Deluxe Polar Express

Not interested.  The PE is a seasonal set for the most part and to pay for an expensive set with cars and an engine is not of interest.

Now if they were to package a Legacy Nickle Plate Berkshire with nice heavyweight cars I would be real ready to pay a premium price for.

Based on my own assumptions - if Lionel can't see that there are more folks who want a new Berk than there are PE fans, it wouldn't matter.  Improvements to pass cars could be done at anytime.

Brendan

Lionel would probably look at the ratio of O Gauge RTR sets for the PE vs sales numbers for legacy PE Berks and Scale heavyweights.  That ratio number then applied to our little S market and.....we fall into the likely not happening arena.  

Ben

I have no interest in a high end PE engine or set. I said earlier I would buy at least one of any new Legacy steam engine Lionel made. The PE would probably be the exception to that statement.

As far as high end passenger cars are concerned 3rd rail recently began taking orders for S gauge scale length 80' cars at $1200 for a 6 car set. I have a set on order. They will likely need 27"R track based on the 80' AM sleeper radius requirement. My guess is at $100 for a high quality Lionel Flyer passenger car they would sell acceptably well if a good variety of road names are available.

I feel we all need to be prepared to pay at least the O gauge prices if we want much new product in S gauge from Lionel. The new Legacy O gauge J3a Hudson is $1,400. It has a few features not used in S gauge so call it $1,300 retail for a new S gauge Legacy Hudson. I would pay it if Lionel would make it.

I agree with Mark on this one.  I also would not dump my present PE for a more DeLuxe one.  As far as more detailed passenger cars, those too would be a non-starter for Lionel.  Too much modification would be needed.  Besides, a few years ago American Models re-released their full length Pullman cars.  Palace Car company also offers an interior upgrade for them.  Here’s what mine look like.  I also came up with a way to adapt American Models’ Budd interiors to their heavyweight cars with only three cuts to the Budd interior. 

The café car's interior (last photo) was freelanced based on the Palace Car interiors.  When illuminated in a dark room, it look fine.

I agree that a deluxe Polar Express would be a no go, as it is a specialty product, that those of us who purchased it love, but not enough to upgrade.  If I wanted to upgrade, I would change Flyerchief to DCC - and that's not going to happen.

First off.  Jerry love the interiors.

Second, I agree if we want better trains we have to be prepared to pay for near O gauge pricing

Third,  the point behind the Deluxe Polar Express is that Lionel is now getting ready to do another run of S scale Polar express.  So sales are strong.  Even though several of those on this forum have it, there are others who do not.  Lionel may be more inclined to do a Deluxe Polar Express than a Legacy Berkshire  Consider the fact that if they did the Polar Express that may move them to do other Legacy Berkshire runs.  The same with Passenger car interiors. 

Imagine if  Lionel did Thomas the Tank Engine in "S" gauge.  If they would make an S scale Thomas maybe many of those on this forum may not buy one but many more would.  It would bring more people to "S" which then Lionel would provide more focus and thus more funding.  I could see Fastrack re-railers and level crossings being added to the line.  

Finally, It was interesting that people in this thread said no to the Deluxe set which is the exact opposite response I received when speaking face to face with some S friends.

--Rocco--

The thing to remember is it was't the lack of orders that killed the Legacy Berk , it was the cost of tooling.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

The thing to remember is it was't the lack of orders that killed the Legacy Berk , it was the cost of tooling.

Rusty

Well, with a bit of a twist. It was the resulting very low quality and suitability of the tooling obtained by going with too low a bidder. We and Lionel would have been better off with a more realistic (and higher) catalog price based upon costs associated with a more dependable source. When something seems too good to be true .... 

Bob

I still wish to have a Legacy Berk, including one with enhanced but less ambitious tooling changes. If a Legacy PE Berk was added to expand the range of choices to obtain a more economically viable production run, then fine.

My repeated previous discussions with Ryan at York tend to indicate that that they (Lionel) would not be up for a substantial modification of the tooling and additional parts to obtain a line of upgraded heavyweights with interiors. Heck, it is difficult to get Lionel to catalog and do runs of new heavyweights of the current design, even with generalized Pullman decoration. The notion of interiors for the heavyweights has been brought with various Lionel product teams 'forever'. The cost-driven decision to go with the design and tooling of the heavies was decided back during the Wagner (TRW)/Kawala product development regime ... a discussion I vividly recall from about 13 years ago.  As desirable as it might be (and, I would be delighted to be proven wrong), I would not hold out much hope for any extensive design changes for the heavies.

Bob

I think this is a DEAD subject.  When I talked to Ryan Kunkle about the Legacy Berks for the S Gaugian Magazine when they were cancelled, he shut the door on further consideration of a future Legacy Berk.  He said that Lionel has had no good results from reissuing a product that was cancelled for any reason.  He said that they would move on to other Flyer projects.

