My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
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WaynePa posted:My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
The discount thing is widely known I think. Hadn't heard the chair thing. While I'm pretty sure I am capable of standing for the meet, I feel like I block the view of my table too much when I do so, even just to stretch for a bit, or if I lend my chair to someone while conversing, so I would probably add a line item cost for a chair, unless it cost as much as the table. the admission and table prices as they currently are is still a very good deal, IMO.
As to the Senior Discount, it is financial reality. When you have an organization and 75% (or more) of the membership is eligible for such a discount, it cuts away at operating budget needed for the event.
It's like if AARP gave discounts to everyone over 60, when you need to be 50 to join to begin with. (not that I'm there yet 
- but it's a good analogy, as far as I am concerned)
-Dave
Eliminating the senior discount for admission may generate more income but it also solves the problem which existed regarding the lack of accurate data for confirming senior status eligibility. Charging table holders for chairs is another issue and comes across as less than necessary. Don't know of other shows/meets with that fee.
If they don't what to have a show just say so don't raise everything on the people still wanting t o come Let the workers at the show stall and see how that goes!Tanking away your chair IS JUST STUPID!
I am very glad that they finally raised the fee for all the members going to York. Mine went up $7. Happy to pay it.
I just received my November 2018 TCA official newsletter today. In it is a register for the April 11-13, 2019 York meet form. As far as chairs are concerned, all they ask for is the number needed; no cost listed for them. There is also an article on the new registration pricing schedule. After reading it, I have no problem with the fees, and yes, the senior rate affects me.
Side Rod
If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
Allan Miller posted:If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
I'm 76, and I agree 100%. However, I thought you had to be a TCA member for a lot of consecutive years to get the senior discount, besides just your age? If that was the case, it had also been a "reward" for consistent membership.
Nothing is cheaper ...With most of the membership not spring chickens, senior discount (for which l was entitled) doesn't make sense. One for youth might, in our demographics. Is that fee for EXTRA chairs and are you allowed to bring your own (that Lazyboy is REALLY going to block the aisles!) . Have not set up anywhere without a chair provided.
WaynePa posted:My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
Darn - just when I am ready to qualify for the senior discount. Charge for chairs??? Really??? The demographics of the hobby as such that a lot of us oder gentlemen need chairs on those hard floors. Even as a buyer only I often borrow (with permission) a seat for a few minutes to rest my "bad" leg. Are these things so or is this in the rumor mill?
Allan Miller posted:If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
True, but what a nice way to say, "thanks for your loyalty to TCA"......
if you're trying to grow the hobby and encourage young people to attend, shouldn't you do the opposite? Create a "youth discount?" Reduced admission for anyone UNDER the age of, say, 50? 
Allan Miller posted:If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
I was just making a statement that the senior discount was being eliminated and not that it would prevent me from going. As was pointed out the discount was based on being a TCA member for a minimum of ten years and reaching the age of 65. As far as proving your age all you needed to do was give them a copy of your driver license once and then it goes into your file.
Aa far as it being difficult for them to monitor they have a very sofisticated data system they cross references all your information.
I joined TCA in 1978; I’ll pay hoping things improve overall.
Wally
Joe Hohmann posted:Allan Miller posted:If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
I'm 76, and I agree 100%. However, I thought you had to be a TCA member for a lot of consecutive years to get the senior discount, besides just your age? If that was the case, it had also been a "reward" for consistent membership.
That is quite true. I'm 75 and have been a member since 1992. I qualify and registered for the senior discount, but don't believe I ever actually used it. Realizing that membership is decreasing due to a number of factors, and yet still desiring to support the TCA and the Eastern Division, I have no problem paying a few bucks more to attend each meet. The discount was a nice perk, but times have changed and it's certainly not unrealistic at this point to drop that discount.
I see the it similar to the old "life membership" thing for the TCA National that existed in the past. Obviously the life memberships led to a single large outlay of cash (compared to a single membership year) for those who were able to sign up for them when they were offered, but it also cut off any further charge for member ship forever for the organization beyond that initial payment, whether the member lived to be 60 or 100.
There was a more recent program along the same lines. The catch was something like "had to have 20 years with the organization", but you also "had to be over a certain age" (possibly 60 or 65, I forget without looking it up). I certainly met the minimum years of membership, but I'm an anomaly here who joined when I was 24 years old, so I am far under the minimum age requirement. I understand why the new program would not apply to me, as there is a very high probability I would outlive the point where the organization would start to lose money on me, membership-wise.
Everything in this realm is mathematics/statistics based. They don't offer free kids meals at Chuck E Cheese with an adult paying for a meal either.
