DCS WIFI

I don't know about some of the issues you list but I do know that once you pay for an app through the Play Store you own it. So if you get a new phone or android tablet or upgrade as you say, as long as the new device is tied to your android store account it can be loaded to the new device and can be loaded to as many devices as you want as long as they are all tied to that same account. So no, you do not have to buy the app again.

Maybe it's time to get a separate tablet for train control, or put your phone in airplane mode while running trains. It's common sense to manage these distractions and focus on one activity at a time. Imagine calls coming in while you're using a marine navigation app on your phone. You'd probably get smashed on a pile of rocks.

GregR posted:

Maybe it's time to get a separate tablet for train control, or put your phone in airplane mode while running trains.

Airplane mode disables ALL radios, so that wouldn't work well with WiFi.

DCS Wifi is very much still a work in progress.  I come across at least one anomaly every time I use it.   Don't expect a fast fix.  Any update to the APP will come when they have lots of fixes to add to the upgrade.  Remember it cost MTH money to do these upgrades.  So don't worry MTH will get it right sooner or later.

JC, I agree with Gary that you shouldn't expect a fast fix.  The last update for the apps and DCS was released nearly 18 months ago and as pointed out, is not perfect and it will always be a work in progress.

     2.  If you have your app on  android phone and you get a phone call or text you loose control of your trains. 

When I used Android, I did not experience this.  But, wifi setups vary.  Can you tell us if you use the MTH mode or Home mode?  That might make a difference.

For #1 above, Android updates break apps more often the folks realize.  It's up to the app vendor to stay current.  MTH should provide what versions of Android their app works with.

I can't comment on #3 as I've never used TIUs in super mode.

I can say that there is no way you will ever see an update in 3 weeks.  Software development and testing cycles are far longer than that.  Heck, I work for a large software company and my customer is a large global bank.  When they ask for something, I'm lucky if I can get it for them in 6 months.

I am going to expand on what GRJ posted above.  Putting a phone in airplane mode by default disables all radios.  However, newer phones will allow wifi to be active while the phone is in airplane mode.  This was done a few years ago when wifi became available on commercial flights.  To enable it do this:

1. Put the phone in airplane mode
2. Go into the wifi settings and turn wifi on
   1. If your phone complains you can't do this while in airplane mode, you phone doesn't support this.
3. Exit out of wifi setup and then turn airplane mode off
4. Once you see the phone has cellular signal again, turn airplane mode back on.

If your phone works as mine does, the wifi should stay active.

For backup, I use my old MTH remote as my source of truth.  When I buy a new engine, I use the remote to assign the initial engine ID.  Once that is done, I refresh the app.  I know this is not a perfect solution but it works for me.

Tony

Tony, a couple of things:
The latest version of the APP is 3.2.1 and it was released on November 6, 2018, just a little over 4 months ago.
The DCS WiFi app requires Android version 4.03 or newer to operate.

I have relatively new smartphone and it does as you say and allows me to enable airplane mode and enable the WiFi.

I have run into the Disconnect problem stated above and the only way to reconnect was to close and relaunch the app. I later discover that this was due to some of the power saving features on my device that disable WiFi after certain periods of inactivity to save the battery. After disabling these power save features, the app worked flawlessly.

I do believe that Super TIU mode needs to be set per controller and per TIU.  If you have two DCS remotes and two tablets communicating with two or more TIUs, you need to enable the Super mode on each of those DCS Remotes and tablets. Turning it on one device does not enable it globally for all devices that connect to those two or more TIUs.

H1000,

I checked the version of my app before I made my post and it did not show there was an update.  Interesting,..

Now I have to figure out why.

Thanks for the correction and info.

Update:  It appears I goofed.  My app version is 3.2.1 as H1000 pointed out.  And there have been quite a few updates since the one I was referring to ~18 months ago.  I have 2 iPads and I thought I had both set to not automatically download updates.  I was wrong and the iPAD mini I use for my trains was set to auto download so the app was updating and I was not aware.  I hate when that happens...

