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After posting pictures of an RPO I recently modified, it raised the following questions:

CBQ_Bill

You Were Mentioned

You were mentioned in the following post:

Weekend Photo Fun Thanksgiving 2022 Edition

Reply by CBQ_Bill



@Rob Leese

I love your streamlined RPO model of Burlington Route FW&D Silver Messenger.

Please tell us more about this beauty !!!

Manufacturer ?

2-Rail or 3-Rail ?

Pre-built, kitbash, or scratch built ?

15”, 18”, or 21” ?

Aluminum or Plastic ?

Silver painted or chrome plated ?

Thanks in advance !!!

CB&Q Bill

So far, I have modified six different cars and posted the results on about five different threads.  To alleviate CBQ_Bill from hours worth of searching (as if he wanted to 😜) I will recap my work here.

Peak1Peak2Peak3

Silver Peak is an Atlas CZ baggage car redone for the 1940 Texas Zephyr.  The CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR letterboard had to be removed and replaced with thin styrene.  The decals come from K4 which are of excellent quality and include a list of names and owners (FW&D or C&S) for the various types of cars in the consists.  It should be noted here how this car should be lettered BURLINGTON instead of TEXAS ZEPHYR.  The only TZ cars lettered as such were the two ex-Denver Zephyr semi-articulated trainsets which came to replace the original TZ cars in 1957.  Since ultra-precise accuracy is not important to me, I took some liberties in the making of these cars.

Chariot1Chariot4

Silver Chariot was formerly an Empire State Express coach by GGD.  All letterboards had to be removed and replaced, along with the placement of small boards indicating road ownership.  At this point I will mention how this type of GGD car is very similar to an aluminum K-Line ESE coach.  The major differences being:  1. GGD cars have individual plastic windows while the K-Line will have a continuous clear plastic strip.  2. The GGD car has flicker-free lighting while the K-Line has incandescent lights (which I replaced with Henning's Trains superb light kits).  3.  With the removal of four screws, a K-Line floor will slide right out of the car body.  A GGD car will not do so unless the trucks are dismounted...the brake cylinders on the trucks were too large to get past the skirting. Ugh.  I say all this before mentioning that I reworked two K-Line coaches to go with the GGD coach.

Mine1Mine2

Silver Mine and Silver Bow (not shown) got window treatments in addition to the usual rework.  The venetian blinds decals are from Circus City Decals.  All three cars came with paltry excuses for diaphragms and have been replaced with nice looking Lionel parts.

RPO2RPO10

The RPO is a GGD ESE car with all-new letterboards and decals (and yes, diaphragms).   Question: how can GGD do such fine work and then "crash and burn" on this one small detail?  But I digress.      If I had chosen to blank out two of the four windows in the RPO section, this car would have turned out almost 100% accurate.   I might note here how this car is heavily weathered with grime.  Everything I rework gets weathered, but the headend cars get the most.  This RPO and the next car have truly pleased me...then again, I'm not much of a rivet counter.

Tray1Tray2Tray3Tray4

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Silver Tray was the obs used on the 1940 TZ until it was replaced in 1957.  Then it got its old job back when it was decided to permanently retire the old DZ equipment and utilize un-articulated cars.  The tail sign replicates the original 1940 design.  I had to make this sign on MS Publisher and print it on plain paper.  Q people will remember how the ex-DZ equipment had red neon tail signs.  And actually, the sister car to this obs, Silver Bowl (C&S), did get a neon tail sign, but Silver Tray never did.

This is a Lionel 21" ESE car which came with flicker-free lighting and adequate name boards.  The changes made to this car was the addition of small ownership boards, the blanking out of several windows on the right side where the galley area is located, and the addition of Budd style roof vents over the galley.  Part of the rooftop antenna had to be removed in the area above the galley.  Inside, people and window shades were added.  I have another Lionel obs to remake into Silver Streak from the ex-DZ trainset, and it will feature the neon tail sign.  I would love to do a makeover on a GGD ESE obs, but I haven't found one yet.

