Cautionary tale

I'd like to know why that wall-wart was a problem.  Can you post a picture of it?

Trestleman1 posted:

About a year and a half ago as I added more loco's I realized I had wired my layout incorrectly, so I rewired it per Barry's instructions.  While I was doing this I bought a wall wart to power my tiu instead of using my Z500. That way I could use the Z500 to run some accessories. After I got done things were never the same. I could get trains to run sometimes but every time I would want to show it off to family or friends they wouldn't run.   I fried a channel in my tiu. It was hard to add loco's even though I had cleaned my tracks till them were gleaming. There were several other issues. Everyone said it was my wiring, but I couldn't find anything wrong with it. A couple of months ago I added 2 more loco's and things got crazier. I would have "maintenance required" pop up. "Out of RF range" was another, It was one thing after another. I had a friend come over and he couldn't find anything. I was actually going to take down the layout. As a last resort I invited a another friend over and we went through everything again. He said let's try the Z500 to power the tiu instead of the wall wart. BINGO!!! That's what was causing all my problems. Is there a way the average joe can verify if a wall wart is working correctly? Anyway everything is running fine now. I actually don't dread going downstairs to run trains now.

Reading Barry's book the wall wart will power the tiu.  It is not intended to power the track.  That is done through the transformer.

The wall ward powers the CPU of the tiu, and that is about it.  You do have to pull the power on the wall wart if you reset the tiu.  Also, in addition, if you are using MTH WIFI, you have to disconnect that also for reset.  If you don't, the red led will stay lit on the tiu.

That's my take.  It is not gospel, but I do remember attending Barry's meetings.  They were enjoyable and informative.

Needless to say, look at the specs on your wall wart and see if they are inline with the specs on the tiu.

Without knowing the wall wart specs not sure anyone can help.

BobbyD posted:

Without knowing the wall wart specs not sure anyone can help.

I forgot to ask.  Are you running the DCS in passive mode?

If not, what is the purpose of the wall wart to you?  You maybe wanting capabilities it is not intended for.

Mike H & BobbyD,  I bought it using the part number people on the forum suggested. Model:WY-12B2A Input:100-240V AC / Output: 12V @2A

Bryant,  I bought a wall wart to power my tiu instead of using my Z50

Trestleman1 posted:

Mike H & BobbyD,  I bought it using the part number people on the forum suggested. Model:WY-12B2A Input:100-240V AC / Output: 12V @2A

Bryant,  I bought a wall wart to power my tiu instead of using my Z50

"https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...stant-18-volt-output" is a link I found talking about triacs on a z-500 and it was powered by a wall wart.  This may be related to what is happening for you.

Going further.  If you disconnect the wall wart, does the system operate properly?  The channel 1 input to the tiu will power the dcs.  It just wont hold power when the transformer is turned off.  I suggest disconnecting the wall wart to start eliminating possibilities.  If the trains run, you are on your way to the solution.  In the absence of more direction, I would start here.

Bryant, the purpose of the wall wart is it's an external power source for the tiu because I use all 4 channels to power my 4 track blocks. All the power from my Z4000 is used on track power.

Bryant, Once I removed the wall wart and started using the Z500 to power the tiu everything was fine. No problems whatsoever. 

It sounds like the specs on your wall wart might be off.  I found this post by gunrunner john in a different post.  It spells out pretty clear what would be used to the aux power to your tiu.  Again, look at what you are using now.  Either it is wrong, or something might be amiss inside the TIU.  Especially if you used the wrong one and possibly causing damage.

"Any power brick that supplies at least 2 amps and has an output voltage range from 12V to 20V will do.  It can be either AC or DC, but most of the bricks I have happen to be DC.  As for "where" on the label, it obviously varies by individual units.

Here's one I'm using, it happened to have the right plug to mate with the TIU.  Note that it's 12V DC and plenty of power at 5.83 amps."

Trestleman1 posted:

Bryant, the purpose of the wall wart is it's an external power source for the tiu because I use all 4 channels to power my 4 track blocks. All the power from my Z4000 is used on track power.