Tony

I wonder what exact phone and version of android the OP has?

I find it interesting that he has over 100 engines yet no tablet or other device. Maybe he's part of a club?

Engineer-Joe posted:

I wonder what exact phone and version of android the OP has?

I find it interesting that he has over 100 engines yet no tablet or other device. Maybe he's part of a club?

No Im not a member of a club I have been collecting trains for many years with a huge lay out   I have the Latest note 9  with both I pad tablets and Androids plus two mac pro computers.

superwarp1 posted:

DCS Wifi is very much still a work in progress.  I come across at least one anomaly every time I use it.   Don't expect a fast fix.  Any update to the APP will come when they have lots of fixes to add to the upgrade.  Remember it cost MTH money to do these upgrades.  So don't worry MTH will get it right sooner or later.

I understand that Mth can't  come up with a upgrade every week, but if there is a major problem with the app and you invest all this money into trains It should get fixed in a reasonable time line.   Or post problems with the app and what is being done  or don't release the product until your sure it works.  Many products need major upgrade  Tiu has been around for many years with minor upgrades.   Now with wifi and engines doing more Don't you think its time for a  real processor.    This will handle data better They get so hot I placed a fan on top to cool them down I told this to MTH to no avail.

Once you've paid for the DCS app in android or IOS, it is free for the other devices that you own. It says you are charged again but if you check your statement, you won't be. Are your other devices in your name (as the phone)?

What android version is running and what make and model is the phone you originally describe?

jc63 posted:

superwarp1 posted:

DCS Wifi is very much still a work in progress.  I come across at least one anomaly every time I use it.   Don't expect a fast fix.  Any update to the APP will come when they have lots of fixes to add to the upgrade.  Remember it cost MTH money to do these upgrades.  So don't worry MTH will get it right sooner or later.

I understand that Mth can't  come up with a upgrade every week, but if there is a major problem with the app and you invest all this money into trains It should get fixed in a reasonable time line.   Or post problems with the app and what is being done  or don't release the product until your sure it works.  Many products need major upgrade  Tiu has been around for many years with minor upgrades.   Now with wifi and engines doing more Don't you think its time for a  real processor.    This will handle data better They get so hot I placed a fan on top to cool them down I told this to MTH to no avail.

Tiu has been around for many years with minor upgrades.
Yes the TIU has been around for almost 20 years now. The TIU Hardware itself has gone through four major upgrades denoted with the revision stickers on the bottom of the unit. The software (firmware) for the TIU has also gone through 6 major upgrades and quite a few more minor upgrades within those six versions.

Now with wifi and engines doing more Don't you think its time for a  real processor.
The engines don't do anything more now with the APP and WIU that would require a CPU upgrade, the processing power of the current stock for the TIU, WIU and PS3 boards is way more than adequate to do what little we ask of them.

They get so hot I placed a fan on top to cool them down I told this to MTH to no avail.
Keep in mind there are things in the engine that get much hotter (some by design) than the PS3 board. The motors and smoke units are the first things to come to mind. Some of my older PS2 5v engines (notorious for running warm) will get warm but nothing that requires a fan to cool them down.

Many others have successfully run TIU's, WIU's and the app without the issues you have described above. The only difference being the tablet and/or phone that you are using with the APP.  This is where I would put my consideration for the location of your problems. With over 10,000 different makes and models of Android devices, it's impossible for MTH to test them all. The best they can do is ensure that the APP works with the versions of Android that they specify on the Play store.

jc63 posted:

I understand that Mth can't  come up with a upgrade every week, but if there is a major problem with the app and you invest all this money into trains It should get fixed in a reasonable time line.   Or post problems with the app and what is being done  or don't release the product until your sure it works.  Many products need major upgrade  Tiu has been around for many years with minor upgrades.   Now with wifi and engines doing more Don't you think its time for a  real processor.    This will handle data better They get so hot I placed a fan on top to cool them down I told this to MTH to no avail.

