There are even parents that steer younger kids away from trains wanting them to only be in sports or other things that will make them popular.
Originally Posted by jim sutter:
It all depends on the owner, if a train shop is going to make it or not. If they are willing to work hard and put in long hours they will make it.
Another thing new store owners forget is that they need to keep their overhead low. You ran your great store out of your basement. Goes to show that you don't need a store in a mall or a huge advertising budget to be successful.
quote:You ran your great store out of your basement.
Over the years I've been in a few basement hobby shops.
In the areas in which I've lived, zoning would likely prohibit running a brick and mortar retail business out of your home.
Originally Posted by artfull dodger:
"If one needs a sticker shock, just go price track, espicaly the better stuff from Atlas O and Gargraves. And I need 0-72 for my Weaver PRR M1a to run on. I think she is gonna be a mantle piece for awhile to come." Mikie
Did just that, went to purchase Fastrack in 072 and 082 diameter circles.
16 pieces of 072 curved Fastrack @ 6.99 each is $111.84
32 pieces of 084 curved Fastrack @ $6.50 each is $208
$319.84 for two ovals of track? Needless to say the boss said no way as what, about 40" more of track?, is twice the price? Nearly $350 here with tax for 2 circles?
Can't see many families getting in at that price point. Then add straights and switches?
Originally Posted by Casey Jones2:
Originally Posted by ncng:
What is really tough for the future is that new stock being sold at these high
prices are only giving the dealer a gross profit of 15% +/-, not enough to sustain
a retail operation no matter what the volume, which is also declining.
ncng
Well a 15% return is much better than the banks offering maybe 1%
That 15% figure is way too high if you are talking net return (after all expenses such as taxes, rent, electric, salaries, etc). Having been in retail for most of my working life, and over half of that time in the hobby business, I have seen the MSRP skyrocket, while the dealer discount percentages have plummeted. Twenty years ago, the typical discount structure for model train items was 40% for most items, 33-1/3% to 30% for imported bras locos & cars, and up to 50% for some things like plastics, plus many distributors absorbed the shipping costs to send the goods to the stores. Nowadays, the discounts are seldom better than 30% for what once was 40%, while many locos and rolling stock are 25% or lesS, there are minimum quantities or item counts, and almost no distributors pay for shipping. Some distributors may offer up to 50% on some items like Bachmann, but that is off of their ridiculously inflated list price, so even the dealer net at that rate is still pretty high. All this while taxes, rent, wages, competition from the Internet and other costs have steadily risen, makes it littlest wonder that stores are closing left and right. Forty years ago, our accountant told me that it cost approximately 21% just to put the key in the front door, and I'm sure that figure is conservative by today's standards.
Bill in FtL
"
$319.84 for two ovals of track? Needless to say the boss said no way as what, about 40" more of track?, is twice the price? Nearly $350 here with tax for 2 circles?
Can't see many families getting in at that price point. Then add straights and switches?"
You'd only need these for a sizable layout, yes? Figure a few thousand dollars invested over a few years. Maybe $200 a month? The costs for gas for a big pickup truck for those not in the construction or service industry is more than that at 10-12 miles per gallon. Or the cost of gardening. Price out plants at your local store. Or hobbies such as golf, fantasy football, etc. I'd say that model railroading is competitive if not a bargain compared with some of those. People gamble, play the lottery, etc. Nothing to show for it, certainly not a permanent family hobby. Everyone's mileage is different, but unless you're building a 20 x 20 foot empire and buying high end locos, this isn't expensive compared with the ways most people indulge themselves in our society. I didn't even mention smoking or bourbon 
.
Originally Posted by Landsteiner:
"
$319.84 for two ovals of track? Needless to say the boss said no way as what, about 40" more of track?, is twice the price? Nearly $350 here with tax for 2 circles?
Can't see many families getting in at that price point. Then add straights and switches?"
You'd only need these for a sizable layout, yes? Figure a few thousand dollars invested over a few years. Maybe $200 a month? The costs for gas for a big pickup truck for those not in the construction or service industry is more than that at 10-12 miles per gallon. Or the cost of gardening. Price out plants at your local store. Or hobbies such as golf, fantasy football, etc. I'd say that model railroading is competitive if not a bargain compared with some of those. People gamble, play the lottery, etc. Nothing to show for it, certainly not a permanent family hobby. Everyone's mileage is different, but unless you're building a 20 x 20 foot empire and buying high end locos, this isn't expensive compared with the ways most people indulge themselves in our society. I didn't even mention smoking or bourbon .
