Crazy Wiring Surprise! (Lionel Postwar 2046W)

I don't see anything particularly unusual about your tender. It seems that most people don't know how to solder.

Repairing trains can be very satisfying. I hope you enjoy this aspect of O guages trains too.

A few of the wires are dry, and cracked, but not in any spot to stop the whistle from working.  As C.W. has pointed out, the soldering could have been done better.  I would get some good wire, and replace anything that looks bad, and at least do a better solder job, using flux, and enough heat. Good luck.

Got it somewhat done C.W.

What got me was that from that red wire until the end was all wrapped up in electrical tape on bare wire. I’m surprised it didn’t cause a short of any kind though I’m sure you’ve seen worse in your repairing experiences.

This was my first time wiring a tender and only second time using a Soldering Iron. The little clip that the wire lay/go into was haft way gone so it’s kind of a bad job. I know we all start somewhere and this is where I start.  Our local repair guy passed away two years ago sadly and I’m the only one in the small train group that does S/O gauge. The repair guys who do HO,OO, N in our group won't touch this kind of stuff, so I'm venturing into all of this one step at a time.

Posting an update showing how it was just bare wire wrapped in tape and my first re-wiring.

The good news is that that the dried wire insulation and grooved rollers tell you the tender is mostly original. The tape and the solder job tell you that someone with little model train repair experience kept it working.

That's what electrical tape is supposed to do -insulate wire and connections

Practice with the search function on the forum and try different terms and such. You can find multiple threads about repairing the postwar whistle tenders.

One of the better wiring surprises that I saw a post about was one where the person purchased an engine that had been gutted and crudely rewired for museum type running (track to dc motor direct with a bridge rectifier) not very pretty - but effective

A few basic bits of advice:

Get some of the specialty wire that is sold for repairing trains. It comes in many varieties. They are all made with very flexible insulation and are made up from many strands of fine wire.

Make certain to keep your soldering tool away from plastic parts. (And don't forget that heat will travel along wire and other metal parts.) I cannot count the number of tenders that I have enountered with melt spots on the body or water scoup.

Find a video online that shows how to solder. There are many. Practice on some scrap Material.

I like to use Solder Wick to remove old, excess solder. You might not believe how much I would use redoing a tender like yours. But I think it is hard, if not next to impossible to do a neat job without removing thevold excess.

Make certain you are using electric solder. 

Be careful with your fingers as most of us that has done soldering at sometime or another have slipped with the soldering iron .

Moonman posted:

The good news is that that the dried wire insulation and grooved rollers tell you the tender is mostly original. The tape and the solder job tell you that someone with little model train repair experience kept it working.

The 2046W never had a NYC Shell like pictured. I believe only the 773W is the only PW Tender to have New York Central, and would have plastic AAR trucks, not the staple end trucks pictured. The shell is likely a post-postwar origins and mated with an early 2046W frame.

I recently came across one of the tenders where someone had taken out the relay, and soldered the wires that go into each end of the relay together. Somehow they soldered the wires together so badly that it didn't constantly blow, and wondered why it didn't work when he pushed the whistle button.

The shell could be MPC or a reproduction.
MPC made replacement shells available in the early 1970's, marked Pennsylvania, New York Central or Lionel Lines (different than postwar font). They are easily identified. The shells had a post and web cast inside the body to support their electronic sounds. Both have to be cut away to fit over the whistle mechanism, but there would certainly be signs of where they were.

By the way, it is highly unlikely that your tender could have caught fire.

I have had many trains pass though my hands for service. I've seen lots of melted insulation (usually from bad soldering jobs), and plenty of melted plastic parts (usually from the use of wrong bulbs or once again bad soldering jobs), but I do not recall seeing any signs of anything catching fire.

I did have one ZW in my shop that had an internal short (caused by a defective whistle switch) that showed signs of significant overheating. This short was not protected by the internal breaker. Reportedly it was smoking. Fortunately it was unplugged before irreversible damage was done. Who knows what would of happened if it was left plugged in!

