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In the new 2016 tinplate catalog, on page 39 it says Lionel originally came out with the # 6 locomotive in 1906. But it says Lionel didn't release the companion Pullman cars until 1910. I am just curious, would Lionel have had some other cars for the # 6 loco originally? Perhaps cars that were made to work with the No 5 loco? Or were the Pullman cars in 1910 the first made to work with the No 6?
 
I ask because being one that doesn't know the history of the earlier years, it seems odd anyone would buy a loco when there were no cars to pull behind it. Unless there were other manufacturers making cars that would work with it? Although that being an early offering for 2 1/8" track no others would have worked? 
 
Just curious why it took 4 years to come out with cars to match the loco....seems odd although I fully realize that was very early on and time, money among other things would have been an issue. 
 
They sure make a gorgeous loco not to mention the Pullman cars made to work with them!

 

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The year of 1906 was when Lionel dropped the 2 7/8 scale trains, and started to produce what is now "Standard Gauge", which they quickly trademarked the name.  Both the #5 & #6 were produced in 1906 with matching 'square tenders.  That same year Lionel produced the #18, #19, & #190 passenger cars.  These were produced from 1906 until approx. 1923.  

Referencing Dave McEntarfer's book on Sets, the first Set was made in 1915, with the consist of #6 loco/tender, #18 Pullman, #19, Combine (Pullman & Baggage car), & #190 Observation Car.  The Set was #620, and the only one listed as a Set made in 1915.  There is nothing found with regard to the #1910 car ever being used with the #6 loco, and it didn't appear until 1910, well after the #6 loco was introduced.  Chances are that there were or are other undocumented sets using the #6 with the 18, 19 & 190 consist.

This is from the McEntarfer book plus the TCA Standard of the World books.

Hello all

 Perhaps a bit different story ..Lionel in the 1901-6 window was a very small company , producing electric novelties ...oh yes some trains  ( seasonally ) .  Bruce Greenberg's   most excellent book

https://www.amazon.com/Greenbe...1-1940/dp/0967890551

covers Lionel's standard gauge history with the most up to date research, and out standing original factory documents provided by Project  Lion Roars    publisher of Robert Osteroff's  most excellent detailed history of Lionel "Fun" factories

https://www.amazon.com/Inside-...turing/dp/1933600055

Both these books provide an excellent up to date history of Lionel and it's early days.

There are many prior histories that tell a different tale and no doubt as additional original documents are found the history will be fine tuned for future books. 

Back to the 6 ....  as documented in Bruce Greenberg's book , quoting original Lionel factory sales records ( courtesy Project Lion Roars) ....Lionel sold trolleys # 1 and #2 in November and December of 1906 .

The 1906  Lionel catalog is filled with a full line of steamers , passenger cars and freights, it would take time for the little company to bring all these items to reality . 

The 5 was probably brought to market first in 1907  with the 6 soon to follow . Freight cars were introduced about the same time ...the passenger cars  proved to be much more of a challenge to build ..so the #3 trolley  painted green became the first passenger car ( trolley bodied day coach) begun in 1907 ) .

1909 for Lionel was a year of transition, Harry C Grant ( the designer and engineer of Lionel, for the most part history has him as a silent partner) left the company and production shifted from NYC to New Haven at the helm of Mario Caruso.  

Toy trains were a season thing ... so when we date an item it was produced very  late in the year   just for the Christmas trade.     The 1910 Pullman ... not referred in the catalog    all soldered construction with a huge wheel span  may have been built at the end of 1909 for the 1910 season . 

The classic 18, 19, & 190  as first introduced  1910  had very distinct knobs on the roofs ... first high knobs , then some medium, and finally  low.  Remember Lionel is making  toy trains not collector items   so rules are not written in stone and variations abound.  The knobs are separate brass punchings soldered to the roof , steps are made up of a mesh and several small pieces are soldered together , roof is several pieces all soldered to the car body ...all very labor intensive.   Judging how rare the knobby cars are today ... Lionel may have had a hard time building them . By 1913 bigger better presses where being used to form the roof with much shorter bumps,  and a removable roof not floor, all labor saving steps ..hence production took off    and we have many many 18, 19, & 190 passenger cars post 1913 era .

 Prototype1Here is a copy of the original steamer prototype 1906 /07 ....this was a whole lot more work to build than a trolley

 

Kanagroos 001

Lionel thin rim  6 and 5  1908-9

 

 Kanagroos 004

Note split frame construction .... allowing rear set of wheels to pivot independently from the front , done away  with by 1910 

IMG_8581

1910 catalog ... with 18 , 190 and 29 day coach   all with knobs

 

IMG_8650 [2)

Assorted Kobby cars   1910 -12   ( always looking for more .... encase you have an abundance)

29 day coach

Lionel first passenger car ... the # 3 trolley painted green ...this example is the second version   1908/9   earlier one would have solid ends and steps ... also found with solid 3 rivet  trucks.

Cheers Carey Williams

 

 

 

 

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Images (6)
  • Prototype1
  • Kanagroos 001
  • Kanagroos 004
  • IMG_8581
  • IMG_8650 (2)
  • 29 day coach

Carey, Thank you for the information, i find it fascinating! I actually purchased the book on Lionels Fun Factory, read it cover to cover and found it to be an exceptional book. When I read it I sure didn't do a good job retaining the details. At the time I wss more into late 20's and early 30's ingo. I'll definately be expanding my book collection soon...The one thing I remember thinking while reading the book was how very important Mario Caruso was to Mr. Cowen.

I don't believe l have ever seen one of the "knobby" cars in person, also fascinating....i think my book list is getting longer than my train list :-)

Thanks so much guys...

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