Central Locomotive Works (CLW) + List of O-Scale Diesel Models Kits they manufactured?

I know CLW did the sd40-2, at least one tunnel motor, and the sd45-2.  I dont believe they did anything after the sd45-2, meaning the sd50 and onward.  I also dont know if they did the the sd38-2.  It would have made sense, given the number of parts that are shared with the sd40-2.

Jim

I have never heard of CLW putting kits together for other companies.   I also don't think they bought/acquired the Kemtron line.    P&D Hobbies ended up with the RS3 kit and parts from Kemtron.

I have heard of lots of drive kits and/or parts.    They were a primary source for building up a nice drive for a diesel for  years along  with All Nation.

the GPs I have seen are the GP35 and GP40.    I think they also did the SD-40.    Not sure about the GP38 but it makes sense.

I have never personally seen a GP7, GP9, SD7, or SD9 from CLW.    

Their Alco PA is pretty common, there are often a couple for sale at every 2 rail show.    I am pretty sure they also did an FA model, either 1 or 2.   

I have seen a cast bronze version of an FM H20-44, but not an H16-44.   

I have heard talk of EMD F units and E  units, but again I have never seen one.

To expand they did acquire the Saginaw molds and offered the PRR H10 for years as a kit.    They also did a Southern PS4 Pacific kit.     At the end they were working on a UP 4-8-4 and had the frame and mech done along with many detail parts.    The H10 is very common.    The last PS4 kits were shipped without drivers which were back-ordered.    I don't know how that worked out.

CLW was the most part a one man operation owned operated by a nice guy named Bob Smith when I knew it.

His brass detail castings always attracted a large crowd at O scale shows.    he would get one or two tables and just spread castings loose all over them.    The crowd would gather and browse and buy pretty much through the whole show.

 Another note to confuse matters:    There was another company in the 70s and 80s perhaps longer called "Locomotive Work Shop" (LWS) owned operated by another nice modeler named Jan Lorenzen.      LWS put out a very broad range of kits but they were even much more in the Craftmans kit range than CLW.     I agree with the other post that illustrated an FM H16-44 kit that the kit looks more like LWS than CLW.    

I forgot to add that CLW also made an EMD GP-30...

CLW is still in business.

Jay C posted:

CLW is still in business.

 

I think Lou shut down the business some time ago. Don't recall him selling it off.

Hi PRRJIM,

Yes, CLW did make an RS-3 Chassis Kit.

Here is a pic of a CLW F-7...

...

Here is the box for an H16-44 Chassis (unconfirmed)...

Regards, Steve

Nope, he's still there.  He's geared mostly to building the models and selling them RTR.  Selling kits isn't worth it anymore.  At least that's the impression he gave me.

Jay

I understand CLW's last diesel kit was to be of a Baldwin 2000 HP DT-6-6-2000 center cab  transfer unit like the ones owned by  the EJ&E.   A pilot model was built by Bernie Gallagher for Bob Smith but I believe Bob passed away before the kit went into full production.   Has anyone seen a CLW  transfer diesel - kit or built-up?    Bernie was the chief mechanical officer on the restored Dover Harbor Pullman owned by the DC Chapter of the NRHS as well as a talented DC area O scaler.  He had a close relationship with Bob Smith and built somewhere around 10  CLW Southern PS4 pacifics.

Questor posted:

I forgot to add that CLW also made an EMD GP-30...

The GP30 body was imported by NJ Custom Brass and had a CLW drive installed.

"Has anyone seen a CLW  transfer diesel kit or built-up.?"  Yes, CLW did a few.

Jay  

Keystoned Ed posted:

I understand CLW's last diesel kit was to be of a Baldwin 2000 HP DT-6-6-2000 center cab  transfer unit like the ones owned by  the EJ&E.   A pilot model was built by Bernie Gallagher for Bob Smith but I believe Bob passed away before the kit went into full production.   Has anyone seen a CLW  transfer diesel - kit or built-up?    .

I've seen 2-3.

Keystoned Ed posted:

I understand CLW's last diesel kit was to be of a Baldwin 2000 HP DT-6-6-2000 center cab  transfer unit like the ones owned by  the EJ&E.   A pilot model was built by Bernie Gallagher for Bob Smith but I believe Bob passed away before the kit went into full production.   Has anyone seen a CLW  transfer diesel - kit or built-up?   

I am not allowed to link here but The O Scale Resource january-february-2016 issue page 58 has a picture of one built by Bruce Morally and now owned by Frank McCabe  of the Rockford O Scalers.

Two vastly different PAs were produced.  The earlier sand-cast was far more accurate.  Apparently an all sand-cast center cab was produced, and a brass/bronze cast NW-2.

Hello all ... Bob Smith / Central Locomotive Works ....  involved with many many locomotive projects ... here are a few  

The EMD E7 

The cast PA's ... the later ones are all different ...( not as nice in my opinion) 

The Berkshire ...which was a Lenoir / Hines piece...which Hines failed to pay Adam and Son for ...so it went to Bob Smith ...

