mainline compatible passenger cars to pull behind same. While quite a few museums have useable passenger cars most aren't qualified for mainline use as I think they need to meet Amtrak compatible specifications. So something like the 1920's open platform Lackawanna coaches at the Illinois Railway Museum (they have seen almost continuous use at IRM since the 1970's but are well maintained) I doubt will be allowed on a mainline carrying passengers these days.
The "easiest" part is actually restoring the engine. There are many engines that are capable of running on the mainline but do to a variety of factors can't so do ranging from CSX's current 'no steam allowed' policy, required minimum insurance coverage and so forth.
You would be better served focusing attention on engines that have the best chance to run on a mainline such as NKP 765 or SP 4449 which have a proven track record in recent times. I'm not saying ignore engines like 6218 but realistically speaking best thing to do with those is to get them under cover to at least slow down the deterioration from weather - even a roof with no sides would be an improvement. This way if conditions change in the future to permit restoration to operation you have a better starting point.
Another thought for you - may be better off instead of restoring 6218 to look at a machine such as SP&S 700 since the 700's 1472-day time expired last December. So to get 700 running again would be mainly new boiler tubes and inspection since I believe most everything else is in excellent condition from what I understand. That would entail less time and money than getting 6218 running again - just being realistic here. Add in that 700 is housed under cover connected to live rail so one less issue to consider. Of course the biggest obstacle for 700 coming back to life is the usual suspect - money!
There is no way every single steam engine can (or should be) returned to operation - it's just not a practical dream. Now if you win the lottery and donate the millions to 6218 so it can return to steam then that would be great too! I suggest you focus your dream on one or two steam engines you like and support same - you are a member of FWRHS (NKP 765) so you are already doing this which is good. It is counterproductive to keep saying "let's fire up the xxxx" if you are not going to be actively involved with dollars and/or volunteering your labor. This is where Ross Rowland was very effective - he was able to get corporate sponsorship to make the American Freedom Train a reality as an example. It also helped that Mr. Rowland had friends/contacts at major railroads who supported steam operations so he didn't just say "let's restore the xxxx" - he found ways to make it happen!
I wish I lived in the 60's when you could ride in a gondola car behind a 4-8-4 at 60 miles per hour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a restoration project in those days because there were men who worked on these machines every day, and knew them inside and out, and also, insurance and FRA regulations weren't as strict as they are today.
There was an appeal a few years ago for about $500,000 to give 6218 her first face-lift in years. I think that's all you're going to see in the restoration direction.
http://www.trha.ca/2010/03/for...toration-of-cnr.html
http://fess.dsbn.org/docs/guid...rochure.pdf?sfvrsn=0
I feel the overall climate for steam locomotives in North America is becoming slowly un-friendly. As the knowledge base slowly shrinks, and the corporate boardroom friendliness evaporates, the steamers will slowly be parked. There are bright lights, and we all know them, but in general mainline railroad steam will become a too-expensive, too-bureaucratic, insurance-nightmarish morass.
The possibility of static displays being restored to low pressure steam operation is possible, but there might be an alternative. I think for our future generations to see the BIG steam locomotive experience up close, the Disney / movie effects / engineering interpretation approach is an option. Mechanical restoration and hydraulic operation of key components in animated displays has been done. The Cruquius steam pump museum in the Netherlands is a wonderful example of old steam technology preservation. The engine/pump is fully operational through custom-designed modern hydraulics. The option of full steam restoration wasn't an option, so no operating boilers. I think that's the key to future museum locomotives. No mainline operation, and no live boiler to horrify the insurance executives - but make it alive somehow, and capture the viewer's imagination. Just my $0.02's worth or less.
Might be a better idea of getting # 6213 operational. Being owned by the City of Toronto, it would be a great tourist ride down to niagara falls and back on weekends.
Now I have no idea about the current situation with this loco, but it seems to be in an ideal location
Al
albertstrains posted:Now I have no idea about the current situation with this loco, but it seems to be in an ideal location
Al
I don't think I'd call a land locked museum in the middle of a metropolitan area ideal. The costs alone to move it to live rail would be cost prohibitive.
In 1967 I saw 6218 pulling an excursion train on the old Central Vermont RR from New London, CT to Brattleboro, VT. I chased it locally in my Mom's 65 Plymouth, but once north of Willimantic, CT I let her go...was a hell of a good day indeed.
Bob
In fall 1969, I was going to General Motors Institure in Flint, MI. I caught the GTW/CN passenger train to Toronto and rode the 6218 on a big triangle trip through Stratford with a stop at St. Thomas' Pinafore Park and an 0-4-0T . BTW, the real Col. Harlan Sanders of KFC fame rode the business car that day - pretty feeble even then. The open door baggage car was right behind the semi-vanderbilt tank and after dark, it was magical running back to Toronto at 80 mph. Great stuff..........
Railfan Brody posted:Hot Water posted:Just my opinion but, why bother when JJJ has GTW 6325 in his collection, inside the Age of Steam Roundhouse.
Because it could double head with 6060!
6060, would that by chance be the unit that is growing roots into the ground up in Stettler, AB?
It may seem like a long shot, but that's how most restorations start out. Think about the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. A couple of guys attending the NKPHTS convention in Fort Wayne in the early 70's got to talking about the 765 on static display and said: "Wouldn't it be great to see this thing operational again?" A little under a decade later, 765 was moving on its own. And where did they restore it? On a small lead track in a small vacant lot, and that's about it.
645 posted:Railfan Brody posted:Think about the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. And where did they restore it? On a small lead track in a small vacant lot, and that's about it.
How did they get 765 out of Swinney Park to live rail? Right now that would be CN 6218's biggest obstacle to get an operational restoration started as it is not connected to live rail.
Give me a minute to explain...
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