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@Hot Water, would this be the Royal Hudson that I rode behind circa 1980 or so from Alexandria VA to Charlottesville and back on an excursion?  My then-wife and first born rode in a non-A/C coach and the first thing we did upon arrival in Charlottesville wash off our 4 year old, cinder covered daughter in a public fountain.

I ask because I know it was a Royal Hudson and it was my only steam excursion until 611 in 1993.  I was no railfan; didn't bring a camera.

Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

@Pingman posted:

@Hot Water, would this be the Royal Hudson that I rode behind circa 1980 or so from Alexandria VA to Charlottesville and back on an excursion?  My then-wife and first born rode in a non-A/C coach and the first thing we did upon arrival in Charlottesville wash off our 4 year old, cinder covered daughter in a public fountain.

No. The CP "Royal Hudson" that the Southern Rwy leased for excursion service, was #2839. The current Hudson that the CPR owns is not a "Royal Hudson", and is #2816, which is an earlier version.

I ask because I know it was a Royal Hudson and it was my only steam excursion until 611 in 1993.  I was no railfan; didn't bring a camera.

Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

@PH1975 posted:

Rich - My understanding is that the Canadian Pacific Railroad still owns the #2816 but I have no idea who would do the recertification work.  Perhaps some of the Forum readers who reside in Alberta Canada would know that, because I believe CP's headquarters are based in Calgary Alta.

This is what my research has shown as well.  Basically CP still owns it.

@Pingman posted:

@Hot Water, thanks for the fast and illuminating reply.

What distinguishes a "Royal" from a non-Royal Hudson?

In golf, a "Royal" golf club (e.g. Royal From, Royal Bikdale, etc.) is a title bestowed by the King or Queen of England.  Was that done for steam locomotives?

The Royal Hudson is a semi-streamlined locomotive dubbed because one pulled King George VI and Queen Elizabeth's train in 1939 on the CPR.  The CPR got permission from the King (who was somewhat of a rail buff) to designate all locomotives of the class to be called "Royal Hudson's"  The Royal Hudson's also display a facsimile of the crown on the running board flanks.

The non-royal Husdon's are unstreamined locomotives of a different class.

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque

I remember back in the late 1980s the Blue Mountain and Reading ran excursions with a streamlined CP Hudson out of Temple PA. As I recall, it was sidelined after a crack developed in the boiler that flooded the firebox. The engine was subsequently stored for several years in Allentown under the Tilghman St bridge. It has since been removed from that location to parts unknown to me. Could this be one of the 2 engines we have been discussing? There can't be very many CP Hudsons in the US... I have a picture somewhere of my very young son standing on the pilot. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it into the computer.

Chris

LVHR

lehighline - I believe there is (or at least was) a former CP steam engine at Steamtown located in Scranton PA, and I also seem to recall reading a few years ago that another is/was privately-owned and located in the privately-owned 'recently built' roundhouse in mid-Ohio (unfortunately the owner has since passed away).  However, I'm sure there's someone on the Forum much more knowledgeable than I who could clarify the status of the latter.

@lehighline posted:

I remember back in the late 1980s the Blue Mountain and Reading ran excursions with a streamlined CP Hudson out of Temple PA. As I recall, it was sidelined after a crack developed in the boiler that flooded the firebox. The engine was subsequently stored for several years in Allentown under the Tilghman St bridge. It has since been removed from that location to parts unknown to me. Could this be one of the 2 engines we have been discussing? There can't be very many CP Hudsons in the US... I have a picture somewhere of my very young son standing on the pilot. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it into the computer.

Chris

LVHR

That was the 2839 and it’s now in a car museum of all places in California.

@PH1975 posted:

lehighline - I believe there is (or at least was) a former CP steam engine at Steamtown located in Scranton PA, and I also seem to recall reading a few years ago that another is/was privately-owned and located in the privately-owned 'recently built' roundhouse in mid-Ohio (unfortunately the owner has since passed away).  However, I'm sure there's someone on the Forum much more knowledgeable than I who could clarify the status of the latter.