You like the GMC GM switcher ???  that was Bob's also ..a few of the cast brass versions are out there ..not many before the project went to GMC 

As Bob mentioned ...Bob Smith had the Saginaw tooling for a while ..but only produced the H10... why or why not the E6 ????

O scale was a small pond to swim in and all the fishes know each other ....

It would be great to see a definitive work on Bob Smith and his Central Locomotive Works .

Cheers Carey 

Attached are two pictures of the center cabs that Bruce Morrall built  and now owned by Frank McCabe as mentioned by Dan Dawdy.  Unfortunately Bruce passed away on October 22.  Frank also has a CLW Pennsy center cab that has a lot of extra detail added to it but I'm not sure where it is at the moment.

Those are neat! And I do not care for the big transfer Diesel.  The orange and green is striking!  I take it both are the etched versions with lost wax trucks?

Thanks for posting the EJ&E photos John.  The word "rare" is at times misapplied to O scale 2 rail models (especially on eBay) - it is apropos for a CLW Baldwin  transfer diesel. I believe the only other commercially made transfer diesel in O scale were the Lima-Hamilton ones done by MTH. 

I have built and three railed aF3, a GP 35 and a Kemtron Rs 3.

Is it an optical illusion, or do the hoods actually gain some height as they go from cab to end?

Hi All,

Here are some photos of our other CLW Center Cab which is a Pennsylvania unit.  We are not sure who the builder was but it is finished with a high degree of detail for a CLW kit.  And, of course the CLW mechanism is bulletproof and it runs well.  So, The Rockford O Scalers are very pleased to have three of these CLW Center Cab models on the layout.

Same optical illusion.  I put a straightedge on the photo, so either the locomotive is supposed to be swaybacked, or Smith made a mistake.  I have some prototype photos in a Stauffer book somewhere.

Frank McCabe posted:

Hi All,

Here are some photos of our other CLW Center Cab which is a Pennsylvania unit.  We are not sure who the builder was but it is finished with a high degree of detail for a CLW kit.  And, of course the CLW mechanism is bulletproof and it runs well.  So, The Rockford O Scalers are very pleased to have three of these CLW Center Cab models on the layout.

I would love to get a kit like that and throw an MTH 3 rail drive into it. It's definitely different than the MTH Lima unit.

Regarding the Center Cabs, the EJ&E mainline ran behind my grade school in Park Forest, IL and I was fascinated by these locomotives which I saw every day.    When I heard CLW was going to make a kit, I knew I had to have one.  As mentioned above, Bruce Morrall built the kit and I had it custom painted in the orange and green “football” scheme.  We also had an EJ&E caboose custom built by Malcolm Byrd to run with the Center Cab.  So, now I am reliving my youth!

BTW, EMD re-engined some of the EJ&E Center Cabs and as a result the new locomotive hoods sloped up toward the cab and overhung the walkways.  The CLW model is a stock Baldwin unit as delivered which has the original straight hood.  Here is a prototype photo of an EJ&E unit in its original configuration.

The Rockford O Scalers have a number of other CLW locomotives on the layout including EMD E8s, SD40, GP30 and Alco PAs.  Here are some pictures of the SD40 and GP30.

By us we have two Santa Fe Centercab at the clublayout. Also I have asket CLW for an Specialkit to build an BN SD40-2B. The BN SD40-2 is kitbash from an CLW Kit.

Nice looking locomotives!

I agree.  CLW did very nice kits.  It takes real skill to get them as nice looking as the above models.

Questor posted:

Which Brass O-Scale 2-Rail Diesel Locomotive Kits were manufactured by the former "Central Locomotive Works" (CLW) company?

Google has limited current search results and past Internet listings to favor companies that pay Google a monthly advertising fee.  This Google profit motive (no pun intended) results in a loss of information and history about O-Scale Brass model kits from companies that are no longer in business.With passing generations of modelers it seems hobby magazines may have reviewed some, but not all of these Kits from OEMs like CLW. 

An Internet search of he NMRA online index and The Kalmback Library Collection do not seem to have any article or discussion nor list about brass kit manufacturers' O-Scale product lines over the years...

As far as I am aware, CLW may have made the following Brass O-Scale 2-Rail Diesel Locomotive Kits over the years until CLW went out of business and product lines were sold off:

EMD GP-7

EMD F-7

EMD E-8

EMD GP-20

EMD GP-35

EMD GP-38

EMD SD-9 (?)

EMD SD-35/40/45

ALCO FA-1

ALCO PA-1

ALCO RS-3 Drive Kit only (?)

FM H16-44

GE U-25B

Baldwin AS-616 (?)

 

A current text and image search of the Internet through Google does not show a comprehensive CLW list of:

1.) which Brass Diesel Locomotive models Kits were made by CLW,

2.) when these Kits were manufactured,

3.) which parts with pics were included within each of these Brass Kits,

4.) what phases or variations of the Kits were produced? i.e. U-25B Kit's Cab inner framing construction

5.) did CLW relabel or co-produce Brass O-Scale 2-Rail Diesel Locomotive Kits with other companies?

I realize that CLW may have acquired some of the product lines and Kits from the former Kemtron company.

