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So it appears that the information that traditional smaller, less expensive O gauge stuff would only be on-line was faulty?  The 44 Tonners at $250 MSRP seem like good value.  The ZW-L is now close to $1000 dollars MSRP.  Thomas set which was 200 bucks is now 250 bucks.  That's a big increase.  Glad I already have a ZW-L .  Like Marty, I'll be ordering the Cab 3 base.

I also notice the American Flyer catalog, while small compared with the 250 page O gauge behemoth, is 44 pages.  Should please someone, I'd hope.

This catalog suggests that Lionel's financial health is,  as stated, reasonably good to great.  You don't plan for this huge product variety and amount of innovation if you are the equivalent of Lionel in 1968.  This catalog speaks to optimism and ambition, not doom and gloom.  Good news for the hobby considering the loss of K-Line, Weaver and the downsizing of MTH.

Last edited by Landsteiner
@Landsteiner posted:

So it appears that the information that traditional smaller, less expensive O gauge stuff would only be on-line was faulty?  The 44 Tonners at $250 MSRP seem like good value.  The ZW-L is now close to $1000 dollars MSRP.  Glad I already have one .  Like Marty, I'll be ordering the Cab 3 base.

I also notice the American Flyer catalog, while small compared with the 250 page O gauge behemoth, is 44 pages.  Should please someone, I'd hope.

No, the information was correct. The hard copies of the catalog only contain the higher end scale stuff whereas the digital version contains both scale and traditional.

@pbuff posted:

So is the Safety steam the "New Feature to be announced" on the N&W Class A? Also, why does the Min Curve say O54 on page 16, but O72 on the previous page?  Typo?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the new BIG announcement was being able to address the engine with 4 digits as opposed to 2.   Other engines have already had variations on where steam sprays out of the engine or tender.

Another notable feature is that I believe he said there was a speaker in the engine… I don’t think that’s been done before?

There are a couple of videos fromLionel on YouTube in regards to the new engine and the CAB3. They don’t go into too much depth but they do a high-level overview of the features.

@MartyE posted:

I'm definitely in for the Base 3 to start.

Base 3

My question is, has Lionel discontinued the manufacturing of any handheld controllers?  It’s great that the CAB3 is compatible with the CAB1 in the CAB2 handheld remotes, but if you don’t have your hands on either of those emotes already, are you forced to use the phone app?

I like that the CAB3 allow control of all these operating systems.  

C4FBB4F5-83BD-4E1E-ACED-1D8BFE854EEA

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@VJandP posted:

My question is, has Lionel discontinued the manufacturing of any handheld controllers?  It’s great that the CAB3 is compatible with the CAB1 in the CAB2 handheld remotes, but if you don’t have your hands on either of those emotes already, are you forced to use the phone app?

I like that the CAB3 allow control of all these operating systems.  

C4FBB4F5-83BD-4E1E-ACED-1D8BFE854EEA

The CAB1 L was in the catalog, but there is not a Cab 2 to be found in the new catalog.

So far it looks like the NYC 0-6-0 and B&O Bobber Caboose. I would also consider the PRR 0-6-0 if they make the tender MTH previously made for that version. The catalog art shows them all the same. WWII Class A would be nice but doubt I spring for one of those. I always liked the B&A Berkshire but probably not enough with the current tally I would have so far. I also like the Angela Trotta Thomas Hudson boxcar.

Last edited by Randy_B
@MartyE posted:

Yep.

Disappointing.  That doesn’t move the needle for me at all.   And I resent the tease of something so “exciting” they kept it a secret and then its something like that.   I assumed it would be a new smoke or other operating feature.   (No disrespect to anyone who thinks that’s an awesome innovation…I don’t have enough operating Lionel stuff for 2 digit addressing to be a problem for me)

Been wanting one of the Genesis Lion Chief Plus 2.0 locos since they were initially cataloged last year. I knew from Ryan's comments that they would be offering more, especially the various Anniversary liveries.

I'm in on the Midnight Blue #100 version. Great looking loco.

But will need some suitable passenger car sets. Not sure those 2-packs on the following pages are what I want. Will be looking around for some other options, including other manufacturers.

EDIT: Offhand, the other item that caught my eye was one of the LC Plus 2.0 Hudsons. If I do get one of those, Lionel Lines is likely to be my choice

Last edited by johnstrains
@Keith1366 posted:

It does look like they are not wanting to make the remotes and wanting to move to using your phone or tablet to control trains with, which for someone like me just getting setup in O scale will leave me without a remote. Phone control is ok but I would rather have a remote.