Sorry for the length of this post.

For any Burlington fans reading this post, please take time to read this: A case for an alternate CB&Q paint scheme | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

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Last edited by Rob Leese
Original Post

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@Rob Leese

WOW !!!

Thanks for sharing your customized TZ cars !!!

Are the GGD ESE cars made of ABS plastic or extruded aluminum ?

What paint brand & color did you use for the train name boards & RR ownership boards ?

Did you scratch build  your roof vents or are these commercially available ?

What are the part numbers for the Lionel diaphragms ?

I am also not a river counter.  Your models catch the spirit & feel of the TZ (even if some details are off, which I wouldn’t have noticed without you pointing them out).

My Zephyr fleet is mostly 15” (60’ Scale) plated aluminum cars from Lionel, K-Line, MTH, Williams, & Weaver.  I plan to add details so that they all have RR owner boards, tinted windows, diaphragms, silver trucks, & (for Vista Dome cars) Dome interiors.

I also have MTH CZ plated aluminum 18” (70’ Scale ) cars.  

I want to change the Silver names on some of the cars for variety to other prototypical Burlington Zephyr & CZ Car Names.

I have acquired the K4 BR Zephyr & CZ decals for these future projects.

I am currently finishing my basement for my modular layout.  

Thanks again !!!

In ZEPHYRUS we trust !!!

CB&Q Bill

Last edited by CBQ_Bill

Questions answered:

8C020B23-4F92-4DF5-8F2E-5FBCB9F7F6B1
this is the paint I use for letterboards, or to overspray an entire car if it is too glossy.
Some aluminum cars have an unrealistic high gloss finish…especially the plastic ends on a K-Line car.
16E96663-5A37-4AE6-A287-75207679C945
These roof vents are a good solution for Budd cars. They will need a bit of sanding to get rid of mold joints, and I clipped the mounting stud shorter as to not interfere with interior lighting strips.
Re: better diaphragms. The Lionelsupport.com web pages feature a variety of diaphragms. Another extensive project I am working on is a Frisco METEOR passenger train, and the TEXAS SPECIAL aluminum cars being redone for the project have full width diaphragms. Full width was not what I wanted so I bought TS complete car ends from Lionel support as replacements and diassembled the full width ends and saved the parts…then repainted them silver. This involved a bit of dremel work to make the striker plates correct.
Hope this helps.

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@CBQ_Bill posted:

Hi Rob:

What adhesives & glues did you use to attach your train-name boards & RR-name boards to your aluminum (& plastic) body models ?

Thanks in advance !!!

CB&Q Bill

I have used three or four different brands of "super glue".  The brand I prefer to use is Gorilla glue...it is much more viscous than other brands, so it does not have the tendency to flow everywhere you do not want it.  It also bonds quite fast which means you better "get it right" quickly.

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Here is one of my future projects.  K4 Decals provides the small lettering applied to the front indicating ownership (FW&D or C&S) and pool service: TEXAS ZEPHYR.

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@Rob Leese posted:

I have used three or four different brands of "super glue".  The brand I prefer to use is Gorilla glue...it is much more viscous than other brands, so it does not have the tendency to flow everywhere you do not want it.  It also bonds quite fast which means you better "get it right" quickly.

IMG_7925

Here is one of my future projects.  K4 Decals provides the small lettering applied to the front indicating ownership (FW&D or C&S) and pool service: TEXAS ZEPHYR.

Rob, was this E5 from the first run?

SILVER STREAK on the workbench.  This is a K-Line ESE obs which is fairly easy to work on. My guy for l e d light kits has disappeared (Dan’s L E Depot), so I’m not sure where to locate flicker free red markers or tailsign lighting.
06853314-CE07-49D7-B7EC-062A59554259
The real SILVER STREAK survives, mostly intact, in Austin, TX.