-Dave
Aisle cameras! Send an invoice to offenders! Yeah, that's the ticket! 
dkdkrd posted:.............. On my last trip to York I experienced a 'plate reader' where there once were toll booths. It was in New York. My RV is licensed in Michigan. 'No matter!', I was later told. 'You'll get a bill!....and explanation of penalties for non-payment!'TMNL!
Off topic, but it's even more fun with a rental car. At least with your own vehicle you are only responsible for the toll.
Most rental cars charge a "convenience" fee for using their automatic toll payment devices or a later bill from a plate reader. The company I use for rentals charges ~ $4 per day (not per day you use toll roads, per day of the rental, whether you go anywhere near a toll road or not).
I believe in my example they are "kind" enough to cap it at ~ $20 per month, how nice of them! 
I used to pay less than $5 for a round trip on roads to/from an airport for cash... if I was to use the automated tolls, I would spend the toll cost plus that $20, only a 400% plus surcharge for my "convenience"(when I have no other option for the given route). For the moment, I have an alternate route that also accepts cash, but that may go away someday soon too.
-Dave
Just saw the notice in the Headquarters News. Although I've been in TCA for nearly 30 years, I'm still a few shy of 65. The few bucks it would have saved me is inconsequential - in fact, the meet fee is a tiny fraction of my cost to attend. I've never understood the reasoning behind giving someone a discount just because they have reached a certain age - judging by the amount of cash being tossed around at the meet, the TCA slice of the senior population isn't hurting.
But it does tick me off on a more macro level. This is yet another example where an unsustainable benefit was implemented, but the rug gets pulled out just when it's time for the next generation to take advantage of it. By paying full price, I've subsidized the cost for others for decades. Now, after patiently waiting my turn, the goal line gets moved.
If only the cost of attending York was the only place where this is happening...
WaynePa posted:My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
Just out of curiosity, exactly WHAT is costing more money? Are utilities costing more? Are the building rents going up? Are general repairs/updates to the buildings or parking lots becoming due? Is it general inflation? Or is someone getting greedy? Does anyone know?
Like I say, just curious. I live too far away to attend anyway, so I can't even begin to speculate.
If you live too far away to attend, why worry about it.
Allan Miller posted:If the elimination of the senior discount impacts your ability to go to York, you probably shouldn't be going anyway.
Absolutely!!!!
Mixed Freight posted:WaynePa posted:My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
Just out of curiosity, exactly WHAT is costing more money? Are utilities costing more? Are the building rents going up? Are general repairs/updates to the buildings or parking lots becoming due? Is it general inflation? Or is someone getting greedy? Does anyone know?
Like I say, just curious. I live too far away to attend anyway, so I can't even begin to speculate.
As with everything these days, nothing gets cheaper, it just keeps going up.
eddie g posted:If you live too far away to attend, why worry about it.
I thought I might be able to offer some intelligent input/advice to those who do care. Do you have a list of such persons, or do you not care to hang around with their type?
Dmaxdeere87 posted:Mixed Freight posted:WaynePa posted:My guess is this has been posted and perhaps already deleted. They are eliminating the senior discount at the Eastern Division York TCA meet. Seems the richest TCA Division needs to get more money to run the York meet. They also plan to charge table holders for chairs. The elimination of the senior discount could have a drastic impact on attendance.
Any thoughts?
Just out of curiosity, exactly WHAT is costing more money? Are utilities costing more? Are the building rents going up? Are general repairs/updates to the buildings or parking lots becoming due? Is it general inflation? Or is someone getting greedy? Does anyone know?
Like I say, just curious. I live too far away to attend anyway, so I can't even begin to speculate.
As with everything these days, nothing gets cheaper, it just keeps going up.
Yeah, not surprised. Probably a little bit of everything, if the truth is known.
Retirement's only a few year's away now for me. One of the things I plan on doing is more traveling to fun places and events.
Mixed Freight posted:is someone getting greedy? Does anyone know?Gee, I don't know, Bernie.
Dave45681 posted:I see the it similar to the old "life membership" thing for the TCA National that existed in the past. Obviously the life memberships led to a single large outlay of cash (compared to a single membership year) for those who were able to sign up for them when they were offered, but it also cut off any further charge for member ship forever for the organization beyond that initial payment, whether the member lived to be 60 or 100.
I'm a Life Member of the NMRA and have been for many years (the option has not even been offered for a long time now). I receive the monthly NMRA magazine and I'm sure it (mailing cost alone) has more than exhausted the reasonable amount I paid for the Life Membership way back when. I'm also a Life Member of the NRA, and the same applies there although I believe they still offer several levels of life memberships.
Life memberships can work for an organization ONLY if they wisely invest those monies when first received. Most do not think ahead far enough, so they end up in a bind.