They were to be gifts for a family running trains around a Christmas tree. The bigger question than the extremely high entry "fee" is that for about 15% more track length than the 072 circle the 084 circle is almost 100% more expensive at $112 vs $208.
In any case Fastrack seems very high priced if for a few inches more the price doubles. It is Lionel's decision to require 32 084 sections versus 16 072 sections. They could have produced these half 084 pieces for those who want them.
I wonder what the wholesale cost of these China made sections of track really is? At this rate, tubular track with added in homemade ties might make a comeback.
Originally Posted by BobbyD:
went to purchase Fastrack in 072 and 082 diameter circles.
16 pieces of 072 curved Fastrack @ 6.99 each is $111.84
32 pieces of 084 curved Fastrack @ $6.50 each is $208
$319.84 for two ovals of track?
And this, boys and girls, is one of the primary reasons why HO and N are so popular today...
Give it a break. Sticker shock is nothing new with this hobby. Have you actually looked at HO prices lately? There is a tremendous amount of O Gauge stuff on the after market to be had at a great price.
I want a Corvette but have had to settle on a Malibu.
romiller
I'm wondering if the interest/demand for O84 Fastrack is much less than for O72 and the price differential is partly about spreading tooling cost and inventory overhead over much smaller production numbers/sales? The demand for O72 is hence probably much less than for O48, as the latter is only 2/3 the price of O72. Perhaps an alternative plan for the Christmas Tree layout should be to go with O36 and O48 if cost is a consideration. From Charles Ro, an O48 circle is about $60, I believe. Same for O-36?
Originally Posted by romiller49:
Give it a break. Sticker shock is nothing new with this hobby.
Not if you're new to it. I bring this up because a co-worker recently decided he might be wanting into the hobby and knew I modeled in O scale narrow gauge. I steered him to standard gauge for ease of finding stuff but he did all the leg work, came back and said, "Man, you gotta be rich to get into anything bigger than HO." He already knew that in many ways it was apples and oranges (especially when thinking in terms of toy train O-27, general 3-rail or proto48 stuff) but overall, the larger the scale, the more money you'll have to spend.
Have you actually looked at HO prices lately?
Have you? It's way cheaper than almost any comparable O scale item. Not that I think it's better, as I would be in HO otherwise, and I can't believe there's anyone in the hobby who doesn't know that already.
There is a tremendous amount of O Gauge stuff on the after market to be had at a great price.
Comparing used O with new HO is downright silly.
Sorry Pa, I'm not comparing used O with any HO product.
romiller
Originally Posted by p51:
Originally Posted by Balshis:
Not only are fewer people into hobbies, the ones who are are often looked down upon as some sort of childish eccentric. Actually having hobby-related skills brands you as a nerd.
Yeah, as compared to how incredibly cool it used to be... 
I got a good laugh out of this one. I agree the train hobby was always on the nerdy side but I have always felt that when trains were the primary way people traveled, model or toy trains were much more accepted. In the '30s and '40s didn't the railroads themselves set up model train layouts? Trains were popular or at least known by everyone back then because everyone had to use them. Trains were new technology. When new technology came out on a train it was s big deal. Now trains are kind of behind the scenes or in the background for a lot of people. I think that's why the so called normal/popular people who watch all the popular TV shows and do what society says is normal look down us because to them it is weird that we could like something that isn't liked by a large percentage of the population. Basically anything that they or their friends don't do is weird and strange to them.
Originally Posted by p51:
Originally Posted by romiller49:
Give it a break. Sticker shock is nothing new with this hobby.
Not if you're new to it. I bring this up because a co-worker recently decided he might be wanting into the hobby and knew I modeled in O scale narrow gauge. I steered him to standard gauge for ease of finding stuff but he did all the leg work, came back and said, "Man, you gotta be rich to get into anything bigger than HO." He already knew that in many ways it was apples and oranges (especially when thinking in terms of toy train O-27, general 3-rail or proto48 stuff) but overall, the larger the scale, the more money you'll have to spend.
Have you actually looked at HO prices lately?
Have you? It's way cheaper than almost any comparable O scale item. Not that I think it's better, as I would be in HO otherwise, and I can't believe there's anyone in the hobby who doesn't know that already.