As posted above the Cab1L is still being made.  I'm not sure it's a matter of wanting to make a Cab3 Hardware remote but able.  Just too much changing too quickly IMO.

I’m a sucker for scale PolEx stuff. I really like the thought of this car, but it appears to be a blend of both versions of the scale PolEx passenger cars. The lettering is above the stripe and windows which is consistent with the early release of the cars (black roof).  But, it has a snow roof like the second release (which had the lettering below the stripe and windows). In other words, as illustrated, it’s not correct for either release.

I’m in if they make a proper black roof version to match the original release. ED17D217-C950-4788-9BBC-FD2A9EB2B624

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I’m a sucker for scale PolEx stuff. I really like the thought of this car, but it appears to be a blend of both versions of the scale PolEx passenger cars. The lettering is above the stripe and windows which is consistent with the early release of the cars (black roof).  But, it has a snow roof like the second release (which had the lettering below the stripe and windows). In other words, as illustrated, it’s not correct for either release.

I’m in if they make a proper black roof version to match the original release. ED17D217-C950-4788-9BBC-FD2A9EB2B624

I'm in for that as well.

@MartyE posted:

I'm in for that as well.

Do you have white roof or black roof cars?  Does the “snow” on the white roof cars have a thickness/texture or is it smooth such that it could be painted black to match the early cars?  

Would be great to know what they are actually intending to build.  I can’t imagine they are planning to release it as drawn given it matches neither release of the exiting cars.  

@Farmall-Joe posted:

Could someone define what a "force coupler" is?  Is this where it continues to open when you dont want it to and you force it shut with a zip tie LOL...

Force coupler was first introduced in the VL Niagara and basically replaces the manual operation of increasing/decreasing the chuff labor. The drawbar has a sensor that can tell when the locomotive is pulling a sizable load. Depending on the weight of the load determines how much labor the locomotive will produce.

@GG1 4877 posted:

The horse cars are interesting, but it would be nice to have an option without sound.  At the MSRP I can find a brass one.  I know they will be discounted somewhere, but I'd still want to rip the electronics out.

Well if you do that, I'd buy the electronics off you.  I like the horse car idea, and the fact it has sounds, but I think CNW only ran heavyweight ones. Keep it in mind!

The CNW Berkshire was a surprise, that's the biggest freight steamer they had, and hardly any other CNW heavy freight steamers have been made.  I wondered if Lionel would make a pig version of their VL stock cars, and I'm looking forward to getting at least the sound car from it. 

Last edited by Cheap&NothingWasted

It is again time to show my ignorance ...

If I were to purchase the new command base, but still wanted to use a hand held remote, I would need to keep the old base for recharging the remote, yes? Also, would the two bases interfere with each other (besides competing for limited space on the control panel) in any way?

I don't have that big of a layout and I wonder if  the juice of a new base is worth the squeeze.

Thanks,

Jim

The Santa Fe Berkshire is ugly and different from other ATSF steam in looks because I believe the SF Berks were purchased from another railroad (looks like the Boston and Maine) during the war and all SF did was paint “ATSF” on the side of the cab.   They didn’t alter the paint scheme to be more “Santa Fe” until after the war.   Since I model ATSF in WW2 I may have to add one of these oddities to my list.

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@Randy_B posted:

Is this the first time they have offered this one with the open spoke drivers? Looks nice - I would be tempted as well.

The open spoke drivers are truly a nice feature on this version of the engine.  I can't say for certain if this is the first time for open spoke drivers, but I personally don't recall seeing them previously.

I fixed the item number (2232040) in my original post, accidentally deleted last digit when inserting the photo.

Last edited by GregM

Just did a quick spin through.  Overall it looks to be a wonderful catalog.  The B&A Berk looks amazing!   The PRR A5 also looks tempting.  As a mostly semi-scale, hi-rail modeler, I am a little disappointed that there are no Lionmaster type steam offerings.  Was really hoping Lionel would be quick to fill the MTH RK void.  I’ve been hoping for a Lionmaster PRR T1 with LC 2.0.   I’ll continue patiently waiting and hoping…  

@Alec_6460 posted:

The Santa Fe Berkshire is ugly and different from other ATSF steam in looks because I believe the SF Berks were purchased from another railroad (looks like the Boston and Maine) during the war and all SF did was paint “ATSF” on the side of the cab.   They didn’t alter the paint scheme to be more “Santa Fe” until after the war.   Since I model ATSF in WW2 I may have to add one of these oddities to my list.