It appears you are talking about the TIU getting hot, is that correct?  If so, provide proper ventilation, no fan is really required.  If you're running high power through the variable channels, you will feel some heat down the center of the TIU, that's where all the voltage control FETs are located.  The heat has nothing to do with processing power.

The circled components run pretty warm during normal operation when the variable channels are handling significant power.

I missed that John! I keep hopping posts and mixing them up.

jc63 posted:

DCS WIFI  has bugs   1.  Under android you can not upload or down load files.   To my understanding android changed there os now this affected  the app.   2.  If you have your app on  android phone and you get a phone call or text you loose control of your trains.   3. Last night was running trains have 2 tiu in supper mode the app changed the the tiu to normal mode.   Notified mth they ran test they claim developer has to correct issues this was 3 week ago still no fix.  I have over 100 engines on one phone if I loose the phone I have no backup file.  Also if you get a new phone or upgrade you have to repay for app.  need Help

Hi jc63.  Let me try to reply to your concerns and also, maybe to some of the other comments others made in an effort to clarify things from our (MTH) perspective.  First, direct responses to the issues you raised.

1. With Android's OS ver 8, they broke the import/export functionality of the DCS app.  We only recently became aware of this and verified the problem.  We'll deal with it but, there are reasons we can't just drop everything and fix each issue Android or Apple may create.  I'll get into that separately.
2. I'm sure you're right about the call taking priority of your Android phone's communication path so, Wi-Fi, and therefore train control, may be lost.  This sounds like a function of the Android OS again or your specific brand of device and unfortunately, there may not be much we are able to do about that.  With my iPhone 8, I can receive a call and not lose train control.  As someone mentioned, there are literally hundreds of Android devices and many of them implement the Android OS differently.  This creates variation in behavior across all the different devices and platforms.  All apps have issues as a result on that platform.  We certainly try to keep the app working across as wide of an array as possible but, it can be tough.
3. We would have to check but, the app may not actually be changing your TIUs from super to normal mode.  If you put the TIUs in super mode using a DCS remote, for example, the app may indicate normal mode when you open it but, the TIUs are still most likely in super mode.  It's just the display out of sync with the actual state of the TIU.  The app doesn't poll the TIU to see what mode it's in and update the settings page accordingly.  We could do stuff like this it just takes time and money.  Or, users can just tap super mode on their app and the interface is now synced up until the device(s) are reset.

As others have mentioned, once you purchase any level of the app under a specific account, you never have to pay for it again.  Of course, you can't put it on other devices operating under other accounts for obvious reasons.

Until we can get to fixing the import/export function in the Android app I suggest using our loader program to back up your remote and thus preserve your set up.  You can find the DCS loader here https://mthtrains.com/dcs-software-downloads#.  Install the program on your PC and use it to save your DCS remote data.  This will protect you from losing any data until we can get the Android OS bug squashed.

I hope this info is somewhat helpful.  I'll jump in and create another post with some general comments to the overall thread.  Thanks to all who jumped in and commented!

With all the device and OS variations in Android, airplane mode will certainly behave differently across various combinations.  This is an Android and/or device issue that we really can't do much about.  On an Apple device, you can turn airplane mode on then go into settings and turn Wi-fi back on.  Apple went a step further and after doing so, you can toggle in and out of airplane mode and Wi-Fi remains in whatever state you left it.  I'm guessing it works the same way in many Android devices as well.

Superwarp1 is correct, Wi-Fi DCS will continuously evolve and change.  Not only must we try to adapt to the primary operating systems, we also try to listen to you guys and add or enhance features where possible.  He's also right is saying this can only be practically done in batches.  The expense is high and with every change, much testing is required.  Further still, we can't customize the app for individual user's so, we have to hear a particular request a few time before it makes the list.  Of course, when we become aware of critical bugs, we try to stomp on those right away.  Especially if there is no work around.  