There is a tremendous amount of O Gauge stuff on the after market to be had at a great price.
Comparing used O with new HO is downright silly.
I used to think HO was cheaper than O but no longer do. HO RTR has also gone up in price. I remember when the old Athearn blue box rolling stock was so cheap it was like chump change while a O scale boxcar was 4 times or more the price.
True nowadays an O scale boxcar still costs more (I'm not sure of the exact number I will guess about double) than an HO scale boxcar but the HO user needs more for an HO layout.Given the same space there will be more track to put more locomotives and more rolling stock so therefore HO really is only slightly cheaper. If one is a collector their display shelves will hold more HO than a O scale display shelf of equal square footage. The only way that HO is cheaper is for the guy who says I only need a small number of locomotives and X number of rolling stock and I will not buy anymore after that.
Just what percentage of model railroaders have that kind of will power?
I'm going to play with my trains…NOW…!!!
I'm trying to start a fight, just the facts. You can purchase a new Atheran HO Big Boy with DCC and digital sound for $499 dollars or less. Compared to a new Lionel, or 3rd rail O gauge Big Boy you looking at $1800+ dollars. The Athearns have progressed past the "blue box" of yesteryear too. Granted the Lionel Vision is masterpiece but the price is 3x that of the HO model.
I live in the same county as a very well known exclusive model train shop about 30 miles away from my house. They are open 9 to 5 Monday through Saturday they take the Sabbath off so you know they ain't in no mall.
I'm well past retirement age but still work pretty much 6 to 6 Monday through Saturday not counting commute time. To go and see knowledgeable people about my hobby takes a lot from my work time so I mostly shop on line.
Bogie
Stopped in a hobby shop today just to have a look around. I saw a grandmother there with her grandson. The grandson said that he wanted a train. Ok so i stood back and watched. The grandmother checked out the train sets on the wall. Here is what I heard and observed. HO Athearn set, priced at $180.00 too small. Ok next up O gauge Lionel.. They had a Lionel train set that had a Diesel and some freight cars and Bluetooth and Lionchief etc etc... WHOA $429.99 Sticker shock. Then they looked at an MTH Amtrak Genesis passenger set. It was a return and or a display as it was an open box item.... Still $289.99 Then they had several Lionel sets that were using a polar express type of steam locomotive with a few passenger cars but decorated up like Boston Red Sox. The kid did not want "baseball" trains. They were a bit confused by that. SOOOOOO they settled on a Lego freight train. It was $200.00.... So what is my takeaway from all this? The starter set Lionel at $429.99 was twice as much and then some what she was willing to spend. Sure it had all kinds of nice bells and whistles etc but all the kid wanted was a train set that (was more robust than the HO) and he im guessing just wanted to watch trains go round and round and all. Has Lionel priced themselves out of the market. This may be one isolated incident but the general public wanted "X" and they chose "Y" due to price.. Now the kid plays with LEGO but it is a dead end rather. I dont think lego offers just single pieces of rolling stock for sale. Most likely he will play with it, then get bored and then no more trains. Future customer / future modeler / Future train collector ... gone
ENP1976 posted:Has Lionel priced themselves out of the market. This may be one isolated incident but the general public wanted "X" and they chose "Y" due to price.. .Now the kid plays with LEGO but it is a dead end rather...... Most likely he will play with it, then get bored and then no more trains. Future customer / future modeler / Future train collector ... gone
Just to take a broader view: Historically Lionel trains have always been too expensive for the average family. This was true in 1955, and it's still true.
As for Lionel trains, even though he never had a Lionel train as a child, he may develop an interest when he gets older, and get into Lionel trains at that time. I can tell you all about this happening. 
What's most important, I think, is that he have at least some interest in trains as a kid, and that he gets to have a model train of some kind. He starts at some level with model railroading, even a relatively low one, and he can go from there.
I live in a major metropolitan area so we have several hobby shops to choose from. I still favor the one closest to me, Berwyn's Toy Trains.
I buy most of my stuff there as they have good prices and great service. I only buy stuff on line if it's something old/rare they don't normally have. This hobby shop also carries a good selection of excellent to like new postwar Lionel. Not to plug but if you're looking for something give them a call.
Has Lionel priced themselves out of the market.
Yes.
Just to take a broader view: Historically Lionel trains have always been too expensive for the average family. This was true in 1955, and it's still true.