ATSF had 15 Baldwin Berkshires which they built.  #s 4101-4115

ATSF had 7 Lima-built T1A Berkshires they acquired from the Boston & Maine.   #s 4193-4199    These were only kept from 1945-1949.

Lionel uses the old K-Line tooling for the Boston & Maine Berkshire.  It's a gnarly looking locomotive. 

The CNW Berkshire was a surprise, that's the biggest freight steamer they had, and hardly any other CNW heavy freight steamers have been made. 

I second that - now I'll have a choice in a few years between a used 3rd Rail CNW H1 or a used Lionel CNW 2-8-4 (when funds are available) to fill in the missing spot in my CNW roster

So somebody be sure to order a bunch to help populate the future second-hand market! Other than that, I found the horse cars and the ATSF Black Bonnet 2-10-4 attractive, and as always a bit of cleverness in the buildings/structures and O27 sections. Glad to see innovation in the new command base - I'm still all conventional so I'll likely adopt whatever is current in command control in a few years. With all those 2-10-4s I was hoping to see a CP Selkirk, but the tooling would be radically different, so its absence is understandable.  The rocket booster train is impressive too. But nothing besides that CNW Berk would fill a hole in the roster, so I'll wait and see what comes next time!

I’m in for a Veterans cabbage. I wish the SP SW1 was #1006 and not #1000, I’d probably order that too. I volunteer at the Southern California Railway Museum and see the real #1006 quite a bit.

The KCS 2-10-4 is incredibly tempting, but I just don’t have $1750 to spend on trains haha. I look forward to seeing them on people’s layouts when they come out.

Dang... Now THAT was a lot of Amtrak and CP diesels (7ish SD90MACs)!  Honorable mention to the CN ES44AC.

As a steam and VIA Rail fan though, I am disappointed... and somewhat salty.  Oodles of Atlas Premier previously announced in Amtrak engines and passenger cars in many variations, and now a staggering amount of Lionel Amtrak Legacy and Lionchief plus 2.0 in engines and cars....  Is there a massive sponsored campaign I don't know about going on????

(Would it have been such a pain for ANY company to do even just ONE engine and/or passenger car in the classy Blue and Yellow to offset the frankly ridiculous number of Amtrak offerings??? Who is in Lionel that seems every year to be a CP diesel fanboy???)



-edit-    And those are my initial thoughts on the 2022 Lionel volume 1 big book

Last edited by DylTrains

"If I were to purchase the new command base, but still wanted to use a hand held remote, I would need to keep the old base for recharging the remote, yes?"

Remotes are set up for alkaline battery power, so do not require recharging unless you use rechargeable batteries.  Cab2 command base would no longer be needed for anything is my reading.

"Also, would the two bases interfere with each other (besides competing for limited space on the control panel) in any way?"

No need for two bases and yes, we have always been told no more than one command base per layout.  Cab 3 base should be all you would need it seems from the catalog description.

@Landsteiner posted:

"If I were to purchase the new command base, but still wanted to use a hand held remote, I would need to keep the old base for recharging the remote, yes?"



YES, recharging can only be done with the Legacy #990 or #993 expansion pack.  Better the use the 993.  I would bet having the CAB3 and the 990 both powered at the same time would fight each other communicating to the remote.

There are a few items that interest me, I do have questions on one of the items:

Page 17 Vision Horse Cars - I can’t explain it but I find these cars very intriguing. The PRR car would look great on my passenger train. I don’t think these were used on freight trains as I would think you would want your horses getting to where ever they are going quickly.

Page 28 A5 0-4-0 Switcher - Are these made from the old K Line molds or did they buy MTH’s molds? The MTH A5s looked more scale than the K line A5s. Don’t get me wrong I owned 2 of the Kline A5s and never owned the MTH version. The MTH version was 15”, Kline’s were 17” my Legacy B6 is 17.5”. Makes me think these are from Kline molds so I probably will pass unless I hear that they bought MTH molds and the 17” length was a typo.

Page 105 Amtrak Passenger cars - What I find real interesting is that these are 18 1/2” in length. Is that not way too big for traditional size? If I owned a scale Amtrak engine these would be on my must buy list. I was assuming these are MTH tooling but I thought Atlas purchase those molds.

Page 204 - Transfer Station - this was always one of my favorite MTH operating accessories. Glad to see Lionel got the tooling. As I don’t have a home layout and my club has the MTH version probable slim chances of me purchasing but I do like it.