I see wiring that looks like that all the time. Nothing unusual. I just rewire the whole thank and get her running. If I replace one wire, I replace all the wires.

I took a photo of the inside of the shell body and I believe that you are correct C.W. I think it’s a MPC replacement as there’s no “R” or “Reproduction” stamping you see on modern replacement shells. I took a photo as well of it next to my 665's tender for comparison.

As to what I used for wire was WIRE-Plex 22-gauge- Type SW22 with 60% Tin 40% Lead Electrical Solder. Though when I did the wiring to the base of the motor, there was plenty of solder from the last guy who did this tender. Sad too C.W. is that the guy hit the water scoop but it was only a small nick.

I took a photo of the inside of the shell body and I believe that you are correct C.W. I think it’s a MPC replacement as there’s no “R” or “Reproduction” stamping you see on modern replacement shells. I took a photo as well of it next to my 665's tender for comparison.

I don't see any signs of the web or post that would identify it as one of the MPC shells I described above.

There are an awful lot of reproduction tender shells that carry no "R", "Reproduction" or any other sort of markings. The only way to tell is to be very familiar with the "tells" in the castings. There are subtle ways to tell, such as the shape of the steps, the detail along the bottom edge, whether the lettering is hot stamped or silk screened. (And probably more)
I have a preference for the shells that were made by Bob Geller, I think they were the best quality outside of Lionel factory product. His older shells were marked "Foreign Tire Sales" or "RWG" inside. His later shells are unmarked.

One of the reproduction shells I purchased recently wasn't even painted, just cast in black plastic and lettered.

As to what I used for wire was WIRE-Plex 22-gauge- Type SW22 with 60% Tin 40% Lead Electrical Solder. Though when I did the wiring to the base of the motor, there was plenty of solder from the last guy who did this tender. Sad too C.W. is that the guy hit the water scoop but it was only a small nick.

Same wire I would use.
As I wrote earlier, I prefer to use Solder Wick (desoldering braid) to remove most of the old solder and start fresh. Makes for a nice, neat job.

Thank you for the tips CW as any help is appreciated. It runs good now with the new wiring and the new lube in it. Thank you as well for telling me more about the shell as I knew it was not anywhere close to being the original that came on this unit.  I guess the origins of who made this shell are a mystery but it looks nice behind the 736 as well a decent sound chime whistle!

(I recently came across one of the tenders where someone had taken out the relay, and soldered the wires that go into each end of the relay together. Somehow they soldered the wires together so badly that it didn't constantly blow, and wondered why it didn't work when he pushed the whistle button.)

This sounds like it was a fun project for you CARGUYZM10. I bet it had a huge glob of solder too where they did get it to stick!

In the 80's I purchased the JLC Locomotive and tender.  The loco was the "best smoker" I had ever seen....  a few minutes later I had a 4 inch stack fire!  Far Too Much Realism. 

Got a new JLC loco from the store, but also took the fire damaged one home with me.... I was the stores Lionel repairman.

I've seen lots of dried out wiring which kept working just fine. Some folks would gripe because I replaced the dried out stuff. ZW's and KW's were famous for dried out power cords.

Here is the desoldering braid I use to clean off old solder. It comes in a larger 25 foot spool also.

Larry

I've seen lots of dried out wiring which kept working just fine. Some folks would gripe because I replaced the dried out stuff. ZW's and KW's were famous for dried out power cords.

I guess those folks who wanted the dried out power cords on transformers were either going to change the cords themselves or were just going to put the transformer on a shelf.
I think it would be unwise to use a transformer with a bad (dried out) cord.

 The loco was the "best smoker" I had ever seen....  a few minutes later I had a 4 inch stack fire!  Far Too Much Realism. 

In the early  to mid 1970's Lionel released a bulletin describing a problem with flames coming out of the smokestack on certain engines when they were operated at higher voltages with Postwar transformers. They wrote that the engines were not designed to be run at those voltages, and described the issue as harmless. I forget whether there was a fix. I'd have to find the bulletin.