Not true. Lionel made trains at a low price point too. Not everybody could afford a Berkshire, or even a baby hudson. In the mid 1960's I was able to save enough money to buy a set based on a 1062. The first one had a balky reversing mechanism, so I exchanged it. The replacement worked OK and got me started.
Trainworld ( among others) has11 Lionel starter sets available online for under $200.00 . Everything you need. Several for newbies under $100.00. That's affordable even when you add in shipping and a few days waiting its a deal.
Trainworld is a super store and internet site. Highly recommend shopping there.
"Trainworld ( among others) has 11 Lionel starter sets available online for under $200.00 ."
Indeed. Perhaps this hobby store doesn't carry a range of sets and only had this Lionel set as an example of the higher end?
Most Lionel sets are between $200 and $350 retail, with street prices considerably lower. I routinely buy Lionchief sets for from $80-150, usually Thomas or something similar, at Christmas time for donation every year. The margin on these lower priced Lionel sets is obviously pretty high, thus substantial discounts are available at some stores and on-line. These prices today for the least expensive sets are considerably lower than the $19 or $25 Scout sets of the 1950s, corrected for inflation.
To say Lionel has priced themselves out of the market is entirely incorrect, unless you consider a set outrageously priced that is currently the least expensive on the market, and relatively less expensive than much less capable sets from 60 years ago .
ENP1976 posted:Stopped in a hobby shop today just to have a look around. I saw a grandmother there with her grandson. The grandson said that he wanted a train. Ok so i stood back and watched. The grandmother checked out the train sets on the wall. Here is what I heard and observed. HO Athearn set, priced at $180.00 too small. Ok next up O gauge Lionel.. They had a Lionel train set that had a Diesel and some freight cars and Bluetooth and Lionchief etc etc... WHOA $429.99 Sticker shock. Then they looked at an MTH Amtrak Genesis passenger set. It was a return and or a display as it was an open box item.... Still $289.99 Then they had several Lionel sets that were using a polar express type of steam locomotive with a few passenger cars but decorated up like Boston Red Sox. The kid did not want "baseball" trains. They were a bit confused by that. SOOOOOO they settled on a Lego freight train. It was $200.00.... So what is my takeaway from all this? The starter set Lionel at $429.99 was twice as much and then some what she was willing to spend. Sure it had all kinds of nice bells and whistles etc but all the kid wanted was a train set that (was more robust than the HO) and he im guessing just wanted to watch trains go round and round and all. Has Lionel priced themselves out of the market. This may be one isolated incident but the general public wanted "X" and they chose "Y" due to price.. Now the kid plays with LEGO but it is a dead end rather. I dont think lego offers just single pieces of rolling stock for sale. Most likely he will play with it, then get bored and then no more trains. Future customer / future modeler / Future train collector ... gone
So kid chooses a train set he has to assemble himself rather than just unbox and go and this is a problem???? I dont understand this logic. It'll take hours to assemble that lego train (last I checked its around 800 pieces) and that lucky kid will enjoy every minute of it THEN watch it run around every other lego creation he's probably built. This will likely be followed by disassembly of the stock version of the train and reassembly with the thousands of other lego bricks that any kid has.
Legos are a gateway to engineering creativity and imaginative play, I seriously doubt this kid lost much because he didn't choose a lionel set, and I doubt this kid will be lost to the wind. I also bet the lego set runs right out of the box once he gets it together.
Boilermaker1 posted:ENP1976 posted:Stopped in a hobby shop today just to have a look around. I saw a grandmother there with her grandson. The grandson said that he wanted a train. Ok so i stood back and watched. The grandmother checked out the train sets on the wall. Here is what I heard and observed. HO Athearn set, priced at $180.00 too small. Ok next up O gauge Lionel.. They had a Lionel train set that had a Diesel and some freight cars and Bluetooth and Lionchief etc etc... WHOA $429.99 Sticker shock. Then they looked at an MTH Amtrak Genesis passenger set. It was a return and or a display as it was an open box item.... Still $289.99 Then they had several Lionel sets that were using a polar express type of steam locomotive with a few passenger cars but decorated up like Boston Red Sox. The kid did not want "baseball" trains. They were a bit confused by that. SOOOOOO they settled on a Lego freight train. It was $200.00.... So what is my takeaway from all this? The starter set Lionel at $429.99 was twice as much and then some what she was willing to spend. Sure it had all kinds of nice bells and whistles etc but all the kid wanted was a train set that (was more robust than the HO) and he im guessing just wanted to watch trains go round and round and all. Has Lionel priced themselves out of the market. This may be one isolated incident but the general public wanted "X" and they chose "Y" due to price.. Now the kid plays with LEGO but it is a dead end rather. I dont think lego offers just single pieces of rolling stock for sale. Most likely he will play with it, then get bored and then no more trains. Future customer / future modeler / Future train collector ... gone
So kid chooses a train set he has to assemble himself rather than just unbox and go and this is a problem???? I dont understand this logic. It'll take hours to assemble that lego train (last I checked its around 800 pieces) and that lucky kid will enjoy every minute of it THEN watch it run around every other lego creation he's probably built. This will likely be followed by disassembly of the stock version of the train and reassembly with the thousands of other lego bricks that any kid has.