JohnB

I note that cab3 base updates will be done via wi-fi/cab3 app so no issues with having to use a computer as has been necessary for some systems in the past.  For example, as a long time Mac user who cannot be bothered to use Windows emulation software, this was one factor that turned me off DCS in the early years before smart devices and apps. Wi-fi and a smart device app makes eminently more sense in 2022.  Of course, then we have the issue of Lionel trying to keep the app up to date for both iOS and Android, so not necessarily completely problem free perhaps.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

As someone who lives about 40 minutes away from it, the Black River & Western SW1 set is VERY tempting.

I’ll say I’m pretty impressed seeing all the MTH tooling now with Lionel electronics, both in the less expensive and the LEGACY product lines.

About 5 minutes away from me. I wish they would have done the steam engine, but guessing it is way different from their toolings.

My Likes:          Atlantic Southern Steam Locomotive and Southern Wood Coaches

                          Soo Line RS-27 and the Soo Line F7's.   

My Dislike:        No more Cab-2 controllers.  I'm glad I ordered an extra Cab-2 control system a couple of                                     years ago.  I thought this may happen.  Only way to get my Cab-2 controller is from my cold                                 dead hands!



                   

Just a thought, but if a custom run could be done of this, would anyone be interested??

An idea I had earlier could be a “what if” scheme of a Virginian Railway Class A. In real life, the Virginian tried several time to get the N&W to build them some locomotives, A’s and Y’s in particular! The N&W never agreed to an order for them and the VGN ended up going with C&O inspired steam power. When the Virginian had an opportunity to grab some former N&W power though, they jumped on it (they were able to acquire several Y3’s that had gone from the N&W to the Santa Fe during WW2)! The Virginian at one point even include a “Virginian Class A” in one of their company posters!

just an idea…302B2E9A-6A87-40D3-8CEB-8C7811CAD2EEFD4F4844-D5E4-42DB-AE5C-81BCC6E53633

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@Landsteiner posted:

"I didn't see a price on that,"

MSRP for the cab3 base is about $500.  Haven't seen any street prices except for Mr. Muffin, who has it at MSRP so perhaps a short discount item since he usually discounts a bit from MSRP?

No information about whether the cab3 app will continue as free as the current LionChief app is.

I would suspect that since there is no remote with Base 3, that it would include at least 1 download free.  At least that would be the way I would do it.  Any additional downloads not on that account would be a charge.  Again at least that's what I would do.  I can't believe they would sell you a base and then have to buy the app on top of that to use it.

So if I had an iPad and an iPhone both on the same Apple ID the one download would apply to the account so both devices would be able to get it.  If a friend came over without a remote and wanted to join in he would have to purchase the app.

I also noticed the LCS WiFi module is absent as well.  Would have loved to see a NIC on the Base3.  As long as the WiFi is more robust then I guess I can live without it.

Last edited by MartyE
@Greg - Mi posted:

My Likes:          Atlantic Southern Steam Locomotive and Southern Wood Coaches

                          Soo Line RS-27 and the Soo Line F7's.   

My Dislike:        No more Cab-2 controllers.  I'm glad I ordered an extra Cab-2 control system a couple of                                     years ago.  I thought this may happen.  Only way to get my Cab-2 controller is from my cold                                 dead hands!



                   

lmk if something changes your mind

@MartyE posted:

I would suspect that since there is no remote with Base 3, that it would include at least 1 download free.  At least that would be the way I would do it.  Any additional downloads not on that account would be a charge.  Again at least that's what I would do.  I can't believe they would sell you a base and then have to buy the app on top of that to use it.

So if I had an iPad and an iPhone both on the same Apple ID the one download would apply to the account so both devices would be able to get it.  If a friend came over without a remote and wanted to join in he would have to purchase the app.

I also noticed the LCS WiFi module is absent as well.  Would have loved to see a NIC on the Base3.  As long as the WiFi is more robust then I guess I can live without it.

Indeed Marty, the Base3 includes a Cab3 download in the price. Not sure if one or more is part of the deal.



Pete

Another interesting item for me is:

    Page 69 - Black River & Western Excursion Set After purchasing the New Hope and Ivyland Excursion Set I find myself becoming a fan of these tourist line sets. I visited the BR&W several times when I lived in NJ and PA. Lionel did a great job on the NH&I set so I would expect the same type of result on this set. One concern is pricing with the list at $1100. The NH&I set listed at $1000 and had a larger Diesel engine and a fourth coach. I know inflation is going crazy so $100 is not a roadblock but holly cow!

