Choo - Choo sound

I have heard of that also but being Lionel person can't help you bet believe it's out there you may need to goto a AF type site

WHAT?  This is the S gauge page of the Forum & a totally proper place to seek such advice.  Don't give up, Art Young.   Someone here will see this & reply.  (BTW, you apparently posted a duplicate message of this same question, which you may want to delete to avoid confusion).

Postwar Flyer steam locomotives had the smoke in the tender feature in 1946 and 1947 only. The smoke unit had its own motor. The first ones used a cloth diaphragm, and then they switched to the familiar piston and cylinder system. In 1948, Flyer moved the smoke and choo-choo to the boiler.

I have both HO and S Flyer engines with the smoke and choo-choo in the tender. They were made in 1946 and 1947. The HO engine was a J3 Hudson and the S-Scale engines were the K-5 Pennsylvania Pacific, The NYC Hudson, the 0-8-0 switcher and the UP Northern. All are powered by a separate motor in the tender. Most have cloth bellows for making the choo-choo but some came with pistons and there are kits available to convert the bellows to piston. Additionally there is a can motor conversion available from Port Line Hobbies. Note the units in both the HO and S-scale are the same. It is a tight fit in the HO Hudson tender.

Flyer has had choo-choo units in tenders since 1940. There are several engines that do in postwar S gauge. I believe a PRR K-5 #312 and a NYC Hudson #326 had the Choo-choo and smoke unit in the tender. These were the only 2 models that had the features in the tender. I don't think a 0-8-0 ever had this feature.

FYI The 342 0-8-0 switcher had this option as I own one.

OK, it was the 4-8-4 that didn't.

Actually the UP Northern did have a smoke in tender unit however not very many were made so it is a very hard engine to find but they do exist.

The 342 with smoke in tender can be seen at the top of page 61 in Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Vol. 1, 4th Edition. Personally, I have a 312 Pacific with the piston type SIT and a 322 Hudson with the bellows type. One enjoyable feature of these is the ability to have it sit idle on a siding just puffing away in neutral.

As other posters have alluded to, AF did have a self contained motor and "choo-choo" mechanism that mounted in the tender on some models. I have a spare piston chugger unit myself. I'll try to dig it out and post a photo....

Hello and thanks for all your replies, I knew if there was an answer I'd find it here on the Forum. I really do appreciate it. Now all I have to do is find one at a show or maybe here on the Buy/Sell page or the TCA News.

I'd like to try to squeeze one into a #2426W Tender for my #773 - now THAT would be my idea of the perfect postwar engine!

As an aside, I remember when Lionel bought Flyer back in the 60's, and being disappointed that they (Lionel) never did anything like that with any engine, or even produced an operating Mail Car for "0". I know now that they had their own money problems as well, but - ah, what a missed opportunity.

D&H 65, I'd like to see a photo if you can post one - thanks!

Having choo-choo sounds in the tender was nothing new for Gilbert after WW 2. In their pre war 3/16th trains on O gauge track they produce a separately powered choo-choo sound system. This was not like the post war versions. I have a pre war Royal Blue tender that has sound system in it. Due to zinc pest many of the pre war sound units do not reproduce the sounds as they did when new.

Art: Here's pix of a smoke in tender self contained assembly....

Art, these original units were made in 1946 and 1947 as smoke (and choo choo) in tender. In 1948 changed to a smoke in boiler system. They got two benefits from that change, one motor was eliminated so it was now cheaper to make and Gilbert could now advertise that the smoke and choo choo were synchronized with the side rod movement. I think your plan is a good one. The original motors and heating units were designed for 15V maximum. They will work well at higher voltages but may have a much shorter life. 

D&H 65 and AmFlyer:  Gentlemen, I thank you both for the photos and measurements and the voltage limit. I think I can make it fit in my tender with a little work. Major:  I might look for the prewar example to see if it might be smaller, and might check on the DC conversion kit as well. Time to go shopping !  Thanks to everybody!

Keep in mind prewar is choo choo only, post war is smoke and choo choo. 

The pictures posted above actually appear to be of an Erector #7 Smoke and Choo-choo unit. These were sold as an add-on to Erector sets to provide smoke/sound for Erector projects. They were nearly identical to the smoke-in-tender units but are easy to spot by the different fill spout, lack of on/off switch on the base, and the fahnstock clips instead of direct wiring. Having noted these differences, I expect one could use such a unit in a converted tender.

Note that the #7 Erector kit is highly prized by Erector collectors and typically commands a higher price than a complete smoke-in-tender unit. They do show up occasionally in the Erector category on eBay.

EDIT: Here is a pretty clear pic of a tender smoke unit from a 312 tender, probably vintage 1947.

EDIT: I spotted an Erector #7 Kit on eBay: Here

So THAT is what D&H has in his pictures! I have never seen a smoke and choo-choo unit without the switch and clips in stead of hard wiring.

Thanks Craig for taking the time to correct my mis-conceptions about my unit.