Legos are a gateway to engineering creativity and imaginative play, I seriously doubt this kid lost much because he didn't choose a lionel set, and I doubt this kid will be lost to the wind. I also bet the lego set runs right out of the box once he gets it together.
Today - the "hobby" activity basically amounts to buying new, pre-assembled, models and critiquing or praising the manufacturer.
Wow - such skills!
I'd say the LEGO set is way more hobby-like than buying RTR set, more likely to educate the user - and lead to more honest-to-goodness modeling.
Guys...this is old thread brought back so keep it on topic....don't make this another whining session.
This thread started (2015) as a discussion of the decline of local hobby shops (LHS).
As we move forward, ALL "brick and mortar" businesses are facing a challenge to stay in business. Just like any other business they have to react appropriately to the challenge- or die. The local grocery faced with an Aldi's or WalMart, who then simply RAISES prices to protect margins, is foolish. So is the LHS that just raises prices in the face of online competition.
1. Prices: ANY online store can sell at lower margins- they have less overhead. BUT:
2. While hobbyists might try and save money on "big ticket" items like locomotives, when it's time to build- and they don't have (say) ballast- they are not going to wait 3-5 days for it, or even ONE day paying for a premium "membership" to Amazon Prime.
3. The answer is VALUE - The LHS should price big ticket items like locos at a level where LHS price + sales tax = Online price plus shipping.
The LHS can likely make a full margin (but NEVER above Suggested Retail Price!) on supply-types of items. He has to price to value and make a living on a MIX of discounted big ticket, and full-margin items.
4. The LHS is crucial to the growth of our hobby- it is where new people get interested. Few are going to take up a hobby JUST by seeing it online. We need them.
To do that the LHS has to carry some sets- but sets that have a wide appeal TO NEW buyers. That is what sets are for- to draw in new hobbyists, and not just kids. A store stocking a $500 set is probably foolish- newbies won't spend that much to get in to a hobby. The sets being sold by Lionel and MTH DO cover a wide price range from about $ 200- up, a good price point I think. And the ("command control at a bargain") features like Blue Tooth and hand-held control included in the current sets appeal to newer buyers.
5. US- the more serious hobbyists- it's simple- if WE want those stores around, we have to support them. It's a two-way street. We can;t buy EVERYTHING online or there will be no LHS.
6. Probably the LHS cannot afford to STOCK the big-ticket items. But, if everybody just buys to order, then the distribution system doesn't work. How many Lionel ZW-L's can your LHS sell?? But the distributor must stock even the big-ticket stuff.
Mike Wyatt posted:This thread started (2015) as a discussion of the decline of local hobby shops (LHS).
As we move forward, ALL "brick and mortar" businesses are facing a challenge to stay in business. Just like any other business they have to react appropriately to the challenge- or die. The local grocery faced with an Aldi's or WalMart, who then simply RAISES prices to protect margins, is foolish. So is the LHS that just raises prices in the face of online competition.
1. Prices: ANY online store can sell at lower margins- they have less overhead. BUT:
2. While hobbyists might try and save money on "big ticket" items like locomotives, when it's time to build- and they don't have (say) ballast- they are not going to wait 3-5 days for it, or even ONE day paying for a premium "membership" to Amazon Prime.
3. The answer is VALUE - The LHS should price big ticket items like locos at a level where LHS price + sales tax = Online price plus shipping.
The LHS can likely make a full margin (but NEVER above Suggested Retail Price!) on supply-types of items. He has to price to value and make a living on a MIX of discounted big ticket, and full-margin items.