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Last edited by Rob Leese

27419213-E58F-4F2A-B3E5-517DB29AF670F0FFE5DB-3BCE-4D56-87F0-B85ED3F5FDF0712F91A9-1EA1-4DCA-9498-8BC11976BE700D46FDA5-6B15-448B-98A9-EC986D2D1DB224803905-65E1-44A8-BDDD-81D76F2C5131C6A9BA2D-42EE-408E-B269-9A72997713CEB2A8F65C-C1DA-4341-85A3-B160BDA41D1F22542B97-CAFC-48FA-A9A4-6110D588D885The latest project  

Silver Streak was originally built for the articulated DENVER ZEPHYR in 1936. When the CB&Q upgraded the DZ to a domeliner in 1956, the old trainsets were sold to C&S and FW&D to run as the β€œfiner, faster TEXAS ZEPHYR”  

Q: how can an older trainset make the 1940 ZEPHYR finer?

A: the articulated set brought full diner service and a wider variety of sleeping accommodations to the train.  Yet, it also brought less flexibility in consists.  Some of the car sets were 3 car articulations.  One bad order car took out all adjoining cars with it.

Silver Streak resides in Austin, TX.  I think it is a juice bar or something similar.

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Last edited by Rob Leese
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:

I can tell. Paint was better applied in run #1.

I would like your opinion on an idea regarding the Sunset Models E5's.

The locomotive paint appears gray to me instead of reflective stainless steel.  I have been experimenting with some "chrome" labeled paints which do render a reflective finish.  Do you think these models would look better if they had a chrome finish?   The only thing holding me back on this project is a lack of replacement decals.  Microscale used to print them but have since discontinued them...they said a special run could be done if 250 sets were ordered. (I am not that desperate).

I remember reading a comment you made regarding these models saying "a lot of work needs to be done..."

ΒΏque piensas?   

The Texas Zephyr trainsets had an upgraded heavyweight diner to protect dining service when the regular dining cars were bad ordered.  #263 was an unnamed car painted silver to somewhat match the E G Budd cars which formed the majority of the TZ.



This Atlas offering came lettered as #171 and featured no roof detail:

mceclip3mceclip2

The BURLINGTON lettering is not crisp, yet I left it alone.  New lettering for ownership, car type, and car number were added in the correct font.  As with most everything I do, "it ain't exact", but I like it.

top photo: Steve Goen collection.

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Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Robert,

Funny you should show the repainted heavyweight.  I have a few GGD heavyweight coaches that will receive silver paint for my fictitious CBQ train that is made up of all heavyweight cars.  I have two sets of Microscale decals floating around but can't find them for the life of me!

I think the silver painted heavyweights are really interesting cars.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Robert,

Funny you should show the repainted heavyweight.  I have a few GGD heavyweight coaches that will receive silver paint for my fictitious CBQ train that is made up of all heavyweight cars.  I have two sets of Microscale decals floating around but can't find them for the life of me!

I think the silver painted heavyweights are really interesting cars.

You probably know this already how the FW&D had a small fleet of heavyweight coaches painted *silver* which ran on mail trains #7 and 8, and provided extra seating on the TZ during peak travel periods.  I am researching the exact color to get a close match. Having said β€œsilver” above, it may actually be a very light gray. It is not easy to find color reference photos of these cars, but Steve Goen’s two excellent books covering the FW&D have several b/w photos of hvywt cars.
I thought my #263 diner looked quite realistic after some grimy weathering was added.

E965B7C1-A14F-42CE-9A6B-E66C55C4A65B983427D5-639B-454C-B030-0EA5F6D0CBACED72A61F-25CF-4150-8FC1-39515E20355ACAC11681-716D-4652-83AE-1442DD4C4DB7Berwyns Trains did a special run of CB&Q heavyweight coaches made by Atlas from MTH tooling. These served as the beginning of FW&D/C&S coach project. The photo of a photo shows C & S coach 549 carrying the markers for mail trains #7 and 8.  56519330-A286-461C-B4B1-88B5A785896D
I replaced the factory lighting with flicker-free GGD light strips. The markers are Tomar powered by flicker-free modules from Hennings Trains.  There isn’t enough space on the vestibule to drill a hole for mounting Tomar markers, so I just glued them to the end of the car and ran the power cabling the same way as the prototype.  It is my usual crude work, but I like the way the car turned out.

