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Got the chuff generator installed in a lionel tmcc e6 6-18095.  This loc also has installed a cruise commander m and r4lc. The chuff generator is powered by a 5 volt dc board. Chuff test mode went well. Light flashes as it read each line on the tach strip. Configured the board to 4 chuffs per rev. Then things went south. Powered the loc up and the railsounds started right away. Engine responded to all commands. Attempted to move it forward and the engine creeped along as expected. The chuff sounded like a machine gun. Had to unplug the tender to make it stop. Retested the engine without the tender and all functions worked correctly.  Not sure what could be wrong. Reprogrammed the chuff board and no change. 

Any ideas?

Played with it some more tonight.   If I disconnect the power to the chuff board but leave the chuff input connected, the engine and tender start up perfectly. Tender is quiet until I address the engine. I then reconnected the chuff board. Applied power. Tender started up right away. And when I turn the voltage all the way up, without moving the engine, the tender started chuffing at warp speed.

I then disconnected the chuff input but left it connected to power. Engine powered up correctly. Tender quiet. I then noticed a difference in the chuff board. The led light was out. And it only lit up every quarter turn of wheel rotation.  When the chuff input was connected, the led was always dimly lit and turned bright the moment full power was applied. So it appears its something feeding back into the chuff input.

So..... what do you think is the magical tweak to get it happy? Something must be unique with this older tmcc loc.

Last edited by Joe Fermani

Truthfully, I'm at a loss.  I'm afraid I'd have to see how this is wired, I've never seen anything like that.  Are you SURE the chuff output from the C-G is connected to the proper place and any old chuff switch is disconnected?  Since the LED is blinking correctly, the sensor and chuff computation is obviously working.

It sounds like the port on the uP on the C-G has been cooked by injecting voltage into it, it wouldn't like that.

If you disconnect the chuff output and connect an LED and 100 ohm resistor in series between the chuff output andthe 5V on the C-G, do you see the chuff output pulsing in time with the on-board LED?

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I will wire that in tonight and see what it does.

 I am not ruling out me doing something dumb with the install.   As for the wiring, I am using one of your 5 volt dc board kits.  I built that and tested it with my meter and confirmed its putting out 4.97 volts dc.  I have that connected to the hot (rollers wire) and frame ground.  The DC end is then connected to the chuff board.  The original chuff switch was connected to the motherboard via a 3 pin molex connector (only 2 pins were used ).  I removed that connector (and switch) and created a new molex connector with only one wire coming off of it (the non ground connection) and fed that to the chuff board.  I even put a piece of electrical tape over the motor to ensure the chuff board does not ground out to the motor casing.

I have 3 other chuff boards I am going to install in other locs.  I am hesitant to try one of those boards in case something is screwing up this current chuff board.  Do i need to trace the chuff input from the motherboard and see where it goes?

Should I put a meter to the chuff wire and to ground to see if there is voltage?  Should I get any readings on that wire?

The chuff input normally will show some voltage as there's a pull-up resistor on the R2LC.  The stock chuff switch simply grounds that pin to produce the chuff.  The C-G attempts to do the same thing, ground that pin to produce the chuff. 

What confuses me is the behavior you're seeing, that is more than a little odd.  At this point, I'm simply trying to determine if the C-G is working properly, then we can see if we can figure out what is happening elsewhere.

Hrm...  Not sure what to try next.  I know the 5 volt board is putting out the correct voltage.  Verified the positive lead is connected to the positive lead on the Chuff board. Verified I am using the correct pin off the motherboard chuff connection to the chuff board.  I retried the LED test with a flashing LED to ensure the DC power coming from the 5 volt board is filtered.  I know from a prior upgrade that flashing LEDs do not work with half wave DC. The LED flashed, so I know the DC power coming in is good.  When its all connected the red light on the chuff board lights up and never goes off.  I could try and put the old motor driver back in and I could trace the chuff connection on the motherboard and see where it goes.

So based on the LED testing, the chuff board defaults to a ground connection and interrupts the connection for the chuff.  And this was suppose to be a simple upgrade...

I'm at a loss here.  Since the chuff output of the C-G is toggling correctly, it's obviously not dead.  The ONLY thing that is connected to the chuff output should be an input on the R4LC since you don't have the Super-Chuffer.  Given that fact, connecting almost anything to the R4LC input between the range of 0 to 5V shouldn't be an issue.

One thing occurs to me.  How exactly are you powering the 5V board, and EXACTLY what 5V board are you using?  I'm thinking there is a grounding issue with the 5V board.  If the 5V board has a full wave rectifier on the input, that would cause the 5V ground of the C-G NOT to be at frame ground, that is a very bad thing.  Let's start looking at other things as the C-G is working when it's floating without any ground reference.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

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