4. The LHS is crucial to the growth of our hobby- it is where new people get interested. Few are going to take up a hobby JUST by seeing it online. We need them.
To do that the LHS has to carry some sets- but sets that have a wide appeal TO NEW buyers. That is what sets are for- to draw in new hobbyists, and not just kids. A store stocking a $500 set is probably foolish- newbies won't spend that much to get in to a hobby. The sets being sold by Lionel and MTH DO cover a wide price range from about $ 200- up, a good price point I think. And the ("command control at a bargain") features like Blue Tooth and hand-held control included in the current sets appeal to newer buyers.
5. US- the more serious hobbyists- it's simple- if WE want those stores around, we have to support them. It's a two-way street. We can;t buy EVERYTHING online or there will be no LHS.
6. Probably the LHS cannot afford to STOCK the big-ticket items. But, if everybody just buys to order, then the distribution system doesn't work. How many Lionel ZW-L's can your LHS sell?? But the distributor must stock even the big-ticket stuff.
Agree until #4...
People, particularly youths, are incredibly impressionable - and will eat Tide-pods if they see someone else doing it online.
And #5 - We aren't philanthropists...we have no obligation to support an increasingly infeasible business model.
My LHS closed 20 years ago...how much does a 15 year old miss that?
There's nothing wrong with a Lego train set - my son has one, he is 9 and is a voracious Lego builder, more so with the Technics which are more finer parts and require a great amount of focus and patience to complete. He loves to 're-engineer' his legos, and did so with his train set, attempting to make a larger diesel locomotive. He also loves my O gauge trains - more like 'our' trains, which he knows how to turn on the transformers and run them on his own as he pleases. My point is Lego trains are not a dead-end. Way back when, there were Erector sets and those didn't kill the train hobby.
In my area, in the past 15 years I've lost 4 good local shops. I believe one shop closed as they really didn't have a grasp of the market and were positioned too close to a TRU and in a shopping center that at the time didn't have a good retail mix. The remaining three the owners just wanted to retire and it was probably hard to find someone who wanted to assume the risk of running a retail store. The one shop that remains was where my wife purchased a Lionel set for me as a gift and I have always used them for service and add-ons, but they are a bit of a drive.
With regard to hobby shops, train stores etc., existing shops need to take stock of who they cater to - or are about to cater to. With the upcoming demise of Toys R Us, this is an opportunity for these shops to step up, shift their focus a little, but still keep their core hobby/train/RC business. I looked at the Berwyn's site - looks like they carry a wide selection of toys, but still have a large train and hobby business. In todays retail climate, you can't be a single-segment or single product line hobby shop, you need to diversify your product offerings, get on the internet and social media to market/advertise your business. And you have to market it big time and consistently if you want the traffic in your store and on your site. The local toy shop by me (they have 4 locations) markets themselves on Facebook in the local 'group', sponsors local events or created a presence for himself at other town events. The result is a customer base that relies on him for last-minute gifts, but also those hard-to-find or popular items you can't get anywhere else.
There are ways to beat Amazon and the big box stores - it's with accessibility to product, service, and price. People won't mind paying for something when they know that something can be obtained quickly, fair and reasonably and you stand behind the product you sell.
Our local Hobby Town had to relocate and in the process the store is a tad smaller, but the train dept got way better in what they stock(it was already was really good inventory wise) and they cater to all the other popular hobbies with kids all the way down to almost toddler age children. Very nice and knowledgeable staff also help. We are blessed locally to have Mr Muffins Trains, Train Central, Zionsville Train Depot all in the central part of Indiana, 2 shops here in Kokomo, Tolin's KnK and The Train Exchange. The ones we have lost in the Indianapolis area were mostly to owners retiring or deciding to go a different way in life. With so many younger familys having both parents working, or one parent working more than one job, very little time is left to go shopping at a brick and morter store. But they can squeeze in time to shop via thier smart phone and order online. Seems to me that most stores that are left and doing well not only have a physical store of some sort, but a nice website/online E store and Facebook page. Like it or not, the online/social media side of the hobby is here to stay. Just as the hobby has evolved from the prewar days, to todays electronics and sound, the shops selling them must evolve to serve the buyers and how they are buying. Menard's is probably the brightest light in an otherwise dim looking future for most brick and morter shops. They have returned to the business model of an old school hardware store having toy trains during the holidays, and at pretty good prices. And the selection gets better each year, atleast locally. I can get pretty much anything I need, from milk or a frozen pizza, to normal hardware items to toy trains, all at one store. I do wish ours would keep the trains out year round, but I couldn't find anything this past week when I stopped in to get a tool. Mike the Aspie
Hobby shops are in the same dilemma as most specialty stores vs the internet, but before the internet it was WATS lines, those free 800 numbers. 'Hobby Shops' advertising in the magazines could be nothing more than a storage building with inventory, and a guy with a phone. He would buy a lot of whatever, the wholesaler or manufacturer would cut him a deal, at a price not offered to a real storefront. Some wholesalers and manufacturing companies started offering better discounts to real stores, seeing their demise impacting their existence. People would go the a shop, look at, fondle an item, then go home and call the 800 number to save money. Of course the internet has changed all of that, you can get a lot of upclose views, but you still can't see it in person and pick it up.