Dave45681 posted:I see the it similar to the old "life membership" thing for the TCA National that existed in the past. Obviously the life memberships led to a single large outlay of cash (compared to a single membership year) for those who were able to sign up for them when they were offered, but it also cut off any further charge for member ship forever for the organization beyond that initial payment, whether the member lived to be 60 or 100.
There was a more recent program along the same lines. The catch was something like "had to have 20 years with the organization", but you also "had to be over a certain age" (possibly 60 or 65, I forget without looking it up). I certainly met the minimum years of membership, but I'm an anomaly here who joined when I was 24 years old, so I am far under the minimum age requirement. I understand why the new program would not apply to me, as there is a very high probability I would outlive the point where the organization would start to lose money on me, membership-wise.
Everything in this realm is mathematics/statistics based. They don't offer free kids meals at Chuck E Cheese with an adult paying for a meal either.
-Dave
I recall reading that Life membership deal was $100. Anyone know if that is true? Financially it would seem to have been a windfall for those who took it and a disaster for the TCA with dues now at $50. Were any actuaries involved in the calculations? Life membership accounting for inflation would need to be in the thousands to be anywhere near accurate. Didn't the NMRA do away with set figure Life Membership a few years back as it became apparent that their figure was way, way, way, too low?
Mixed Freight posted:Just out of curiosity, exactly WHAT is costing more money? Are utilities costing more? Are the building rents going up? Are general repairs/updates to the buildings or parking lots becoming due? Is it general inflation? Or is someone getting greedy? Does anyone know?
Like I say, just curious. I live too far away to attend anyway, so I can't even begin to speculate.
I think it must have been in the Headquarters News, as that is the only TCA thing I recall reading in the last week or so, but I saw a brief list that went with the announcement.
The one that I remember specifically is the EMT Services, they say a new company is doing that now and it's significantly more expensive. I think they also might have mentioned security as a increased cost with the new situation. As anyone who went to the meet 2 weeks ago can confirm, it was a change from the people who previously did security.
-Dave
Dave45681 posted:Off topic, but it's even more fun with a rental car. At least with your own vehicle you are only responsible for the toll.
Most rental cars charge a "convenience" fee for using their automatic toll payment devices or a later bill from a plate reader. The company I use for rentals charges ~ $4 per day (not per day you use toll roads, per day of the rental, whether you go anywhere near a toll road or not).
I believe in my example they are "kind" enough to cap it at ~ $20 per month, how nice of them!
-Dave
Rental cars are not any issue. I just bring my EZ-Pass along and stick it to the window for the duration of the rental, problem solved.
BobbyD posted:Dave45681 posted:I see the it similar to the old "life membership" thing for the TCA National that existed in the past. Obviously the life memberships led to a single large outlay of cash (compared to a single membership year) for those who were able to sign up for them when they were offered, but it also cut off any further charge for member ship forever for the organization beyond that initial payment, whether the member lived to be 60 or 100.
There was a more recent program along the same lines. The catch was something like "had to have 20 years with the organization", but you also "had to be over a certain age" (possibly 60 or 65, I forget without looking it up). I certainly met the minimum years of membership, but I'm an anomaly here who joined when I was 24 years old, so I am far under the minimum age requirement. I understand why the new program would not apply to me, as there is a very high probability I would outlive the point where the organization would start to lose money on me, membership-wise.
Everything in this realm is mathematics/statistics based. They don't offer free kids meals at Chuck E Cheese with an adult paying for a meal either.
-Dave
I recall reading that Life membership deal was $100. Anyone know if that is true? Financially it would seem to have been a windfall for those who took it and a disaster for the TCA with dues now at $50. Were any actuaries involved in the calculations? Life membership accounting for inflation would need to be in the thousands to be anywhere near accurate. Didn't the NMRA do away with set figure Life Membership a few years back as it became apparent that their figure was way, way, way, too low?
My dad started going to York in 74 and he seems to remember it being 100 or 150 for lifetime membership to tca back then. That was good bit of money then. Plus he said show was only blue and silver. Who would thought it would become what it is. He wishes now he paid for lifetime haha
gunrunnerjohn posted:Dave45681 posted:Off topic, but it's even more fun with a rental car. At least with your own vehicle you are only responsible for the toll.
Most rental cars charge a "convenience" fee for using their automatic toll payment devices or a later bill from a plate reader. The company I use for rentals charges ~ $4 per day (not per day you use toll roads, per day of the rental, whether you go anywhere near a toll road or not).
I believe in my example they are "kind" enough to cap it at ~ $20 per month, how nice of them!
-Dave
Rental cars are not any issue. I just bring my EZ-Pass along and stick it to the window for the duration of the rental, problem solved.
Gunrunner;
I tried that several years ago (in NY) and got a ticket since it wasn’t attached to my registered vehicle - have they changed that rule???
Apples55 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Rental cars are not any issue. I just bring my EZ-Pass along and stick it to the window for the duration of the rental, problem solved.