In the case of the import/export issue with ver 8 of Android, this is something they broke, not us.  So, we indeed test the product and try to avoid bugs pre-release but, when the OS is a moving target, that's a little tough.  MTH is a small company.  There are fortune 100 companies with apps that get broken when Apple or Google decide to change things.  If anyone knows how to persuade those two tiny little companies into checking with MTH before doing anything, we would love to hear about it.  ;-}

jc63 posted:

DCS WIFI  has bugs   1.  Under android you can not upload or down load files.   To my understanding android changed there os now this affected  the app.   2.  If you have your app on  android phone and you get a phone call or text you loose control of your trains.   3. Last night was running trains have 2 tiu in supper mode the app changed the the tiu to normal mode.   Notified mth they ran test they claim developer has to correct issues this was 3 week ago still no fix.  I have over 100 engines on one phone if I loose the phone I have no backup file.  Also if you get a new phone or upgrade you have to repay for app.  need Help

This is a cautionary tale about the danger of MTH’s jealously  guarded DCS protocol. In this instance, Android OS8 broke the upload and download functions. This kind of thing happens regularly with every app as operating systems are constantly upgraded. Sometimes features are disabled. Sometimes entire apps stop working altogether. It takes commitment by a developer to stay on top, and keep it going. 

Before long, all those beloved remotes will be worn out and gone, leaving us solely to rely on MTH’s DCS app. Nobody has the DCS protocol except for MTH. There are no other apps. No vibrant ecosystem of developers in a partnership like we have with the Legacy system. No assurance that the DCS system can survive if MTH ceased to operate and support the app. No succession plan. Face it, without MTH’s constant intervention, we would only be a few OS upgrades away from a disabled app, and a bunch of bricked engines. Well, almost bricked. I suppose you can run them like postwar locos: forward-neutral-reverse, etc. 

This closed protocol and reliance on a single app doesn’t inspire the confidence I need to spend a lot of money on MTH engines. That’s why only 4 of my approximately 120 engines are MTH. 

MTH, its time to let go, and have the corporate self-confidence to release your DCS protocol, grow your business and assure the long-term vibrancy of this hobby and community. 

GregR posted:

jc63 posted:

DCS WIFI  has bugs   1.  Under android you can not upload or down load files.   To my understanding android changed there os now this affected  the app.   2.  If you have your app on  android phone and you get a phone call or text you loose control of your trains.   3. Last night was running trains have 2 tiu in supper mode the app changed the the tiu to normal mode.   Notified mth they ran test they claim developer has to correct issues this was 3 week ago still no fix.  I have over 100 engines on one phone if I loose the phone I have no backup file.  Also if you get a new phone or upgrade you have to repay for app.  need Help

This is a cautionary tale about the danger of MTH’s jealously  guarded DCS protocol. In this instance, Android OS8 broke the upload and download functions. This kind of thing happens regularly with every app as operating systems are constantly upgraded. Sometimes features are disabled. Sometimes entire apps stop working altogether. It takes commitment by a developer to stay on top, and keep it going. 

Before long, all those beloved remotes will be worn out and gone, leaving us solely to rely on MTH’s DCS app. Nobody has the DCS protocol except for MTH. There are no other apps. No vibrant ecosystem of developers in a partnership like we have with the Legacy system. No assurance that the DCS system can survive if MTH ceased to operate and support the app. No succession plan. Face it, without MTH’s constant intervention, we would only be a few OS upgrades away from a disabled app, and a bunch of bricked engines. Well, almost bricked. I suppose you can run them like postwar locos: forward-neutral-reverse, etc. 

This closed protocol and reliance on a single app doesn’t inspire the confidence I need to spend a lot of money on MTH engines. That’s why only 4 of my approximately 120 engines are MTH. 

MTH, its time to let go, and have the corporate self-confidence to release your DCS protocol, grow your business and assure the long-term vibrancy of this hobby and community. 

Geezzzz....

Then flip the switch on your MTH engine from DCS to DCC and run it on many of the widely available freely developed DCC systems that are even more of an open standard than what Lionel's (pay for) Licensing program offers.