Which CLW Brass Diesel Kits am I missing or mislabeled as CLW? Any comments or suggestions regarding these questions would be appreciated!

Regards, Steve

Cincinnati, OH

Thanks to all people sending in pics/info about additional CLW Brass Kits such as EMD GP-30, EMD SD40-2, EMD SD40-T2 and Baldwin DT-6-6-2000... 

Can anyone post pics of a CLW H20-44/H16-44/H15-55 with matching CLW Box or a CLW H12-44/H10-44 with the matching CLW Box?

Are there any other Brass Diesel Locomotive Kits that were cast by CLW which have not yet been mentioned?

Apparently there was a GP-40 kit also.  Here is a picture of some of Bruce Morrall’s kits, including the GP-40.

Here are a few more Center Cab photos. Regarding the earlier question of the hood contour, they look flat to me.

You can add F3a and F3b along with the F7a and b.

Hi Bob,

Did CLW manufacture complete F-3A/B Brass Kits and/or did CLW make a Motorized Chassis Kit that adapted for use with other OEM F-3A/B Kits such as Adams & Son, Kemtron, US Hobbies, All-Nation, LWS, or KTM?

I have noticed that CLW sometimes made specific Motorized Chassis Kits for some of these companies' brass models.  For example, Kemtron Alco RS-3, Adams & Son cast F-3A/B, Adams & Son H16-44, etc...  Early model CLW Motorized Chassis Kits seem to have cast brass casings and later model CLW Motorized Chassis Kits use Weaver Drive components.

Does anyone have pics of original CLW boxes for F-3A/B assembled brass kits?

Regards, Steve

Hi Frank,

I own a later production CLW Kit that could be adapted to a GP38/GP38-2/GP40/GP40-2 with the included parts and depending on the CLW Blomberg type of Trucks obtained.

I wonder if they made an earlier GP-40 Kit as shown in your posted pic and a later "generic" EMD GP kit that could be adapted to different GP-38/40 model types...

Regards, Steve

Did CLW make a Brass Kit for an Baldwin Diesel Locomotive other than a DT-6-6-2000?

I seem to remember seeing a CLW Baldwin DS-4-4-10 or AS-616 Roadswitcher at one time...

Regards, Steve

Hello all ..below you'll find a Central Locomotive Works  listing  of available kits on their letter head from 1950 , PA and Baldwin listings from Carmen Webster's 1950 catalog ...and chassis and PA's available in 1962  found in the 1962 Box Car Ken catalog. 

Anybody know about the NYC H10B  listed in the 1950 price list by CLW?   who's was it ?  The Limb Berk is the one I posted before. Note the Saginaw items are not available at this time ... I have a later letter that states just the H10 will be available . 

Cheers Carey  

Neat!  I think the NYC Mike got only to the parts stage.  You could buy a few lost wax parts for it until Smith gave up.

What is surprising is you could buy the all cast PA at the same time the etched version became available.

Frank, I agree.  A straightedge on those fine photos shows dead straight.  Must have been lens distortion.

I am pretty sure that the GP30 was marketed as an NJ Custom Brass and had a CLW drive. I have the PRR version that I modified to D&RGW.

Hello all here is a CLW ad for the 1500 HP FM   January  1949 MR 

How many of these are out there ? any photos ? Thank you Cheers Carey

Well, yeah.  I post mine all the time.  It has the Baldwin center cab trucks, no cute fuel tank cover, and a CNW paint job.  I'll post it again next time the big computer gets warmed up.

Here are some pictures of our CLW Alco PA.  And for comparison, next to a Samhongsa built Key model.  Bare in mind the CLW model was designed approximately 60 years before the Korean built brass model.  In that context, it doesn’t look so bad! (And of course it runs great).

And here are some photos of our CLW EMD E-8 with comparison to the recently released Sunset 3rd Rail E unit.  Once again, considering the age of the model, the Rockford O Scalers don’t think it looks too bad.

Beautiful paint.  While I agree some quarter must be given for the age of the CLW design, it should again be noted that Smith's very first PA castings were far more accurate dimensionally than were the better-detailed etched versions.

The later PA sprung trucks were the best!

O Scale history lives on!

This is  a fantastic CLW  overview, great photos! 

I remember seeing some of them run at Stamford O Scale Club, with Big Pittman motors and metal gears roaring! 

You may find the following post interesting about CLW... I found and digitized my 3/1/2000 CLW current product list with future products announcements.

It seems that CLW had revised its product lines to include new transmission and drives systems (were these newer Weaver drives?).

New & updated Kits for CLW in early 2000 for EMD include: GP30 and GP35, GP38, GP40-2 ­GP50, GP35, F3, F7,  F9's, E7, E8, and E9's, SD35, SD40 and SD45, SD40-2 and SD45-2, SD40-T, and SD45-T2.

Revised Alco models were PA-1, FA-1/2, Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton 2400 HP Transfer Locomotive ("Center Cab").

New CLW EMD Kits were to include the GP30, SD50, SD60 and SD70 series diesels.  Has anyone seen or owns or has pics of these any of these CLW "New" EMD Kits?

Anyway, here is are the CLW documents...