PH1975,

Steamtown has, or at least had back in the day, CP Pacific No. 2317.  All the following are from the Steamtown Grand Opening Weekend, 7/15/1995:

MHM-43141-SCJ82_~scan0262

MHM-43141-648099-R2-22_rcr





Mike

Attachments

Images (4)
  • MHM-43141-SCJ82_~scan0261rcr: Canadian Pacific 4-6-2 No. 2317, Steamtown Grand Opening Weekend, 7-15-1995, Scranton, PA, M.H.M.
  • mceclip0
  • MHM-43141-SCJ82_~scan0262: Canadian Pacific 4-6-2 No. 2317, Local Excursion Loading, Steamtown Grand Opening Weekend, 7-15-1995, Scranton, PA, M.H.M.
  • MHM-43141-648099-R2-22_rcr: Canadian Pacific 4-6-2 No. 2317 Doubleheaded w/ CN 2-8-2 3254, Local Excursion, Steamtown Grand Opening Weekend, 7-15-1995, Scranton, PA, M.H.M.
Last edited by Rich Melvin
@lehighline posted:

I remember back in the late 1980s the Blue Mountain and Reading ran excursions with a streamlined CP Hudson out of Temple PA. As I recall, it was sidelined after a crack developed in the boiler that flooded the firebox. The engine was subsequently stored for several years in Allentown under the Tilghman St bridge. It has since been removed from that location to parts unknown to me. Could this be one of the 2 engines we have been discussing? There can't be very many CP Hudsons in the US... I have a picture somewhere of my very young son standing on the pilot. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it into the computer.

Chris

LVHR

This sounds vaguely similar to the boiler explosion on the Gettysburg RR. #1278 (a CP 4-6-2) suffered a crown sheet failure resulting from neglect. The accident report is an interesting read…



Looks like the Hudson in PA was #2839, which is now in CA.

I don't think so. The Gettysburg explosion had the firebox separating at the mud ring, which is at the bottom edge of the firebox. That blew the fire box upward, and steam into the cab.  The crew was badly scalded. As noted the problem was due to improper boiler maintenance, which allowed the lower end of the sight glass to become plugged. The crew was inexperienced and failed to recognize the problem and the low water level. The CP Hudson was different. As I understand it, the boiler developed a crack in the firebox area and sprayed pressurized water into the box, making it "difficult" to keep the fire going. The boiler was full, and no explosion or other damage occurred.

I'm still searching for my pictures of the 2839.

Chris

LVHR

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...cky-mountain-express

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...t-trips-10-years-ago

Here are some links to photos I posted of past #2816 trips in B.C. Alberta. And my #2816 Empress O scale model on and beside the engine.  The engine has run very well over the years at full speed it looks  and sounds stunning. Look forward to seeing all the photos and videos when it runs south.

The #2816 was last steamed up in late 2020 to pull the CP Holiday train for an on line video of the train. If you do some searching you can find some videos posted of it running for the display.

The engine is stored and maintained along with the vintage Royal Canadian Pacific diesel locomotives and passenger fleet by Canadian Pacific Railway in Calgary. They have an excellent team that maintains the fleet.  The locomotive was first restored, completely rebuilt at the BC Rail Steam shops in North Vancouver where at the time BC Rail still ran the Royal Hudson and #3716 steam engines.

Here is some good history and photos of the engine and first runs; http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprS.../200712/mpress00.htm

@lehighline posted:

I don't think so. The Gettysburg explosion had the firebox separating at the mud ring, which is at the bottom edge of the firebox. That blew the fire box upward, and steam into the cab.  The crew was badly scalded. As noted the problem was due to improper boiler maintenance, which allowed the lower end of the sight glass to become plugged. The crew was inexperienced and failed to recognize the problem and the low water level. The CP Hudson was different. As I understand it, the boiler developed a crack in the firebox area and sprayed pressurized water into the box, making it "difficult" to keep the fire going. The boiler was full, and no explosion or other damage occurred.