    Also hopefully Lionel will continue producing the Legacy Expansion set which includes a Cab2 and a charging station. I feel the same as the forum member (Greg-Mi) who said “ they will have to pry my Cab2 from my cold dead hands”

JohnB

Last edited by JohnB

I'll have to look. Going to be a good long look all evening and hopefully Ryan and Dave will talk in length about the Class A with and without the cover over the steam turret(maybe someone can poke them into talking about that when they're live).

Note that the #1210 is shown with "multiple Bearing Crossheads. Only engines 1200 - 1209 had the multiple bearing crossheads. 1210 should have the alligator crossheads.

@JohnB posted:


Page 105 Amtrak Passenger cars - What I find real interesting is that these are 18 1/2” in length. Is that not way too big for traditional size? If I owned a scale Amtrak engine these would be on my must buy list. I was assuming these are MTH tooling but I thought Atlas purchase those molds.



This is the tooling Lionel introduced about 10 years back.  They are not 1:48 scale cars but look better proportionately as the reduced length is combined with a reduced cross-section on the car.  They went with the HHP8s that Lionel offered at the time as well which was also proportionately reduced down from 1:48.

Another item that interests me (I keep finding stuff the more I look):

Page 63 Reading and Northern F9 AB Set - Although not a tourist line I have ridden on R&N, BM&R “tourist excursions” many times. Only negative is I would have to buy a bunch of passenger cars. Also the new list of $1150 for the AB set is up from $1000 which is what AA, AB, F, E sets used to cost which is up 20%. Come On Man!

JohnB

@superwarp1 posted:

YES, recharging can only be done with the Legacy #990 or #993 expansion pack.  Better the use the 993.  I would bet having the CAB3 and the 990 both powered at the same time would fight each other communicating to the remote.

Another option is to pick up a 9v battery charger. They're small, reliable, and available for under $10. That's what I did a couple of years ago, and I haven't looked back.

Or, you can just use alkaline batteries.

@JohnB posted:

Another interesting item for me is:

    Page 69 - Black River & Western Excursion Set After purchasing the New Hope and Ivyland Excursion Set I find myself becoming a fan of these tourist line sets. I visited the BR&W several times when I lived in NJ and PA. Lionel did a great job on the NH&I set so I would expect the same type of result on this set. One concern is pricing with the list at $1100. The NH&I set listed at $1000 and had a larger Diesel engine and a fourth coach. I know inflation is going crazy so $100 is not a roadblock but holly cow!

All we need now is a West Chester RR set! They can essentially use the same tooling for the passenger cars as the New Hope set and could do a GP38 as the motive power (WCRR 7706).

Gotta say, I’m underwhelmed. Then again I’m mostly a semi scale guy. I don’t think Lionel has any interest in filling the Railking gap. I was kinda hoping they would. And I’m not really sure who in the heck they are marketing the s2 turbine set to? If you’re going to make a semi scale turbine, why buy the bantam tooling from MTH? Why not buy the Railking imperial S2 tooling? But, I don’t make the decisions at Lionel.

Im glad a lot of people found things they like in the catalog.

Nothing for me.

Re: CP Military Heritages.  I hoped for the entire fleet, but color me disappointed.  Again.  Lionel took a similar tooling shortcut as MTH by not to modifying their SD90 model.  Neither changed their SD90 cab to the SD70ACU style.

Whereas MTH used their SD70ACe model to match the ACU cab but not the longer SD90 body, Lionel just used the whole old SD90 body and painted them heritages.  While the MTH SD70ACe models looks right coming at you, the longer body and faceted tail is absent.  Lionel has the massive engine body, but the cab is obviously wrong.  Visually, it's six-of-one or half-dozen of the other as to the shortfall we are supposed to accept if we want CP Military Heritage engines.  But it is a massive shortfall to the customer, nevertheless. 

MTH 20-21500-1

MTH CP 7022

Lionel

As for the other SD90 choices, the two CP Heritage with block and scroll heralds suffer the same cab issue as the military versions.

I had also hoped to see the black NS and regular red CP SD70ACU rebuilt-SD90s.  If I were buying, the only right SD90 offered is the UP patched in NS which is as sold prior to conversion to SD70ACU.  This one is at least close to accurate.

