coupler knuckle spring replace #480

Lionel Service Documents MIS-TRUCKS pgs 2&3 have the pictures and process.

thanks for the reply. i’ve done advanced tech stuff for a forty year career but the tiny stuff like this I know can be a pain. I already know it is much wiser to rebuild a knuckle with it off the truck then just install the arm assembly back into its place thanks for the info

I have changed a lot knuckle springs. I find the easiest way is to remove the truck from the car, but do not take the coupler off the truck. The hardest part is getting the old knuckle rivet out. As shown in the Lionel instructions, hold the truck upside down in one hand and use your index finger to hold the rivet in place. Rivet should extend up high enough to hold the spring in place. Put the spring on the rivet using non magnetic tweezers.  There are two different springs.  The older TC spring has two coils and the newer 480 type spring has three coils. The riveting will go better if you can find the older brass rivets, not the newer steel rivets.   I sort them with a magnet. Slide the knuckle into place capturing and compressing the spring. Then push the rivet up into place. I like using the small Brakeman riveter to set the rivet. 

David, thanks for that very useful description to replace Lionel 480 coupler springs. I am eliminating the task of the rivet removal by building a new coupler assembly then install the assembly onto the truck I think this will be easier than installing the spring with the knuckler arm attached to the truck. I am curious as to why its recommended to work the spring into the knuckle upside down?

just to mention too if it matters it is the coupler arm 8855-60 I found a supplier that has this in metal die cast not plastic so i’ll build the arm and knuckle with the metal die cast that should work much better

Look at fig. 4 on the Lionel service material above. The truck is upside down with the knuckle rivet inserted from the bottom. This allows you to retain the spring with just a little of the rivet protruding.  Then the knuckle is slid into place, compressing the spring, before the rivet can be inserted into the knuckle. 

thanks again David that does make it look a bit easier but i’ll still probably work this with the new coupler arm off the truck and clamped into a mini vise something that many hobby stores have the one time cost could be worth saving some time and trouble 

Not meaning to hijack the topic, but I have a prewar switcher that has been converted to postwar electro couplers. The tender coupler will not close. Any easy solution? Thanks.

Tom 

Tom, on the TC couplers that do not close or will not stay closed, the fault is usually with the plunger spring. These can get oveheated in a derailment just like the knuckle spring.  To change the plunger spring you have to remove the knuckle rivet, remove  knuckle and plunger. The plunger spring is behind the plunger.  Sometimes it will not come out and has to be pulled out with tweesers.  When you change the plunge spring it is a good time to also change the knuckle spring. 

David,

  Thanks for the good info.

Tom 

on the subject of couplers the lionel part number 8855-050 or 8855-50 is reported as a metal die cast arm and knuckle it’s just really hard to find. one supplier claims to have an equivalent part and that supplier says it’s the same coupler as the lionel tender 700E I just wonder if it really is and how many changes in design did that tender go thru the die cast 480 knuckle is easy to find the coupler arm is another story anyone know a reputable supplier to confirm what the have?

I would suggest you talk to Jeff Kane, The Train Tender.  He shows the coupler you are asking about on his web site with a picture. 

thanks for that info David i’ll contact Jeff and see what I can find. I wouldn’t mind rebuilding a plastic coupler but really the metal die cast is so much better

thanks again for the info Daved. Jeff did reply to my email and has a small number of the coupler parts I need. I will replace the knuckle springs using a technique I read on another site or maybe this one as follows; using a finishing nail about the same diameter of the knuckle start the nail in hook the spring push the nail in the rest of the way then you can test it for a good fit then using the nail if it’s a good fit use the nail as a guide to set the rivet in place hard part will now be done!

it turns out that Jeff has exactly what i’m looking for and at a good price

David Johnston posted:

Tom, on the TC couplers that do not close or will not stay closed, the fault is usually with the plunger spring. These can get oveheated in a derailment just like the knuckle spring.  To change the plunger spring you have to remove the knuckle rivet, remove  knuckle and plunger. The plunger spring is behind the plunger.  Sometimes it will not come out and has to be pulled out with tweesers.  When you change the plunge spring it is a good time to also change the knuckle spring. 

David,

  I'm not surprised that you turned out to be 100% correct. Thanks. One problem fixed! 

  Is there some blown up drawing that exists to show the actual/correct positioning of the knuckle spring? That part turned out to be a torturous horror show until we got the right positioning. How we did not drop any knuckle springs and pins I don't know! 

Tom