Solved DCS Power input to Channel 1 No power on channel 2 input - Entire layout shows Power

You have something back feeding that circuit. Remove wires one at a time until that circuit goes dead.

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

BobbyD posted:

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

That's what I was kind of thinking.  I will remove the cars and engines.  What is the best way to isolate which one is feeding back?  I wired cut off switches on each output feeding the isolated track sections from the 2 terminal blocks being fed from the TIU channel outputs.

BobbyD posted:

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

That's a good point! Many people don't realize that a car or engine can cause a short. If you park them over the isolated joint, they will bridge it themselves.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

BobbyD posted:

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

That's what I was kind of thinking.  I will remove the cars and engines.  What is the best way to isolate which one is feeding back?  I wired cut off switches on each output feeding the isolated track sections from the 2 terminal blocks being fed from the TIU channel outputs.

Without seeing your wiring diagram, I'd disconnect the wires one at a time at what ever junction point you have and see which one drops the power at the track.

I would also trace them out and mark them at both ends for future reference. Is this a fully sceniced layout? One of the reasons why various colored pairs of wires work well down the line! Let us know how it goes.

BobbyD posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

BobbyD posted:

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

That's what I was kind of thinking.  I will remove the cars and engines.  What is the best way to isolate which one is feeding back?  I wired cut off switches on each output feeding the isolated track sections from the 2 terminal blocks being fed from the TIU channel outputs.

Without seeing your wiring diagram, I'd disconnect the wires one at a time at what ever junction point you have and see which one drops the power at the track.

I would also trace them out and mark them at both ends for future reference. Is this a fully sceniced layout? One of the reasons why various colored pairs of wires work well down the line! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the advise. My wiring is well documented on paper.   The beauty of this layout is that I did the wiring using DSC recommendations.  Each channel goes to it's own terminal block.  Wires are numbered on both ends.  Hot is red and common is black.  I only use black and red for track power.  Switch machines also use a smaller gauge red and black wire and are powered by a dedicated Lionel brick.

Outside rails are common and the inside is used for isolation rails for anti-derail and other detection.

I will try to find the problem this weekend.  If not, I will scan a wiring layout.  My thought is that I would disconnect the TIU input from the channel 2 terminal block and measure voltage at the terminal block  for back feed.  I then can disconnect the output one at a time on channel 1 terminal block until back feed voltage goes away.  Make sense everybody?

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

BobbyD posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

BobbyD posted:

I'm thinking like Joe, somewhere you either have swapped wires between blocks or a car/engine bridging a gap if two individually powered loops.

That's what I was kind of thinking.  I will remove the cars and engines.  What is the best way to isolate which one is feeding back?  I wired cut off switches on each output feeding the isolated track sections from the 2 terminal blocks being fed from the TIU channel outputs.

Without seeing your wiring diagram, I'd disconnect the wires one at a time at what ever junction point you have and see which one drops the power at the track.

I would also trace them out and mark them at both ends for future reference. Is this a fully sceniced layout? One of the reasons why various colored pairs of wires work well down the line! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the advise. My wiring is well documented on paper.   The beauty of this layout is that I did the wiring using DSC recommendations.  Each channel goes to it's own terminal block.  Wires are numbered on both ends.  Hot is red and common is black.  I only use black and red for track power.  Switch machines also use a smaller gauge red and black wire and are powered by a dedicated Lionel brick.

Outside rails are common and the inside is used for isolation rails for anti-derail and other detection.

I will try to find the problem this weekend.  If not, I will scan a wiring layout.  My thought is that I would disconnect the TIU input from the channel 2 terminal block and measure voltage at the terminal block  for back feed.  I then can disconnect the output one at a time on channel 1 terminal block until back feed voltage goes away.  Make sense every

Engineer-Joe posted:

You have something back feeding that circuit. Remove wires one at a time until that circuit goes dead.

I disconnected wires #9, 10, 13 &12 and the problem went away.  Something tells me that I should insulate the center rail somewhere?  Need sage advise here.  Electrical can be a challenge with me.

You should re-connect them one at a time until you find the exact wire causing the issue. It may be more than 1 wire so check them all. You are very close right now as you narrowed it to 4 possibilities. It could be all four if they're not isolated properly.

I would guess at #9 or 13. 

Is wire #8 disconnected? I'm not seeing isolation points clearly? Maybe I am and not realizing how the blocks are defined.

 I'm probably the wrong person to help you right now. I have about a half dozen things shorting out! My outside ground lights just tripped their breaker so I have another short to find!

 Thanks for your input. I suspect the end to end switches need to have something done with the center rail. Perhaps in the middle between. I’m hoping to get the expertise of gunrunnerJohn or someone of his ilk to help give me an answer. Track is ballasted, so I only want to cut once.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

 Thanks for your input. I suspect the end to end switches need to have something done with the center rail. Perhaps in the middle between. I’m hoping to get the expertise of gunrunnerJohn or someone of his ilk to help give me an answer. Track is ballasted, so I only want to cut once.

Solved.  Disconnected 13 and 10 from terminal block.  Put 13 input to share with 16 input wire.  10 went to 11.  Found out that there was no insulator between 10 and 11.  Rule I think I learned was not to apply 2 power inputs within a block from separate power outputs from the terminal block feeding them. 

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

 Thanks for your input. I suspect the end to end switches need to have something done with the center rail. Perhaps in the middle between. I’m hoping to get the expertise of gunrunnerJohn or someone of his ilk to help give me an answer. Track is ballasted, so I only want to cut once.

Solved.  Disconnected 13 and 10 from terminal block.  Put 13 input to share with 16 input wire.  10 went to 11.  Found out that there was no insulator between 10 and 11.  Rule I think I learned was not to apply 2 power inputs within a block from separate power outputs from the terminal block feeding them. 

Glad you got your issue solved. We went with two different colors for the inner and outer power feeds.