That OGR Fellow is one of the folks that own and maintain this forum. Why would we want them to routinely remove older posts that contain useful information, findable using the search function?
This thread was resurrected by the original poster who had some new observations to share.
I don't see a problem, in either regard.
I'll throw my opinion in on this one. For me it's the internet, you can't beat the selection offered online. Yes, there is a local train store here in Northwest, Florida, but their prices are way too high, and the selection is pitiful. If you search things out good prices can be found. I buy a lot of things from right here on this forum. Every time I go to Atlanta I visit Legacy Station and if I lived near there I would shop there, but there is nothing even close to Legacy Station where I live.
Let's not forget the Lego graduated trestle. Anyhow I find it interesting that I can buy Fastrack at my LHS cheaper than many online places,many but not all. I try and give them business when I can. Oldmike
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That OGR Fellow is one of the folks that own and maintain this forum. Why would we want them to routinely remove older posts that contain useful information, findable using the search function?
I think locking threads over a certain age merits some consideration.
Roving Sign posted:Mike Wyatt posted:....
4. The LHS is crucial to the growth of our hobby- it is where new people get interested. Few are going to take up a hobby JUST by seeing it online. We need them.
To do that the LHS has to carry some sets- but sets that have a wide appeal TO NEW buyers. That is what sets are for- to draw in new hobbyists, and not just kids. A store stocking a $500 set is probably foolish- newbies won't spend that much to get in to a hobby. The sets being sold by Lionel and MTH DO cover a wide price range from about $ 200- up, a good price point I think. And the ("command control at a bargain") features like Blue Tooth and hand-held control included in the current sets appeal to newer buyers.
5. US- the more serious hobbyists- it's simple- if WE want those stores around, we have to support them. It's a two-way street. We can;t buy EVERYTHING online or there will be no LHS.
6. Probably the LHS cannot afford to STOCK the big-ticket items. But, if everybody just buys to order, then the distribution system doesn't work. How many Lionel ZW-L's can your LHS sell?? But the distributor must stock even the big-ticket stuff.
Agree until #4...
People, particularly youths, are incredibly impressionable - and will eat Tide-pods if they see someone else doing it online.
And #5 - We aren't philanthropists...we have no obligation to support an increasingly infeasible business model.
My LHS closed 20 years ago...how much does a 15 year old miss that?
Our LHS (Toy N Hobby HQ, Geneva OH) carries quite a few Lionel sets in the Nov.- Dec. time period, and one or two the rest of the year. He also stocks quite a few Lionel and MTH cars, and a good inventory of track, even one or two switches.
His prices for the item plus sales tax are essentially equal to the price of an online vendor charging shipping. He can get anything that is available in around three- four days, and works hard to do that for his customers.
When I wanted a Lionel ZW-L- he called me back to check the price, and asked: "Is that about right based on what's online??" And it was- somewhere in the middle. Lionel List is $ 899.95 ; e-Bay "Buy it Now" ranged from $ 760.00 - $ 899.95 incl. shipping. I paid $ 829.25 incl. tax/ no shipping; ordered on Friday- picked it up on Wednesday. He turned his inventory in three hours. I think we BOTH were good w/ the transaction.
There are those who would say that I paid too much. But I LIKE having him in business.