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I just finished these cars before my five busiest months on the ranch begins, and I won't have time to do anything in the "car shop".

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FW&D 33 and 104 were two of the eighteen baggage/express cars on their roster.  The Texas Zephyr 1 and 2, and trains 7 and 8 were very "head end heavy".  33 is a K-Line car while 104 is a Lionel.

FD COACH3FWD coach1FWD coach2

Heavyweight coach 204 was a regular on trains 7 and 8, and often on the Zephyr during peak travel periods.  It is an Atlas (MTH) car offered as a special run from Berwyn's Trains.  It will be a companion coach to this car bringing up the markers:

C&S 549

I still have a Lionel observation car to redo into Silver Hours which ran on the Sam Houston Zephyr between Fort Worth and Houston.  That will make my fourth obs to match my Zephyr collection.  I want to finish it and take photos of all four before I jettison Silver Bowl  (C&S) since it did not turn out too well.

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IMG_9018IMG_9024IMG_9023The caption below the β€œphoto of a photo” in Steve Allen Goen’s first book covering the Fort Worth & Denver Rwy. says the entire story.  I have modeled both 109 and 110. These Atlas Steam Era Classic cars are remarkable.  The prototypes 109 and 110 had friction bearing trucks, and I chose to leave the Express-type trucks on the models. Complete accuracy is something for which I am not famous.

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Silver Streak's conversion (a K-Line ESE car) was considered complete until I realized I could add road-specific detail to make it even more accurate.  The search for a signature CB&Q tail marker ended when I realized these parts could be ordered from MTH Parts as part of their Premier Pioneer Zephyr models.  A little Dremel work, white putty, and LED's from Evans Designs resulted in this:

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Photos made in the dark reveal how it leaks a bit of light from the places where parts meet.  Stand way back in a well-lit room and it will look impressive. Hehe!

On the workbench I still have another Lionel obs to redo as Silver Hours which brought up the markers for the Sam Houston Zephyr.

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Last edited by Rob Leese

Silver Hours carried the markers for the SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR which ran between Dallas and Houston, TX.  This train ran on the "Joint Line" (Burlington-Rock Island), and I believe the trainsets were ultimately owned by the Colorado & Southern.  Rock Island's TWIN STAR ROCKET also plied these rails.  The SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR consist was typically an E5A (9909 Silver Bullet which later became C&S 9953) pulling one baggage car, three coaches and Silver Hours.  Its competition for that route was Southern Pacific's SUNBEAM and HUSTLER.  ***Would not we like to go back to those days!*** 

This car truly does not resemble the real Silver Hours in many respects, and the differences are too numerous to mention.  It was as close as I could manage with a Lionel ESE observation car...but as always, I am not famous for 100% accuracy.

The real Silver Hours once resided in Corpus Christi, TX and now resides at the railroad museum in Galveston, TX.  Neither place is suitable for preserving ANYTHING, and I am frequent to mention this anytime I see posts regarding this car on social media. 

This is a Lionel ESE obs with new lettering, Venetian blinds decals, interior figures, a new tail marker from MTH, and a Tomar drumhead. mceclip4mceclip2mceclip3 The wonderful Lionel flicker free lighting was only supplemented with taps for the Tomar drumhead.

Having done two Lionels, one GGD, and one K-Line observation car, if I had to do yet another, I believe I would lean towards the K-Line.  They all have varying strengths and weaknesses, but this is what a person has to deal with to model obscure railroads.

One might think I should be satisfied with the current fleet, but I have four Erie GGD heavyweight coaches to transform into FW&D or C&S, and a need for one or two more streamlined Pullmans for the TEXAS ZEPHYR.  It's a weakness, I admit.

@CBQ_Bill

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