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I read most of what I could find, including the current discussion in the other circuit breaker post.  I'm still a little confused.  As I understand it, it would be prudent to have protection between the wall socket and the transformer, then again between the transformer and the track.   But then again something else to protect the electronics in the modern engines, yes?

So, I'll put a surge protector between wall and transformer, that's obvious.   I'm using 14ga wire from my MODERN ZW-L for my bus wire. (2 independent loops running conventional, A and D on my ZW-L)    I see a lot of discussion from folks that understand way more than I regarding this.   In the end, what is the absolute best type of breaker (specifically what and where to buy, a link would be helpful) that I should put in line between the transformer and the bus wire?   SO, I think that is what protects the transformer?   But what for the modern locos?  thx guys,  please make it easy on me!   What amp/type breakers should I be wiring in?

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I'm not sure.  I'm seeking to build in protection in while I am in the design and construction phase of my 17x12 layout before I fry something I wish I hadn't.   It seems to me (novice) that you guys already with great layouts already probably figured this out, so I'm asking.  Protect the house, ZW-L, layout and the trains.

You may be reinventing the wheel

A little information is required…

1. What type of Electrical Panel is in your home? Fuses or Circuit Breakers..How old if Circuit Breakers? If a newer panel, it may already have protection  

1a. A power strip may be false security..is it a Surge Protector or a Surge Suppressor?   “What is the difference between a surge protector and surge suppressor? Surge protector avoids voltage spikes in electrical devices while Surge suppressor regulates the voltage making power constant if a splurge occurs.”

2. The ZW-L has fault detection and protection built in that monitors the track, and any issues that might occur from that part of the system…but in-line protection to your track, can add peace of mind.
I am not certain on the Amp/Current rating that the ZW-L trips at, on each throttle…or the speed it trips the internal breaker…but they do make in-line fuses that trip ultra fast…

https://www.swe-check.com.au/p...learn_fuse_speed.php  



I run MTH DCS with an MTH Z-4000…and I have no in-line fuses to my track, because the MTH built in protection is fast and reliable…

one concern is that you add fast acting protection and it “acts to fast”, which interferes with your railroad operation enjoyment…because it trips at the slightest issue or it’s rated to low…



But, it’s your peace of mind (or that of your significant other😁) that matters here…my wife is always concerned about Fire risk…to the point of being a “Karen”…and it does not help that her name actually is “Karen” 😀

But once I start recording-she stops…so that’s a blessing😁

Here’s my MISC

The Manchester Intermodal Service Center…I run alternating power blocks with parallel feeds-to 12 sections.
https://youtu.be/h96jQEJ__oo



Good Luck.

@Hp289 posted:

I read most of what I could find, including the current discussion in the other circuit breaker post.  I'm still a little confused.... type of breaker (specifically what and where to buy, a link would be helpful) that I should put in line between the transformer and the bus wire?   SO, I think that is what protects the transformer?   But what for the modern locos?  thx guys,  please make it easy on me!   What amp/type breakers should I be wiring in?



Here's a link to a bit more reading for understanding the locomotive protection issues you're asking about:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...circuit-breaker-help

@Hp289 posted:

I'm not sure.  I'm seeking to build in protection in while I am in the design and construction phase of my 17x12 layout before I fry something I wish I hadn't.   It seems to me (novice) that you guys already with great layouts already probably figured this out, so I'masking.  Protect the house, ZW-L, layout and the trains.

I used automotive glass fuses, (7.5 amps or less)  Fuse holders were from Grainger electrical supply.

9ac400cc-a46d-462c-82e5-c4285d04fab4_zps8d1ba44c[1]

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Last edited by Mike CT

My layout is 10 x 23. I feel perfectly safe relying on the 15 or 20 amp circuit breakers in my home's electrical panel.

I use lionel ph 180 bricks that have their own fast acting circuit breakers. These are 180 watt so the max current draw is 10 amps, well under the house breakers.

The MTU TIU I use has internal 20 amp fuses as well as voltage spike protection (TVS) on each channel.The absolute best place for TVS is in the engine protecting onboard electronics but I will probably add a few TVS around the track at drop locations.

I do use a 4-plug gang box that has a on-off switch coming from the wall socket which everything plugs into just for convenience.

I don't feel the need to add anything more to my electrics.

"These are 180 watt so the max current draw is 10 amps, well under the house breakers."

10 amp being drawn from a PH180 causes about a 1.5 amp draw from the house 120-volt service, plus a minor adjustment for transformer efficiency.  This is the basis for ADCX Rob's observation.

Using a ground fault protection 120VAC receptacle would be a good idea.

Uh, nope. 10 amps is 10 amps.  10 amps x 18vac = 180 watts. That is the maximum power available.

I believe Rob is assuming a 2 amp draw under normal operating conditions.

Uh, nope.  A 120 volt 20 amp household circuit is capable of delivering 20 amps / 2400 watts.

10 fully loaded PH180 bricks(1800 watts / 100 amps output) would draw about 2500 watts from the mains, so 10 bricks at nominal usage is easily supported with some overhead available.

Last edited by ADCX Rob
@ADCX Rob posted:

Uh, nope.  A 120 volt 20 amp household circuit is capable of delivering 20 amps / 2400 watts.

10 fully loaded PH180 bricks(1800 watts / 100 amps output) would draw about 2500 watts from the mains, so 10 bricks at nominal usage is easily supported with some overhead available

Well I must apologize as I am failing to apply the ratio to the current. Using power calculations you can theoretically get 2400/180 = 13  on the 20 amp circuit. This doesn't account for loss in the step down and assumes all 180s are seeing just under a full load, so I doubt the max is that many. I doubt I'll ever need more than 4 anyway.

Guys, we are a little sidetracked from my original question.   Assume the following, conventional setup with modern ZW-L.  Running postwar with some new Legacy/visionline engines.   My initial drawing shows generally what I'm up to.  So, I will install either the Airpax breakers Steve seems to like...

https://www.onlinecomponents.c...00aobv-10090638.html

or the...

PSX1, GRJohn seems to like...  Have ya'll come to consensus which is "better" for our model train application?   I do not have the knowledge base to pick one.  And, the PSX, when it trips, how do I reset it?   On the airpax, why 5amp?  shouldn't I want a 7.5 or 10 amp?  

Moving to the TVS... zooming in on one of my loops... excuse primitive drawing...



The system I'm going with (see my test mock up) uses Post-tap connectors to tap into my 14ga bus, 16ga coming out to a crimp on spade.  Actually, based on what I've been reading I'll probably have 2 16ga wires coming out of the tap to have one to outside and one to inside rail.  (Gargraves/Ross).   I read this is preferred over just one to the outside.

Using this system, where do you suggest I wire in the TVS?   Every feeder?  I have 2 independent double-loops.  So that's going to be like 40 feeders I think.  

I was not planning to use the black terminal strips, and don't care to if possible.

I would be most grateful for constructive instruction/comment on point.  

thank you for sharing your knowledge.

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