Regards, Steve

CLW

17525 Alder Street Ste. 46         

Hesperia, California 92345         

PHONE: 760 244-9222

FAX 760 244-9322

www.centrallocomotiveworks.corn          clw2000@earthlink.net

General Information

Central Locomotive Works was originally established in 1947, by Mr. Robert A. Smith. Over the years 'Bob' produced some 40 different models of steam and diesel locomotives in kit form. Bob decided to retire and in August of 1998 the company was sold and relocated to Hesperia, California.

The new 'CENTRAL' plans to produce many of the former kits as well as new models. The models will also be offered custom built, or custom built and painted. Our objective is to produce models which accurately replicate locomotive layout and dimensions, and provide for a moderate level of detail. The former chassis and drive train, except for the gearboxes, has been updated with some new component parts resulting in substantially better performance and added weight for much improved tractive effort. Etched body parts have also been improved for detail and ease of assembly. The new models will be the best brass locomotives on the market when it comes to overall quality and price.

Parts

We have over 1,000 lost wax brass, bronze, and nickel-silver castings in our inventory. Also, new parts are being added almost daily. An updated parts and price list for diesel and steam is available for $3.50, postage paid, or the list can  be downloaded from our website. Prices listed are good through July 1, 2000.

Chassis/Drive Systems

Several diesel chassis/drive kits ('section I') are available now. These include GP30 and GP35, GP38 ­GP50, F's, SD35, SD40 and SD45, SD40-2 and SD45-2, SD40-T and SD45-T2. We continue to test the new redesigned chassis/drive systems for performance, durability, and overall quality. We have redesigned the chassis frame to reflect a more prototypical appearance and provide some additional weight. The frame, fuel tank, and air tanks are all machined from solid brass stock. Several of the models can be built in various configurations in order to correctly model a particular diesel. Fuel tanks will be offered in several different sizes as well. The new system is a high entry type, using CLW's chain tower to drive our rugged and reliable CLW gear boxes. The motor has been redesigned to incorporate ball bearings, dynamically balanced shaft, and dual flywheels. Overall drive ratios of 10:1, 13.33:1, 15:1 (standard), 16.67:1, and 20:1 are available to meet individual operating needs. With the 15:1 drive ratio, the test chassis for the GP38's through GP50's, pulled 45 Weaver 50' box cars, weighted to NMRA specifications, through two 72' radius curves at about 1.8 amps. We think you will be well pleased with the redesigned diesel kits. The new chassis can be easily modified to retrofit models form other manufacturers such as Weaver, MTH, as well as older existing CLW models. A chassis/drive kit will be available very soon for the Red Caboose GP9 models. Kit prices for the new chassis/drive systems will be $345.00 to $445.00 depending on model and options required. We can also provide them built-up for an additional cost of about $120.00. We also offer conversion work to retrofit new chassis/drive systems to existing CLW models as well as other manufactures products. Call for quotes regarding your re-power needs.

There are many more new and exciting changes going on at 'Central', so stay tuned and watch for our upcoming ads or drop us a line for specific information. Also, if you have access to the Internet, check out our website at www.centrallocomotiveworks.com.

The best to you and Happy Railroading!

CLW

Central Locomotive Works, Inc.

17525 Alder Street Ste. 46         

Hesperia, California 92345         

PHONE: 760 244-9222

FAX 760 244-9322

www.centrallocomotiveworks.com          c1w2000@earthlink.net

Kits and Built-Up Models

General

We manufacture several diesel locomotive model kits. These kits are fabricated from machined brass, three level etched brass sheet, and lost wax process brass castings. The diesel kits, when completed by the modeler, provide an accurate, scaled and moderately detailed model of the prototype. Kits will cost an average of 35 to 50% less than the comparable import models. Although the kits include many detail castings, several manufacturers have parts available for providing higher levels of detail as the modeler would desire. The same is true with respect to lighting, sound, and state-of-the-art control. Some of the major features of CLW locomotives are fidelity to scale and general layout, accurate detail, high tractive effort, durability, great performance, low maintenance, and if desired, they can be run outdoors.

Hood Units

Complete diesel kits ( sections I and 2) are now being processed. Artwork for etchings has been enhanced and films are being developed. The first kits offered will be the GP40-2 ( now available ), GP38-2 ( April ), SD40-2 (May), SD45-2 (June), and both 'Tunnel Motors' in July. Other planned releases include the GP30, GP35, F3, F7 and F9's, E7, E8, and E9's. Order forms are available for these models and reservations are now being taken. Other releases planned later for this year include GP30, GP50 and SD50. The new diesel kit prices will range from $535.00 to $775.00, depending on model and options requested. In addition, we will offer all diesels built-up and primer painted, and built-up and custom painted. Price ranges for built-up and custom painted models will range from $975.00 to $1,350.00. Order forms are now available for these models and deposits of $150.00 for kits and $300.00 for built-up models will be required to reserve your choice.