The power consumed by the transformer to operate the tiu is minimal.  I don't think it is necessary to save output.  Locate a wall wart with the proper specs.  If your system goes weird, then you know it is inside the tiu.  At that point, I am at the end of my diagnostic capabilities.  Hope I could help.

FYI, there is no big savings of power if you do not power the TIU externally.  Not the end of the world.  

If you use all 4 channels, have you considered upgrading the transformer?  I run 4 channels and draw 6 amps plus on all 4 channels using a ZW-L.  Don't know the operating limits of a Z500.

I'm using an old 12v DC, 2 amp laptop power supply to power my TIU. I have no issues. 

Since you're now powering the TIU with the Z500 what is powering what the Z500 was powering? It's possible that if your Z500 and Z4000 were powering things that shared a common ground that the 2 transformers were not in phase, causing your issues. If everything is now powered from a single Z4000 you may have eliminated the out of phase issue.

Lou1985 posted:

I'm using an old 12v DC, 2 amp laptop power supply to power my TIU. I have no issues. 

Since you're now powering the TIU with the Z500 what is powering what the Z500 was powering? It's possible that if your Z500 and Z4000 were powering things that shared a common ground that the 2 transformers were not in phase, causing your issues. If everything is now powered from a single Z4000 you may have eliminated the out of phase issue.

I think he only has a Z500.  No mention of a Z4000.  I don't think phasing is an issue here.

Since all is working fine now, I wouldn't change a thing.  As a side note, I had issues when using a 12v wallwart and changed it out to a 15v one with same amperage and all problems went away. Just wondering if the 12v is on the minimum edge required and through tolerance stackup you were below the min for consistent operation.

It's also possible that the polarity of the barrel jack connector on the wall wart used was not the same as required by MTH. AFIK, there is no universal standard and the center pin can be either positive or negative.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I'm using an old 12v DC, 2 amp laptop power supply to power my TIU. I have no issues. 

Since you're now powering the TIU with the Z500 what is powering what the Z500 was powering? It's possible that if your Z500 and Z4000 were powering things that shared a common ground that the 2 transformers were not in phase, causing your issues. If everything is now powered from a single Z4000 you may have eliminated the out of phase issue.

I think he only has a Z500.  No mention of a Z4000.  I don't think phasing is an issue here.

OP posted above about using a Z4000. It's possible somehow, although unlikely, that the Z4000 and Z500 powering accessories could have been out of phase. Or the issue was caused by the AUX power supply.

To all, thank you for your input. I'm going with Kenjr's advice and I'm not touching a thing. Everything is working fine now. This post was just supposed to be a troubleshooting warning in case someone was having problems on their layout not to forget about the wall warts you're using for power sources. Thanks, Don 

Lou1985, I was using the Z500 to power accessories. I had an extra Z750 so I just added it to power the accessories instead.The wall wart I was using as an external power supply for my tiu was defective. 

Thank you for your comments.  Good advise given.  Along with some other users, I see a benefit for Aux power.  But that is a different searchable topic.  Nice picture, show off👌!

Bryant, well at least I can run trains over it consistently after 1-1/2 years.

I have used 12-volt wall warts with no problem. On may layout I now have a pair of 18-volt Radio Shack units,BUT, you have not stated the output amp rating of your wallwart, and you have not stated how many AIUs you're using.  AIUs add to the wall wart load since they all are powered by the wallwart, and relays draw power.  Round figures, I'd suggest 2 amp minimum capacity.

Trestleman1 posted:

Bryant, well at least I can run trains over it consistently after 1-1/2 years.

It is beautiful.  I’ve seen 2 similar and am in awe.  Tony Lash I believe and 1 of the 3 Hi Rails on Amazon Prime.  Again, I am blown away.  Wish I had  the room and time....and talent.

Rjr,  I did state output amp rating earlier in the thread. It was a 2A.

Also there is no aiu.

This was just a defective wall wart.