Over the last 10 or so years, one of the great ways to drive traffic toward MTH dealers/Local Hobby Shops was the MTH Product Locator "Show All" button - when it was listed - next to each LHS named in the MTH Dealer Locator. You could search for authorized dealers within 100 miles and then be able to search each dealers inventory, if they maintained it. One could even look up Midwest and West Coast store inventories to mail order from. But after MTH revised their website a couple of years ago, the Product Locator "Show All" links feature disappeared from the MTH Dealer Locator output. It was a shame this happened, because you could randomly search a nearby dealer's inventory and perhaps find something you didn't know about or never saw before. You could see when new product was in stock too. My friends and I planned many weekend visits to LHS dealers that way. I know that feature drove probably 90% of my spontaneous purchases because I knew where to go. Since MTH removed it, not some much anymore. In my opinion, MTH could help the LHS by restoring each dealer's Product Inventory link to the Dealer Locator pages. I certainly was able to visit or call many dealers and establish relationships with them as a result. Funny, you can't even check MTH's inventory because the link is even off their Dealer Locator listing. If you knew what the manufacturer had, you could ask your LHS to order something for you.
You can still get to a dealer's MTH inventory list, but it is nowhere as efficient as it was. Now, you only find it randomly by looking up a target MTH product and then checking the Find It Locally tab.
But if a dealer does not have that target item, they aren't listed and you are out of luck finding the dealer's Product Inventory until you randomly happen to look up a product that they do have. Then you get a "Show" link to get to the Dealer page where the "Show All" inventory button is. Nowhere as efficient as being able to look up a dealer and then check their "Show All" inventory for product.
LHS help themselves by having websites for sure. But manufacturers can make it easy for the dealers' stock to be known as well. That would help drive visiting traffic. Wins all around then.
Best regards,
Bryan
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RidgeRunner posted:Over the last 10 or so years, one of the great ways to drive traffic toward MTH dealers/Local Hobby Shops was the MTH Product Locator "Show All" button - when it was listed - next to each LHS named in the MTH Dealer Locator. You could search for authorized dealers within 100 miles and then be able to search each dealers inventory, if they maintained it. One could even look up Midwest and West Coast store inventories to mail order from. But after MTH revised their website a couple of years ago, the Product Locator "Show All" links feature disappeared from the MTH Dealer Locator output. It was a shame this happened, because you could randomly search a nearby dealer's inventory and perhaps find something you didn't know about or never saw before. You could see when new product was in stock too. My friends and I planned many weekend visits to LHS dealers that way. I know that feature drove probably 90% of my spontaneous purchases because I knew where to go. Since MTH removed it, not some much anymore. In my opinion, MTH could help the LHS by restoring each dealer's Product Inventory link to the Dealer Locator pages. I certainly was able to visit or call many dealers and establish relationships with them as a result. Funny, you can't even check MTH's inventory because the link is even off their Dealer Locator listing. If you knew what the manufacturer had, you could ask your LHS to order something for you.
You can still get to a dealer's MTH inventory list, but it is nowhere as efficient as it was. Now, you only find it randomly by looking up a target MTH product and then checking the Find It Locally tab.
But if a dealer does not have that target item, they aren't listed and you are out of luck finding the dealer's Product Inventory until you randomly happen to look up a product that they do have. Then you get a "Show" link to get to the Dealer page where the "Show All" inventory button is. Nowhere as efficient as being able to look up a dealer and then check their "Show All" inventory for product.
LHS help themselves by having websites for sure. But manufacturers can make it easy for the dealers' stock to be known as well. That would help drive visiting traffic. Wins all around then.
Best regards,
Bryan
This afternoon, Andy Edleman, MTH VP/Marketing was kind enough to reply to me. Having his agreement, I'm sharing his insight on this particular issue.
"Thanks for your note regarding the missing Show All feature on the M.T.H. Product Locator system. We are certainly aware of the Show All function's value for users and appreciate your personal input regarding its omission.
The issue regarding its missing presence isn't because we eliminated it, but rather because we're having trouble keeping it functional. In fact, it was working correctly just a week or two ago.
Unfortunately the Product Locator functionality is rather old and no longer supported by its developer. As a result, we are working with other developers to return its full functionality to the M.T.H. website as quickly as possible.
In the meantime, we appreciate your patience awaiting its return and want to thank you again for your continued support of M.T.H. Electric Trains."
Bryan
C W Burfle posted:That OGR Fellow is one of the folks that own and maintain this forum. Why would we want them to routinely remove older posts that contain useful information, findable using the search function?
I think locking threads over a certain age merits some consideration.
Why is that?