PA's and FA's

We will be bringing the PA kit back. We have obtained actual erection drawings and are reviewing best methods for redesigning the kit. Our current plan is to offer the PA's during the last quarter of this year. Meanwhile, thanks to the many of you who are using CLVV's various castings, trucks and drive kits to upgrade other manufactures models. The Alco 6 wheel passenger truck is now in stock as is the AAR type B truck.

Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton 2400 HP Transfer Locomotive ("Center Cab")

We are planning another run of this kit. Art work is being revised to provide 3-level etching detail and a new chassis/drive system is being designed. It is a fine model, and very popular with modelers who model north-eastern railroads, particularly the PRR. Santa Fe also had similar units. The Baldwin 3 axle truck used for this model and other applications such as the AS-616, is now available.

E's and F's

F unit chassis/drives kits are ready now and complete kits should be ready by early spring; F3, F7, F9 E7, E8, and E9 all with companion "B" units and all with the new chassis/drive system. Also, a chassis/drive kit is now available for the ALL Nation F3 for $335.00 plus $10.00 S&H. The E's will have 36' driving wheels with 13.33:1 or 15:1 overall gearing in order for them to run compatibly with the Geeps and SD's with 15:1 or 16.67:1 respective gearing and 40" drivers, without use of decoders or voltage regulators.

New Models?

Several new diesels, both EMD and GE units, are in the works. Along with the GP30, we will be introducing the SD50, SD60 and SD70 series diesels.

CLW

Central Locomotive Works, Inc.

CLW Trucks

We produce several diesel truck types: EMD Blomberg (3 styles and type M), EMD 6 wheel Flexicoil (all brake configurations), EMD HTC, EMD 6 wheel passenger truck, AAR type A, AAR-type B, Alco `Trimount', Alco 6 wheel passenger truck (PA), and the Baldwin C truck as used on the Baldwin-Lima­Hamilton Transfer locomotives (Center Cab) and AS-616's. As you may already know, all CLW's diesel trucks are fully sprung and in most cases, mimic the prototype. We review each truck for possible improvements in performance and detail accuracy. The PA truck, for instance, has received a new bolster and transoms. New truck journals with rotating bearing caps will be available for the HTC, Flexicoil, Blomberg type M and AAR type B trucks for modeling contemporary prototype practices.

CLW Drives

As for those rugged CLW drives, we will continue to offer the current configurations of gear boxes. We think they're pretty tough to beat! The assembled combination of individual component materials gives the CLW gear box 'lubrication free' qualities. The drives should have a performance life of about 2500 hours The gear boxes themselves have a ratio of 1 0: 1. The drive systems for new chassis will be of the high entry type, using a chain tower to transfer power from motor to gear box. We have looked at and tried several methods of transfer, such as gear tower, belt drive, etc. We found the chain tower to be the best overall method. It also provides a choice of various gearing options to the modeler at no extra cost. The new CLW kit will be offered with 15:1 overall drive ratio or 83 scale mph's as standard. Other ratio options are 10:1, 13.33:1, 16.67:1 and 20:1. Another benefit of the chain tower is that E's with 36' drivers and GP's, SD's, and others with 40' drivers can run at the same speeds without the aid of voltage regulators or decoders. New universals and shafts for the motor-to-tower connection, made for CLW by NorthWest Short Line, are now standard. These universals operate at high shaft rpm and have minimal vibration.

CLW Motors

The two CLW motors previously used for the diesels are no longer manufactured by Pitman and as a result we've had a new motor built by Pittman. The new motor ( #8224 ) is custom made for CLW, and incorporates some improvements. The shaft is dynamically balanced and supported by ball bearings, and dual flywheels are also added.

New Wheelsets

We will be offering .145" width, .115" 'Proto-O', and .115" 'Proto-48' blackened steel wheelsets made for us by NorthWest Short Line, as an option to the standard .172' CLW wheelset. We'll also offer nickel-silver wheelsets on special order basis.

Axle Roller Bearings

We also offer roller bearing inserts for those of you that require long steady hours of run time. These are normally placed in models used in museums and other public display situations. The bearings which are only 3/16' in diameter, have a load rating of 30 lb. each!

Check our parts and price list for current prices.

I believe CLW offered or manufactured three different versions of the BLW  centercabs, the first an early cast version related to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry layout (recall seeing one there in 1964) the second version much later with the more conventional wrapper and castings approach, the third (and one of the last projects in the CLW pantheon as noted) like the second with a more sophisticated etched car body.

The original post question though is obviously a good one. Wouldn't it be nice to have a comprehensive illustrated history of Bob Smith's work and a nod to the successor business which deserves some recognition  for picking it up?  Conversely who's doing All-Nation now?  (queue crickets)  

Kudo's to Questor for starting a great string.

Pete

Amazing what Smith accomplished.

Some day the story of the new CLW will be told.  Lou and his spouse (Betty, I think) are wonderful folks, but may have discovered that sincere effort is not enough to make a profit in the model train business.  The new CNC-machined chassis was a work of art, but the brass alone drove the price to the sky.

I think, but am not sure, that the gears were slowly moving toward what Jay C is now offering.  Surprised to see that Lou was staying with chain - every one of my sprockets is now split, and it is time to go tooth belt.

