Considerations for Getting Started/Diesel Chessie Engines

gblauvelt posted:

Just getting started with O gauge.  I found a Craigslist O-27 steam engine from the 1990s and have been running that around on Lionel Fastrack.  My father had some old Lionel, so he provided a ZW transformer and a 1950s Berkshire and some old rolling stock.  My son and I want to get some diesel engines, but I am getting some mixed messages.

I grew up with Chessie system trains, so I would like to add Chessie diesel engines.  The yard near me used to be C&O.  I guess the balance I am trying to figure out is getting a train type that I would have seen, finding a relatively reliable engine, and trying to find an engine that is reasonably priced (I am not really interested in the high end stuff, so ideally under $150).  I remember looking at some Chessie trains in hobby stores when I was younger (probably saw the late 1980s Lionel hopper kit in stores), so part of me is interested in looking for late 1980s Lionel, but in terms of that balance, I just wanted to get your sense of if everything is in the same general price range, which direction would you go?

These are the options I see (if I am missing a good alternative, please let me know):

1) Lionel 6-18201 Chessie SD40 Diesel Locomotive #8201 - this is sort of the nostalgia path where this was a relatively common engine that I saw growing up from a set I wanted to get.  My concern is that this might be a little less reliable than some other engines with higher costs to repair.  

I have this engine.  It has proven to be quite reliable IMHO.  It's old school; growler motors and mechanical e-unit but it never misses a beat.  I will say that with the command engines I have now, it gets less use than years past.  But I've done nothing to it except general maintenance.

2) Williams Chessie System GP38-204 - this is probably going to cost a little more, but it is a newer engine, probably easier to repair.  More reliable?

3) Lionel 6-28827 Chessie GP-38 - a little later model Lionel from early 2000s.  I believe this was lower end Lionel, so quality is an issue.

If you were looking at those paths, is there a way you might lean over another?

Tony

I'd go with the Williams GP-38.....solid as a rock reliable. Watch ebay and you will find it in the $100-125 range easy. Any of the Williams locos will run on O-31 track and work  well for you. Good luck! 

These Lionel SD-40 units are cheap too....these cost me $150 for the pair.  

Thanks so much for the help.

AMCDAVE, it looks like you have two of the three options I was looking at.  Those Lionel are the SD40 I was looking at.

So, from owning both, your preference would be the Williams engine?

Yes. I'd go with WbB first as they are smooth and quiet runners over the Lionel.   IMHO

Thanks so much for the advice.  Last question, it looks like new, there are a few WbB Chessie GP-38s at $160 w/o shipping.  From your experience, is there a lot of value to buying new over used or would you recommend keeping an eye out for something closer to the $100-$125 price range?  

Again, thank you for your help.

3) Lionel 6-28827 Chessie GP-38 - a little later model Lionel from early 2000s.  I believe this was lower end Lionel, so quality is an issue.

Gblauvelt, quality is not really an issue with that and many other locomotives of that sort. I run many of this sort of locomotive - with plastic gears and truck mounted motors. I have NEVER had a DOA not once nor have I ever had a warranty issue or to return anything for factory service. This is not just modern-era Lionel, but MPC-era Lionel and K-Line also. I'm still running everything I have ever bought.

Granted they may not have all the features... many do not have sound, but since I use an off-board sound system, not an issue for me. Many have plastic truck side frames and couplers... not an issue for me, but some prefer die cast. For me, the smaller size is an overriding factor that these sorts of engines look better on a smaller layout with smaller traditional sized rolling stock. There's also a price advantage too, especially on the secondary market.

Now I do take care of my engines, keeping them properly lubricated and not setting these locos down on carpeting, which is a really bad idea and yet I have seen photos and videos of many who have done this. You're really increasing your odds of gear problems by doing this. And metal gears are not immune from careless handling either.

No argument though, as AMC Dave mentioned, Williams makes a quality no-frills product and there are certainly some good prices on these products if you are patient and keep your eye open. Williams has previously made some other model locomotives like the GP9 in Chessie System also. There's not much to go wrong with these engines: No fancy electronics or digital control, though the more recent production models have WBB "True-Blast" sound.

The other consideration - though maybe not for you - is the size of some of these diesels, especially the SD40, which is going to dwarf your other engines and rolling stock. The Williams GP's sit a little lower than other competitors models like the traditional Lionel models. So even though that Williams GP38 is around 15 inches long, it sits lower to the track and so will look better with some of the trains you already have.

Another thought to add, is to buy either from some one reputable with a good satisfaction level, or from a dealer or a tech who has serviced and looked over the engine before selling it. If you are knowledgeable on the products and are good at making your own repairs, then that's different. But if you are not, take your time. If looking on auction sites, look for items with multiple photos so you see all sides, top and bottom too. Seeing the bottom side of a locomotive can to some degree, help indicate how well it has been maintained.

There are also some Atlas O Chessie Engines out there with TMCC.  I have an SD35 and there are U23B engines - all of which will MU up with Lionel Engines just fine.  Another option is getting an MTH Engine (like a Proto 1 GP38-2 and installing TMCC in it (which I did and MU'd it to my Atlas engine).

gblauvelt posted:

Thanks so much for the advice.  Last question, it looks like new, there are a few WbB Chessie GP-38s at $160 w/o shipping.  From your experience, is there a lot of value to buying new over used or would you recommend keeping an eye out for something closer to the $100-$125 price range?  

Again, thank you for your help.

80% of my WbB are 'used' often just displayed and run little. 

I have 2 Chessies

The GP-20 was an ebay purchase- Its a MPC Lionel. Runs great but the e-unit is a little balky at times.

The S-1 is a K-line from Trainz.com- runs great but I had to re-wire the motors in series (no it doesn't have the series/ parallel switch), it was lightning fast and I couldn't switch cars without it crashing.

Both get heavy use on my layout- which you a looking at about half of (yea its small)

brianel027, I don't have a ton of experience with trains.  Ideally, the goal is to keep it small and figure out the basics of keeping the trains in good running order.  My son does occasionally like to see trains run on the floor, so we bought Fastrack to make sure there is an added barrier.  I keep the engines off the floor itself.  Great point about sellers.  I'll keep that in mind.  I think there is a O gauge train show in Connecticut in June.  Would you recommend those as much as good sources?  One good thing about a son who loves trains is that we've been to every train store in a two-hour radius of our home in the last couple of months--in addition to 3-4 train shows.  The bad thing is that most train stores near me aren't selling much used.  It looks like the side effect of Craigslist and Ebay is that a lot of people are going around experienced people who can look the train over and make sure it is in good running order.  Sometimes that makes sense where the owner is knowledgeable, but other times it seems like more and more trains are being sold by people who aren't really sure what they have, what it is really worth, and what condition the piece is in.  I've made a few mistakes already where my inexperience and a seller's inexperience has led to frustration.

C&O ALLIE, just as you mention that, it looks like an MTH GP38-2 is up for sale.  I'll keep an eye on that.  MTH kind of scares me in terms of more things to go wrong, but they have a solid reputation.  Definitely a consideration.

RSJB18, that GP20 is really nice.  Pretty sure that I begged my dad to buy that same Lionel engine years ago--not really understanding everything that goes into putting together an O scale track.  I definitely am planning to stay in the smaller layout area for now.