I'm still searching for my pictures of the 2839.

Chris

LVHR

Interesting! I am not at all familiar with the 2839, so when I read about a boiler issue on a CP locomotive the Gettysburg engine came to mind… that episode could be an interesting discussion, but it’s not related to this thread…

kj356 - Excellent & interesting photos!

And, having seen it myself on the large screen, similar to kj356 I would encourage everyone to take the time to google the 1:30 minute trailer for the IMAX movie 'Rocky Mountain Express'. It's a beautiful film that is truly breathtaking and, as the advertising says, it is the ultimate steam-powered adventure!

Two problems:

1.  If the STB let the merger go trough.  Beyond CPR control.

2.  To get from Beaumont to Rosenburg, then Victoria to Rostown TX, there is a yellow color problem.  KCS has only traffic rights on the two railroads.  Will the UP let the locomotive run?

Assuming the merger is approved, the CP has people to figure out the logistics.  It's not gonna be "Hey, let's fire up the ol' Empress now and go south..."

Rusty

@lehighline posted:

I remember back in the late 1980s the Blue Mountain and Reading ran excursions with a streamlined CP Hudson out of Temple PA. As I recall, it was sidelined after a crack developed in the boiler that flooded the firebox. The engine was subsequently stored for several years in Allentown under the Tilghman St bridge. It has since been removed from that location to parts unknown to me. Could this be one of the 2 engines we have been discussing? There can't be very many CP Hudsons in the US... I have a picture somewhere of my very young son standing on the pilot. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it into the computer.

Chris

LVHR

Per crew members that posted on Railway Preservation News, the 2839 incident on the BM&R had nothing to do with a boiler crack.  It was human error.  Whoever was firing forgot to turn the stoker off when they pulled into the depot for the celebration.  The auger did what it was supposed to do, and filled the firebox with coal to the point that it was falling out the firebox door. Needless to say, that killed any draft and made it to where the engine wouldn't steam.  It was a very simple--and preventable--problem.  Didn't really hurt the engine.  Just made life miserable for the steam crew.  Of course, the BM&R already had their own engine, and didn't need the Royal Hudson, so it never steamed again.

lehighline - Don't know whether you're already aware of it or not, but in case you aren't, the following (Thanks to BoB "O's" link) is being provided in response to your earlier comment "There can't be very many CP Hudsons in the U.S."

Most 'Royal' Hudsons were scrapped between 1958 and 1966.  However, four (4) Royal Hudsons have been preserved.

- #2850 is now preserved and displayed at Exporail (formerly the Canadian Railway Museum) at Delson/St. Constant, Quebec

- #2858 is preserved and displayed in the Canada Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa, Ontario

- #2860 is preserved and displayed under cover at the West Coast Railway Heritage Park at Squamish, British Columbia

- and as indicated earlier in this Post #2839 is now displayed outside at the Nethercutt Collection and Museum in Sylmar, California

If you would like to see Royal Hudson No. 2839 running in excursion service, CLICK HERE. This is my Hopewell Productions video entitled "Capitol Limited '79." Produced in 1979, the video includes some FAST pacing with the 2839 running on Southern rails.

Southern 2-8-0 No. 722, Royal Hudson No. 2839, Western Maryland F7s, Pennsylvania GG-1 No. 4935 and a short visit with Strasburg 2-10-0 No. 90 and 0-6-0 No. 31 are all in this video. It runs 60 minutes.

Last edited by Rich Melvin
@PH1975 posted:

kj356 - Excellent & interesting photos!

And, having seen it myself on the large screen, similar to kj356 I would encourage everyone to take the time to google the 1:30 minute trailer for the IMAX movie 'Rocky Mountain Express'. It's a beautiful film that is truly breathtaking and, as the advertising says, it is the ultimate steam-powered adventure!

Rocky Mountain Express is great.  Have not seen it in iMax, I have it on BluRay:  Imax: Rocky Mountain Express Widescreen on DeepDiscount.com

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