Re-reading this thread, I suspect that Cary's E7 is an Adams model - I am not aware that CLW did a sand cast E7, although I have been quite wrong about Bob's production of such things as the brass NW-2.

I also note that I have not yet re-posted my CLW H16-44, which I have converted to an H16-66, using Bob's fine lost wax Baldwin transfer trucks.  So herewith - hopefully all the wheels are on the display track:

Thanks for adding this here Bob, really like the  way you did this one,  a few questions

1. Powered with a clw drive right?

2. Really nice finish on this, opinion one of your more complete diesels scheme wise; any details on the paint/decals etc.?

3. What did you do with those tri-mount trucks that you replaced with the cast frame Commonwealth's?

Really interesting prototype too, I recently got Boyd's book on FM's and have developed a latent appreciation for these road switchers in particular.  Did you have a Milwaukee Road version of this model or am I thinking of someone else?

I tried to respond this morning, but somehow got in a loop.  The system never took my typing, and I couldn't recover and re-post.

Not powered.  I have almost 200 locomotives, and am not really an operator - if you leave them sit, they die, just like cars, airplanes, and boats.  All my Diesels get an 8x24 motor over a truck, with a Delrin chain drop-down.  Unfortunately, all of them are getting split sprockets, so I shall go to tooth belts, and will be prevailing on our local expert for the setup (Jay).

Those few mechanisms that still work will pull the plaster off the wall.  Each truck gets three CLW plastic gearboxes, properly lubricated and set with one solid shaft to absorb the wrap-up from the chain.  Each truck has all wheel pickup, sometimes by wipers on the tread, and each can run without the locomotive attached.

Paint on the 16-66 was old style Scale Craft, shot through a Paasche model H.  Decals by Jim Wilhite (RIP).  It was sparked by some work I did for Jim Seacrest involving shortening MTH Train Masters, and by a factory painted MTH SD-(9?).  I decided I liked the paint scheme A LOT!

Wow, that's a lot more than I asked for but yes-just GREAT! 

That 50's C&NW scheme is indeed the bomb. You could do a decent 50's era C&NW suburban pike with that roster. I like those baby H16-66's and the SD too, the MTH shells are very nice. Would be an interesting proposition to reverse engineer a casting out of them as you've done with your PA or Erie-built projects.

In the interest of the string topic do you have any more CLW "strays" in your larder?

Bob,

One of these days, before one, or both, of us are gone, we need to try it.

Jay

Agreed.  It will be easy once the first one is done.

Here are some photos of Bob Smith's CLW etched-side ALCo passenger units with added details, including revised  windshields on the A-units, with the proper shape made by overlaying thin brass on the original bronze casting for the cab.  I've read that Bob wouldn't admit that the windshield shape was incorrect, but I never tried to discuss this with him. I visited Bob one time in the 1970s in Florida, where he appeared to be running his business out of his garage.  His E-unit Blomberg trucks were designed with an equalizing mechanism for all axles, but it was a little tricky to assemble. I built some F-7s and I had the kits for the transfer unit, but never got around to finishing it.

Very nice - the best I have seen.  Allan Wehrle sent me a nose that had been carefully split so the nose could taper inward, but I figured that the windshield area was too high, and the nose ahead of the windshield too short.  

Yes, Bob was sensitive about this nose - but he knew better; his sand cast PA was "spot-on".  He would not admit it.

It might be worth it to attempt a new master.  A nose would be around $100 in lost wax brass, small quantities.  That's just a guess, based on recent experience.

Here is Harmon's windshield:

And here is the tapered nose that I figured I could never quite salvage.  You can see how we tapered it - first slotting the top part, then splitting the nose and clamping, and finally soldering.  The windshield area is plated but not cut.  The nose next to it is MTH, which is pretty much as accurate as any PA out there, although the new Lionel is slightly better in the windshield area.  Note that the MTH nose is longer than the CLW nose.  If anybody wants to get more nosey, I have lots of comparative photos of noses, including these, the early CLW, Lionel, and Overland.  I have seen Key, and believe them to be dead-accurate, but I do not have photos to prove it.  PAs are, in my opinion, honorary steam locomotives!

Nice Bob, that GM&O #291 finish is gorgeous too, I appreciate the first generation caste version's nose too. The second version's shortcomings are obvious in side by side comparisons. The most frequently seen mod I've seen to compensate for the excessively large arched windshield issue is having the top edge of the windshield extended downward with putty or somesuch, using brass to alter the shape is an interesting idea. Yet neither addresses the nose curvature or length but does fool the eye to some extent.

Neat stuff

Here are a couple sets that my father built for other people in the early 1980's.  He did modify the noses and window areas also, so it must have been pretty well known that they were not correct. I have no idea where these units are now.

There were a number of these 40-2's he did.  I managed to buy back a couple of them a number of years ago from Pecos John but it cost me.

He must have been a master builder.  Very nice!

Am I correct to say this specific SD40-2 is the C&NW version with the bell on the nose?

Very nice indeed!  I wonder what John Smith was going to do with them, he's usually an AT&SF guy.