One should try to say something good to offset bad.  To Lionel's credit, even with the wrong tooling, they are doing the CP Army green 7020 and the CP Air Force 7023 which MTH did not in 2020 v2.  That makes Lionel the only O manufacturer to offer all the CP military engines.  Hopefully, Lionel will not screw up the D-Day 6644 paint with slime green color like MTH did in their Premier (Thumbs down MW/RF/AE).

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@Keith L posted:

Is the Hudson Lionel's tooling or former MTH tooling?

They look to be Lionel's semi scale Hudsons from years back.

The LionChief Hudsons in the catalog aren't the same engines as the "semi-scale Hudsons from years back," assuming you're talking about the TMCC LionMaster Hudsons, and they're not MTH tooling.

These versions in the catalog are the smaller LionChief Hudsons, the same as other baby LC Hudsons which came out previously. (These baby Hudsons can't be considered semi-scale.) Among other differences, these are 19" long. The LionMaster Hudsons were 22" long. Another quick visual give-away is the classification lights. Those on the LionMaster are separately applied, prototypical in appearance, whereas those on the cataloged LC baby Hudsons are completely different, just molded into the shell.

Many folks have wondered for a long time why-oh-why doesn't Lionel bring back the outstanding LionMaster Hudson molds.

LionMaster Hudson:

Last edited by breezinup

After 42 years of collecting trains, there are few things that I still want or need.  I had been hoping for a LC+2.0 Wabash FM.  Not yet.

I haven't been in it quite that long, but that's were I am, too. I can speed read new catalogs, there are so few things I need. I'd been hoping for a LC+2 N&W J and Daylight. Not yet (also). Can't believe they haven't done those - they'd sell like hotcakes.

Last edited by breezinup

The SP Daylight scale F7s are of interest. Knew those would be coming out eventually - surprised it took this long. If it were assured that they'd match the MPC era 15" aluminum Daylight passenger cars, and the more recent aluminum 18" Daylight passenger cars (which matched each other perfectly, amazingly), I'd be very interested. Given Lionel's color issues of recent years, however, there's probably only a very slim chance they'd match, so it's a wait-and-see-them-first item.

I want most of the steam engines just because I like them but after having some time to look it over, I'm not too sure. I will definitely hold off on the CAB3 until I need it. The Class A is cool but not on my wishlist.

Either an 0-6-0 and an Atlantic, or just a Berk, or just a 2-10-4. That's what I'm considering now.

I would scoop up those coal hoppers if the doors opened. Opening doors are critical for my layout.

We'll see. I'll probably look at the catalog a hundred times over the weekend and see what I think. I do think it's a great catalog!! The horse cars and doodlebugs are very cool!

I'd love to see a LC+ 2.0 version of the new Dash 8 LC locomotives introduced in this catalog at some point in the future.  I'd buy a UP LC+ 2.0 locomotive if they ever decide to make one with the new tooling.  After enjoying the benefits of LC+ and LC+ 2.0 with the awesome speed and cruise control, I can't bring myself to buy just a "regular" LC locomotive without that feature.

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My two cents is rarely worth a minus 2 cents on this board, but I'll chime in anyhow.  I only did a quick browse through the on-line catalog.  The price increases and $100 for a cheaply molded boxcar are ridiculous in price IMHO.  All the catalog prices told me I have enough trains to last a lifetime!  I have the UP turbine still on order, and 2 of the Mohawks on order - the gray version and the pacemaker version.

I will order the base 3, just for to keep up with technology.  I did not notice a DB-9 based serial port, which I felt was essential.  Perhaps I skimmed through the feature set too quickly.  I like the  B-6's from MTH with Legacy in it.  I always am a sucker for the sound cars.  I would hope the pig palace set has a better sound set than the battery operated pig palace had.  That car sounded like a skunk smells!  I still have to look more slowly through the catalog.  I do prefer browsing through and marking up the printed catalog with my wants.

It is a full catalog with lots of neat stuff, but in my opinion, $2,000.00 engines are not in most train operator's budgets.  Like many retired train folks, I am on a fixed income, that doesn't grow just because a I see things in a catalog I like.

I also very much dislike Lionel's practice of saying "all new product" or "all new tooling", when the reality is the tooling came from elsewhere, is just reused after a long time absence, and is not ALL new.

Lionel has forgotten product lines they used to make, even under comic book man.  I would like to see product offered in the Polar Railroad, as I have a sizeable investment in that product line.

