Converting to TMCC

Is it worth it? you need to ask yourself that question, As if your looking into it as resale down the road no. Can it be done I would say yes. A lot will probably say why are you wanting to put tmcc into a $75 engine. To me I do it, I plan keeping it and for the easy use of the engine yes. You can always run them in conventional by turning off the tmcc. So to me yes it is worth it. 

I plan on converting some Williams GG1's. Could I recoup my money? No way. but for my enjoyment yes it is worth it.

rtraincollector posted:

A lot will probably say why are you wanting to put tmcc into a $75 engine. 

Of course, that 1988 Hiawatha is worth a good deal more than $75, and I would think it would be worth adding TMCC to that set. Obviously, it should be an item you plan to run and keep.

velocipede1895 posted:

Hello all!

I was wondering if there is a way to convert the 1988 tinplate Lionel Hiawatha to tmcc, or any older engines like the general or 221, and if it's even worth doing.  Most of the ones I have/want are conventional, and I would like to convert them at some point.

Thanks!

Yes!  What you need is the TMCC circuit board with heat sink and the molex plug w/ pigtails that plugs into it. Also a little two-pin molex for the antenna (a piece of wire will do).

Pictured is a Rio Grande F with TMCC. In the foreground is a TMCC reciever/throttle/conventional E-unit and a Molex power plug. The three motor wires (2 armature and one field), ground and track power connect to it.

ERR makes an AC Commander kit that should work fine for you. I've installed 4 AC Commanders and 2 Cruise Commanders in my conventional locomotives over the past several weeks. Easy to do and now I've got a fully command control fleet, with all my diesel locomotives TMCC and my steam locomotives DCS.

It's YOUR train, so you're entitled to make it your own; in this case, by adding TMCC to it. However, the modification will probably cancel-out its original value to a future buyer; except if that buyer also values the TMCC conversion. IMHO, TMCC adds much more operational fun to a loco, so it INCREASES the "fun factor" with a CAB-1 (or other Lionel controllers) in hand.

Another FORUM member already noted that TMCC-equipped (or modified) locos can also be run in CONVENTIONAL mode; use the slide switch on the TMCC Command Base to change its function from COMM (Command) to CONV (Conventional) mode and let an accompanying Lionel PowerMaster do the work - changing the track voltage (and therefore, speed) of the loco through  a CAB-1.

Mike Mottler     LCCA 12394
mottlerm@gmail.com

Actually, you can't simply change the PowerMaster to CONV and run a TMCC locomotive in conventional mode.  The TMCC track signal is still present and the locomotive will still be in TMCC mode.  You have to either truly disable the reception of the TMCC signal by the locomotive or turn off the command base.

One way to disable TMCC reception is to add a switch to connect the antenna to frame ground for conventional running.  As to why you'd ever want to run a TMCC locomotive on a TMCC/Legacy layout in conventional mode, that's a mystery, at least to me.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, you can't simply change the PowerMaster to CONV and run a TMCC locomotive in conventional mode.  The TMCC track signal is still present and the locomotive will still be in TMCC mode.  You have to either truly disable the reception of the TMCC signal by the locomotive or turn off the command base.

Depends on if they have the old TMCC PowerMasters as the Cab-1 remotes talked to them directly, so you could run TMCC locomotives in conventional with a TMCC remote.  But if there is a base plugged in then yes the command locomotives will be listening to the command signal.

It is indeed something that I am considering, especially since it seems as though the value of the engines in question seem to be decreasing, especially for the 1970s General, and converting to some sort of command control may even increase the value.  I'm on the edge of selling the Hiawatha and some of my Lionchief sets, especially now that technology continues to change with Lionchief 2.0, and how some of those engines may be cheaper in the future.  The technology is good, but expensive, and some of the Lionchief engines seem somewhat cheap in appearance, such as the recent General set in comparison to the 1970s version, in of which itself is certainly lacking in detail.

breezinup posted:

rtraincollector posted:

A lot will probably say why are you wanting to put tmcc into a $75 engine. 

Of course, that 1988 Hiawatha is worth a good deal more than $75, and I would think it would be worth adding TMCC to that set. Obviously, it should be an item you plan to run and keep.

I was just saying Don't expect a $75 engine now to be worth the value of it + the cost of the TMCC upgrade

I've converted several locomotives to command, it can certainly be done.  For tinplate, you have to deal with the antenna, on one unit I insulated all the handrails on the tender to use as an antenna.

If you are thinking of adding TMCC merely to increase their value, you are missing an important relevant point: The market determines the value of any locomotive.

You would be gambling that a future buyer would pay a lot more for a locomotive merely because it has TMCC. Not the case necessarily. First, the locomotive has to be considered desirable. Second, there has to be enough people clamoring for modern electronics in very old locomotives. Third, converting to TMCC isn’t cheap, especially if you pay someone else to do the installation, so you have to cover that cost in any sale.

My advice is that should convert those locomotives to TMCC for your own enjoyment and not because you think you could sell them for more money.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've converted several locomotives to command, it can certainly be done.  For tinplate, you have to deal with the antenna, on one unit I insulated all the handrails on the tender to use as an antenna.

I did a tinplate Hiawatha 4-4-2 and insulated the ladder on the top of the tender for an antenna. Works fine.

"resale down the road"

We operators don't care; I don't buy stuff to re-sell it. I do sell things from time to time - to clear them out, at a loss, always. They are like used cars. I don't sell much. 

 "The market determines the value of any locomotive."

Really? I think we all have known that for a very long time. 

TMCC belongs in everything. The older Pre-War "tinplate" can present antenna challenges - no plastic areas.

(I have a Standard Gauge TMCC project in the back of my head. Probably never do it.)

My thinking as well. Operators have entirely different priorities than do collectors. I care not that my Rio Grande 6-21955 Royal Gorge set has a cash value of much less that original retail. How it looks and runs is what matters to me and any money I might spend to make it look more prototypical or run better would be money well spent. Nothing I could do to that train would increase its dollar value because I think prices are mostly determined by collectors and they don't want stuff that has been changed....or perhaps even run.

Lew

I have 5 diesel locomotives I recently converted to TMCC/Railsounds using ERR kits. I did that because the cost of the parts to convert the locomotives was cheaper than replacing them. They were all running fine and I liked them so it made sense to me. 

If you're thinking of making money/breaking even on model trains don't worry, you won't. Like any hobby (cars, boats, sports, video games, etc) it's something to do with disposable income, i.e. money you can waste. Just consider any money spent on hobby items as money spent on enjoyment, not an investment. 😁.

All advice is great, the only tmcc engine I have is the torpedo from 1997.  Conversions don't necessarily need to be tmcc, but whatever the cheapest command-control is.  I think that in the next few years, the market will become flooded with older conventional trains like Proto-1, which will most likely need to be converted to a command control so that they are still with the times.  This is speculation, though, I could be completely wrong.  I'd like to run the O trains I enjoy in command control, save the block/conventional for HO, since dcc can cost as much as some of the O engines I'm looking at.

D500 posted:

TMCC belongs in everything.

Even Lionel doesn’t have TMCC in everything, but thanks for trolling.