Yes, the two I got were indeed built to be C&NW.  I think John got them in a batch of stuff he bought from an estate maybe.  Whoever had them cut the pilots and put KD couplers on them.  I stripped the paint off them and had to order and install new pilot castings on them to restore them to as built, add plows and some other detail parts. One is done and in primer.

Here are some photos of Lou's machined-brass frame for an Atlas F-3 with P&D trucks. The last photo is of my A-B-B-A set of Rio Grande F-3s with new frames and trucks and CLW drive in one B unit (sufficient for my layout, which does not have any grades).

I have never owned any Atlas F's.  What is wrong with the frames, trucks, drive that come on them?

Nice paint!  Did you do that?

oscaletrains posted:

I have never owned any Atlas F's.  What is wrong with the frames, trucks, drive that come on them?

I may be wrong, but it seems that some Atlas F Units have problems pulling heavier loads on 2-rail track. 

It seems Atlas F Units need more weight for better traction with these heavy car loads and the Atlas original frames are unable to maintain that added weight within the plastic fuel tank (?could break easily?) or elsewhere.

However, this added weight in Atlas F Units may cause more strain and premature failure on the Plastic Gears in the Trucks, Drive Transmission, or the ?Sagami? electric motor that is installed. This weight could cause additional concerns with the engine torque, drive gears, and/or gear ratios used with the Trucks.

The 3/1/00 CLW OEM product description mentioned in the above message says, "With the 15:1 drive ratio, the test chassis for the GP38's through GP50's, pulled 45 Weaver 50' box cars, weighted to NMRA specifications, through two 72' radius curves at about 1.8 amps."  This might be great for a CLW engine pulling occasional long freight trains, but I doubt an unmodified Weaver transmission drive would last long with regular heavy pulling use unless it were upgraded. 

I wonder what CLW's owner Lou Houlemard (?sp?) would say about this thread, problems with Atlas F Units traction that requires modified CLW parts, and what he may suggest as CLW upgrade kits for Atlas frames...

I wish I could say I had painted these units (because they look so nice) but in fact they are stock Atlas Rio Grande F-3s. I wanted to replace the original vertical can motors with a horizontal drive for better performance characteristics, and I wanted to use P&D trucks (from OCS - Oriental Casting Service) because they are nicely equalized and sprung, and are beautifully detailed. The F-3 set with one motorized B-unit draws about 0.95 amp at 11 volts (ca. 55 mph) with a train of 28 freight cars, all of which roll on Intermountain wheelsets in Athearn trucks (not all are weighted to NMRA standards). I really like the yellow-on-black paint scheme from the 1940s, so these F-3s are proxies for as-delivered Rio Grande FT and early F-7 units. The A-B-B-A set was assembled from dummy Atlas units in both 2-rail and 3-rail versions. I use a Dallee diesel sound system that plays through a pair of large floor speakers. The real F-3s, of course, were delivered for use on the California Zephyr, and were equipped (as are the models) with steam generators. 

I purchased some drive parts from Lou at the "new" CLW when they first opened in California.  I felt that their sprockets, gearboxes, transmission tower and U-joints were a little sturdier and better quality than the Weaver / P&D stuff.  For one example, I'm pretty sure their upper sprocket was 10 or 12 teeth (Weaver used eight), and that was the one most prone to splitting in my experience.  Their axle gearboxes were 10:1 self-locking worm and a similar form factor to the Weaver / P&D boxes.

If you're really going to pull 45 cars with one loco, you should probably consider using a dual-shaft motor (or two motors), and two transmission towers so all of the torque is not going through a single chain.

A newer approach is to use 1:1 back-drivable gearboxes on the axles, and obtain all of the reduction through a central tower, or through use of a 19:1 gearhead motor.  The 1:1 boxes are heavy-duty 0.7 mod gears, and designed to handle heavy loads.  My $.02.

Center-tower gear-reduction and 1:1 gearboxes with symmetrical skew-cut gears (back-driveable) on axles were used to advantage by the late, great Doug Cockerham in his diesel rebuilds. My CLW unit has a dual-shaft motor with flywheels driving a sprocket chain tower at each truck. It has worked without fault for a good many years thus far and does not appear to be over stressed.

Hello all ...this lovely CLW  Fairbanks Morse surfaced at the March meet ...runs very well ...nice and heavy 

Cheers Carey 

Very nice.  Chain drive, or CLW worms on all axles?

Hello Bob...hope  this bottom shot helps identify the drive ....

Bob Smith made this engine as a non powered display piece initially for FM as a promotional piece to drum up business from railroads ?????

Questor posted:

oscaletrains posted:

I have never owned any Atlas F's.  What is wrong with the frames, trucks, drive that come on them?

I may be wrong, but it seems that some Atlas F Units have problems pulling heavier loads on 2-rail track. 

It seems Atlas F Units need more weight for better traction with these heavy car loads and the Atlas original frames are unable to maintain that added weight within the plastic fuel tank (?could break easily?) or elsewhere.

However, this added weight in Atlas F Units may cause more strain and premature failure on the Plastic Gears in the Trucks, Drive Transmission, or the ?Sagami? electric motor that is installed. This weight could cause additional concerns with the engine torque, drive gears, and/or gear ratios used with the Trucks.