Lionel has also forgotten that they used to make an awesome combination of a talking caboose that interacted in real time with a talking engine.  Can't beat that for stereo sound! Dave, try out an old set (engine and caboose) and get a few new ideas how to incorporate those features with Legacy!

That's part of the problem when your product director, and head of engineering are so young, and have very limited exposure to Lionel's product history.

So please bring back Polar Railroad, and quit making fake Polar Express freight cars!

I'll close with prices for these trains, with limited competition, is really starting to blow the roof off the market!  I don't think the increased prices have any base in the current inflation rates.  Banks aren't giving us 7% interest.  Still below 1%! If I decide I want lots of items, I will have to be like the Jesse James train gang! Cash in my gold!

For me, I see no reason not to buy the Cab3 base. Here's my logic:

I bought the cab 1 when first out, the cab 2 (Legacy system) when first out, a Cab1L as an extra controller, so now logically I suppose I must have the Cab3 base to continue this fun tradition.

My first thought was "why buy this" which slowly (maybe really quickly) changed to "why not buy this".

Still trying to ignore the cost...

Most likely nothing.  Lionel has all but abandoned the traditional O gauge market, save for some sets and licensed/holiday stuff, which I have no interest in.  The Conrail GP20 is interesting but I’m not sure it’s worth the price.

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

@breezinup posted:

The LionChief Hudsons in the catalog aren't the same engines as the "semi-scale Hudsons from years back," assuming you're talking about the TMCC LionMaster Hudsons, and they're not MTH tooling.

These versions in the catalog are the smaller LionChief Hudsons, the same as other baby LC Hudsons which came out previously. (These baby Hudsons can't be considered semi-scale.) Among other differences, these are 19" long. The LionMaster Hudsons were 22" long. Another quick visual give-away is the classification lights. Those on the LionMaster are separately applied, prototypical in appearance, whereas those on the cataloged LC baby Hudsons are completely different, just molded into the shell.

Many folks have wondered for a long time why-oh-why doesn't Lionel bring back the outstanding LionMaster Hudson molds.

LionMaster Hudson:

Could not agree more. I have this one and love it. Would buy another with newer LC+2 tech if ever released.

I have been looking for the MTH PRR A5 0-4-0 for years because it is more scale size than my K-line version (also Lionel's).  The A5 in this catalog looks like it might be MTH's version, although it is hard to tell.  "All new product" and "wireless drawbar" make it sound like it is not the old K-Line tooling.  Hopefully someone can confirm one way or the other.

Last edited by CAPPilot

Definitely a Class A, 1210 or 1211.  The new command base is on the list too.

I haven't tried to buy something this new in a very long time.  How long is it before we can pre-order?  How or where can we pre-order?  My concern is missing the opportunity as I believe some of these will be quiet popular.  I know they say "built to order," but does that mean everyone that wants one can get one?  Any idea on lag between pre-order and receipt of product?  I'm guessing a year plus?

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.  Most or all of my prior purchases were magazine, online, or train show.

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

Oh, I have plenty of scale stuff in HO… plus I’m not a millionaire lol.  I guess Lionel has decided where the market is going 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well after the past two Lionel catalogs hitting me hard between the Acela and Strasburg 90, this catalog was a nice break. I am in for:

  • Amtrak Phase V NPCU
  • Vision Line Pig Stock Cars (TBD on the Roadname)
  • Woodside Chapel Car
  • LC 2.0 PRR Doodlebug (Steal of the Catalog)
  • Monsters Inc Scream Canister Tank Car


Then there are some accessories I like but nothing I really need to preorder. I like the Southern Atlantic but after Lionel messing up the Southern 4-6-0, I will wait to see what it looks like before ordering.

@N&WGuy posted:

I really thought there’d be more N&W rolling stock to go with the A’s, but very enjoyable catalog! Too bad Lionel didn’t do any Canadian Pacific ES44AC’s, I would’ve preordered those as well if they had… Maybe MrMuffin’s could do a custom run of some? Haha 😄

I have asked Mr Muffin to consider a special run of a Central Maine and Quebec ES44ACs. The Central Maine and Quebec is owned by the Canadian Pacific. Would you be interested? It’s a very sharp paint scheme.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/647711/

@Burl posted:

Definitely a Class A, 1210 or 1211.  The new command base is on the list too.

I haven't tried to buy something this new in a very long time.  How long is it before we can pre-order?  How or where can we pre-order?  My concern is missing the opportunity as I believe some of these will be quiet popular.  I know they say "built to order," but does that mean everyone that wants one can get one?  Any idea on lag between pre-order and receipt of product?  I'm guessing a year plus?