Gunrunner;
I tried that several years ago (in NY) and got a ticket since it wasn’t attached to my registered vehicle - have they changed that rule???
Apparently, when we bought new cars, they didn't even bother to collect the information about the cars, so none of mine are registered to the correct car, we don't own those cars now!
DMAXDEERE87 There was no silver hall till sometime after 2000. I can;t remember exactly what year it opened.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Apples55 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Rental cars are not any issue. I just bring my EZ-Pass along and stick it to the window for the duration of the rental, problem solved.
Gunrunner;
I tried that several years ago (in NY) and got a ticket since it wasn’t attached to my registered vehicle - have they changed that rule???
Apparently, when we bought new cars, they didn't even bother to collect the information about the cars, so none of mine are registered to the correct car, we don't own those cars now!
That's all well and good if the place you go is EZPass and not something else! I don't imagine it would work too well in Florida, since theirs is called Sunpass and it's not just a nameplate on the same transponder for the same system, to the best of my knowledge, it's a different system. (even if it is the same transponder, it won't do anything if they don't have your transponder number in their database as a valid transponder # )
I also recall them not liking swapping EZ Passes between cars way back when in PA (maybe 15 years ago or so). At the time I had 2 vehicles I would alternate driving, and when I didn't hold the thing up quite right one of the times I went through with the new car they had no knowledge about, it required a phone call to straighten out. I didn't get a ticket or anything, but it required attention.
I think you are right that now they care less than they used to (possibly when all the plate reading stuff got added when they eliminated cash booths at some places.
Also, when the thing eventually dies, you start to get what's called a "V-toll" that they process based on your license plate (sorry, "tag" here in PA - I never did get used to that ) Those are not cheap (unless you travel far, then they are possibly cheaper at $5 a pop), so you want to keep track of your account somewhat regularly if you frequently use the toll roads. I was refunded all of my excess tolls, but I had to manually enter a bunch of requests on line saying each was my daily commute. this was probably within the last 2 1/2 years or so.
-Dave
eddie g posted:DMAXDEERE87 There was no silver hall till sometime after 2000. I can;t remember exactly what year it opened.
I don't have the exact date in my head either(though I think other's have told me it might be 1996), but I think you are possibly a little late there. I only started going in 1997, and I am pretty sure Silver always existed.
I do recall Gold and Green cycling on and off in terms of being open back then (before Orange opened), but Silver was constant for all of my visits, I believe.
-Dave
bmoran4 posted:
Always? For a story dated of an occurrence within the last month?
I'm pretty sure when EZ Pass was new in NY, it was not allowed.
The more recent change regarding EZ Pass that ticked me off was how NY (and possibly other areas) decided to rescind the previously offered discount for EZ Pass if your transponder was not from their "home base". I used to get a buck or 2 off when crossing the $17 Verazanno bridge in NY with my PA transponder, I now get nothing. I pay same as cash would have been (if they still did cash - that's one of the new ones with no booths). I used to get an even better discount when going through at odd hours in the middle of the night, to avoid busy times, now it's full fare.
They will issue one to you if you live out of the area, but then there is the hassle of switching them back and forth. Too much to deal with IMO (and with my luck, it would read both of them when I go through!).
-Dave
BobbyD posted:Dave45681 posted:I see the it similar to the old "life membership" thing for the TCA National that existed in the past. Obviously the life memberships led to a single large outlay of cash (compared to a single membership year) for those who were able to sign up for them when they were offered, but it also cut off any further charge for member ship forever for the organization beyond that initial payment, whether the member lived to be 60 or 100.
There was a more recent program along the same lines. The catch was something like "had to have 20 years with the organization", but you also "had to be over a certain age" (possibly 60 or 65, I forget without looking it up). I certainly met the minimum years of membership, but I'm an anomaly here who joined when I was 24 years old, so I am far under the minimum age requirement. I understand why the new program would not apply to me, as there is a very high probability I would outlive the point where the organization would start to lose money on me, membership-wise.
Everything in this realm is mathematics/statistics based. They don't offer free kids meals at Chuck E Cheese with an adult paying for a meal either.
-Dave
I recall reading that Life membership deal was $100. Anyone know if that is true? Financially it would seem to have been a windfall for those who took it and a disaster for the TCA with dues now at $50. Were any actuaries involved in the calculations? Life membership accounting for inflation would need to be in the thousands to be anywhere near accurate. Didn't the NMRA do away with set figure Life Membership a few years back as it became apparent that their figure was way, way, way, too low?
Yes. The Lifetime TCA Membership was offered around '76-'77 for $100.
The money went to the TCA Museum construction. As far as I know, that was the sole reason for the Lifetime Membership option. 
I joined the TCA in December, 1972, & have an early "73" number.
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