The 3/1/00 CLW OEM product description mentioned in the above message says, "With the 15:1 drive ratio, the test chassis for the GP38's through GP50's, pulled 45 Weaver 50' box cars, weighted to NMRA specifications, through two 72' radius curves at about 1.8 amps."  This might be great for a CLW engine pulling occasional long freight trains, but I doubt an unmodified Weaver transmission drive would last long with regular heavy pulling use unless it were upgraded. 

I wonder what CLW's owner Lou Houlemard (?sp?) would say about this thread, problems with Atlas F Units traction that requires modified CLW parts, and what he may suggest as CLW upgrade kits for Atlas frames...

All I can say is that two Atlas F units pulled all 12 Zephyr cars with no problems.

Dick

Weren't they delivered with two axle power?

Thanks Corey - that is the latest CLW power iteration.  No wonder it runs so well.  Except for the Delrin chain and U joints, I regard that setup as the best of the commercially available Diesel power.

By "commercially available" I am excluding the excellent work done by Jay C, MMW, Kleinschmidt, Jerry Snow, Henry Bultmann - you get the idea.

Well here's my entry. I don't know much about the unit besides it runs well, it has a Pittman motor, it was made by CLW, and it's a GP20 which is what I have been looking for. I'm not sure if it originally came as a kit or not. The paint job looks to be custom but I will be changing that to reflect the one of the road names I run.

Dave

That’s an interesting model you have there!  Although it’s for a private road, the current color scheme is rather attractive, IMO.  I always liked the GP-20 and you don’t see models of them very often in O Scale.  A good find, for sure.  BTW, I assume you mean the motor is a “Pittman” rather than a “Pullman”.  

Frank McCabe posted:

That’s an interesting model you have there!  Although it’s for a private road, the current color scheme is rather attractive, IMO.  I always liked the GP-20 and you don’t see models of them very often in O Scale.  A good find, for sure.  BTW, I assume you mean the motor is a “Pittman” rather than a “Pullman”.  

Hey Frank,

Thanks for the correction on the type of motor, I did mean Pittman.  I do like the paint scheme as well and am in no rush to change it. Eventually I will, simply because I don't want to wait until I "find" the exact road name I am looking for. As you have stated it was a rare find and am not sure when I will come across another.

Dave

You are right, Dave.  I suspect they are as rare as hen’s teeth, so it’s good you got this one.

Considering how many locomotives the Rockford O Scalers have on our layout, we only have one GP-20 and it is a Milwaukee Road kitbash job based on a Red Caboose GP-9.

Frank McCabe posted:

You are right, Dave.  I suspect they are as rare as hen’s teeth, so it’s good you got this one.

Considering how many locomotives the Rockford O Scalers have on our layout, we only have one GP-20 and it is a Milwaukee Road kitbash job based on a Red Caboose GP-9.

That's certainly no surprise to me. I am not quite sure why this unit is so scarce in 2 Rail? I mean it's wasn't a rare unit in its hay day.

Hello all ..here is a link to see an early cast  CLW Alco PA ..pulling a set of Joe Fischer cars. 

easy to see the 17/ 64ths scale of the PA tower over the 1/4" scale of the cars .   

Unknown if the later   cast / etched  CLW PA's  are 1/4  or 17/64ths scale ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgmJjgC99zw

cheers Carey 

That is the kind of model RRing that I like.  Thanks.

If it helps any I run an etched PB between two all cast PAs.  Sizes are compatible.

Well, I used to run them.  All the sprockets are cracked.

Hello Bob ...sorry to hear you have cracked sprockets ......  ok so cast and etched same size ...good to know ..thank you for the info ..

Cheers Carey

You make it sound like an illness - "my sprockets are cracked, and I have broken feenies."

Solution is as close as Jay C's shop.  Someday . . .

Apparently CLW did a GP-15 also.

Hi I was looking for info on CLW as I have an Alco FA pair which I obtained part built. A nice model which I didn't realise was made so long ago. Hardly a mention of these in the trail. Mine have Pitman can motors in which were having problems moving the weight, so I dropped the chain gearing to give 1.5:1 by replacing the 12 teeth sprockets with 10 and 15 Very easy to do and has made a huge difference. They actually go faster now. 

I just purchased a set of O-Gauge 2-Rail CLW PA-1 A-1-A Trucks Kit (possibly from Overland), where mounting bolster assembly is different than the other riginal OEM CLW PA-1 Kit I own.

It seems that Overland purchased CLW PA-1 Trucks, but had to modify them to fit the Overland PA-1 bolster and chassis.  The custom Overland brass casting that mounts the cast leaf springs (not coil springs) to the Truck Frame appear to be custom made by Overland for an exact fit.  However, the unbuilt CLW Frame assembly mounting holes do not match up correctly.

Does anyone have a pic of a completed Overland PA-1 Truck that shows how the cast leaf spring casting attaches to mounting holes between the Truck Frame and the Bolster? I wonder if I received a complete set of Kit parts or if I need to make and solder in additional Brass parts...

Regards, Questor