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.  Most or all of my prior purchases were magazine, online, or train show.

You can preorder anytime starting now.  Most of the online dealers will have their prices up.  Built to order means they only build what's ordered.  The only extras are if a dealer orders more.  Lionel will post a shipping schedule once preorders are collected.  Your guess of a year or so is probably accurate.

Does anyone else thing Atlas won?

I was waiting for this catalog before ordering from either Lionel or Atlas. The Atlas Models are cheaper and in many cases higher quality. Thoughts?

See the attached PDF. I took the prices from Mr Muffin on a number of items that were practically the same model between Atlas 21/22 and Lionel 2022. Also, the 2021 C2 from Lionel had more favorable prices. The Genesis went up by $90?



Atlas O 30138032 - Premier - F40PH Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase IV #404

Lionel L-2233722 - F40PH Amtrak # Phase IV

$ 557.96

$ 566.99

Atlas O 3007093 - Premier - Amfleet Passenger Car "Amtrak" Phase V

$ 112.46 Ea.

Lionel L-2227330 - Amtrak Amfleet Phase V Coach two-Pack

$ 327.99 ($164.00 ea.)

Reading F7's

$989.92 for 2

Lehigh Valley LEGACY F7 AA Set #562, #566

$ 1,079.99

Atlas O 3007033B - Horizon Passenger Car "Amtrak" #54041

$ 134.96 ea

Lionel L-2227270 - F40PH Amtrak Phase III 21" Passenger 2-Pack

$368.99 ($184.50 ea)

Atlas O 30138045 - Premier - P-42 Genesis Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase V #173

$ 557.96 (scale)

Lionel L-2234010 - Genesis Amtrak #100



$ 494.99 (traditional)

2021 2I $404.99

LIONEL 2227050 - 2000S WOOD COACH "STRASBURG" #1 (2-CAR) SET 1

$ 359.99



LIONEL L-2227440 - NEW YORK CENTRAL COMBINE/COACH 2-PACK

$ 368.99





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@SeptaTony posted:

Does anyone else thing Atlas won?

I was waiting for this catalog before ordering from either Lionel or Atlas. The Atlas Models are cheaper and in many cases higher quality. Thoughts?

See the attached PDF. I took the prices from Mr Muffin on a number of items that were practically the same model between Atlas 21/22 and Lionel 2022. Also, the 2021 C2 from Lionel had more favorable prices. The Genesis went up by $90?



Atlas O 30138032 - Premier - F40PH Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase IV #404

Lionel L-2233722 - F40PH Amtrak # Phase IV

$ 557.96

$ 566.99

Atlas O 3007093 - Premier - Amfleet Passenger Car "Amtrak" Phase V

$ 112.46 Ea.

Lionel L-2227330 - Amtrak Amfleet Phase V Coach two-Pack

$ 327.99 ($164.00 ea.)

Reading F7's

$989.92 for 2

Lehigh Valley LEGACY F7 AA Set #562, #566

$ 1,079.99

Atlas O 3007033B - Horizon Passenger Car "Amtrak" #54041

$ 134.96 ea

Lionel L-2227270 - F40PH Amtrak Phase III 21" Passenger 2-Pack

$368.99 ($184.50 ea)

Atlas O 30138045 - Premier - P-42 Genesis Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase V #173

$ 557.96 (scale)

Lionel L-2234010 - Genesis Amtrak #100



$ 494.99 (traditional)

2021 2I $404.99

LIONEL 2227050 - 2000S WOOD COACH "STRASBURG" #1 (2-CAR) SET 1

$ 359.99



LIONEL L-2227440 - NEW YORK CENTRAL COMBINE/COACH 2-PACK

$ 368.99





Atlas has some nice scale rolling stock to fill in the gaps in my pursuit of Canadian and New England road names that Lionel isn’t covering. As for comparing Lionel locomotives and Atlas locomotives, it’s apples to oranges. I think the technology of the Lionel locomotives justifies the higher cost over a comparable Atlas locomotive.

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

Just switch to S gauge.  Traditional American Flyer is all they'll produce.   Seems - logically - from a size standpoint - it'd make sense to do the reverse.

Anyone know if that new Norfolk and Southern (2231520) Visionline A will have a swinging bell?

The unpainted Pilot version? The Norfolk & Western A’s didn’t have swinging bells, they were operated by an air pressure system I think. None of the Vision Line A’s will have a swinging bell feature on them…