I believe the market for Legacy Berks was already flooded with the FlyerChief units and there weren't enough people left who wanted to upgrade from the FlyerChief or Legacy only buyers. 

Time to work with Lionel to get them to issue a new steam engine in Legacy first.  Then if they want to offer it as FlyerChief second.     

Rocco posted:

Imagine if  Lionel did Thomas the Tank Engine in "S" gauge.  If they would make an S scale Thomas maybe many of those on this forum may not buy one but many more would.  It would bring more people to "S" which then Lionel would provide more focus and thus more funding.  I could see Fastrack re-railers and level crossings being added to the line.  

Finally, It was interesting that people in this thread said no to the Deluxe set which is the exact opposite response I received when speaking face to face with some S friends.

--Rocco--

 

Rocco,

In no way was I trying to disparage anybody from getting a more deluxe PE.  It's just not what I'd want.  An upgrade to the heavyweights would be very nice, but Bob Bubeck's comments on what Lionel thinks about that make sense, at least in Lionel's terms. 

Fastrack re-railers and crossings make more sense for them to do, however.  And as far as a Thomas set, cramming the electronics the people want into such a small shell would be a (forgive me) "monumental" task.  Lionel's circuit boars are LARGE in comparison to a DDC decoder.  I agree that a Thomas would probably bring some folks into S, but then he's already available in O and HO, so that market may already be saturated.  I scratch built a Thomas train a few years ago.  It's based on their O gauge train scaled down to S proportions and running straight DC for simplicity.  Here it is last year on my club's display layout.  It was also written up in one of our S friendly magazines a while ago:

Thomas will be appearing at the upcoming Spree or Convention if the layout is there.

Rocco posted:

Finally, It was interesting that people in this thread said no to the Deluxe set which is the exact opposite response I received when speaking face to face with some S friends.

--Rocco--

 

 

Well, it could be the forum folks have different priorities than your friend's friends.

That said, I personall have no interest in a Polar Express in any way shape or form (or a Thomas set,) even if they were to make full scale with code 110 flanges, Tsunami DCC and Kadee couplers. 

It's not that I don't think the Polar Express is a bad idea, it's just not my "thing."  As an accessory for Christmas in general, the Polar Express is just fine.

I'm constantly amazed at how the 3-rail guys gobble up anything lettered Polar Express.  You could probably take an 11"  2x4, put trucks on it and paint it up Polar Express and they'd buy it... 

It'll be interesting to see how many pony up for the $1300 Bi-Polar electric locomotive.  I'm actually surprised the licensing deal lets Lionel get away with some of their offerings, but I guess WB likes the $$$ they receive.

Rusty

I'd like to see where the sales numbers on that bipolar end up.  I cannot believe anyone would plunk down that kind of scratch for a fantasy loco of a fantasy scheme.  Fantasy squared.  I do like whimsical cars, myself; $1200 could buy a lot of them.  

Brendan

Roundhouse Bill posted:

I think this is a DEAD subject.  When I talked to Ryan Kunkle about the Legacy Berks for the S Gaugian Magazine when they were cancelled, he shut the door on further consideration of a future Legacy Berk. <snip>

In the end, you may be correct, however Ryan in his comments to me during last York, left the door open for consideration a few years down the road.

On a personal level, Lionel needs to come up with something new and compelling.  There is nothing in the Flyer section of the latest catalog that prompts me to part with my money.  Offering FlyerChief engines when LionChief 2.0 (controllable with TMCC Cab-1 and Legacy) is in the wings is a puzzlement. I have no desire to add yet another Gilbert-derived GP or Baldwin to my roster and I "did" the modern diesels on past opportunities. Frankly, my Y3 is a significantly better piece than anything offered this time around and shows what they could do again if they would only put their minds (and capital) to it.  Regrettably, I guess in the meantime, Lionel is DEAD to me (so to speak) until things change. 

Respectfully,

Bob

Rusty Traque posted:

Rocco posted:

Finally, It was interesting that people in this thread said no to the Deluxe set which is the exact opposite response I received when speaking face to face with some S friends.

--Rocco--

 

 

Well, it could be the forum folks have different priorities than your friend's friends.

That said, I personall have no interest in a Polar Express in any way shape or form (or a Thomas set,) even if they were to make full scale with code 110 flanges, Tsunami DCC and Kadee couplers. 

It's not that I don't think the Polar Express is a bad idea, it's just not my "thing."  As an accessory for Christmas in general, the Polar Express is just fine.

I'm constantly amazed at how the 3-rail guys gobble up anything lettered Polar Express.  You could probably take an 11"  2x4, put trucks on it and paint it up Polar Express and they'd buy it... 

It'll be interesting to see how many pony up for the $1300 Bi-Polar electric locomotive.  I'm actually surprised the licensing deal lets Lionel get away with some of their offerings, but I guess WB likes the $$$ they receive.

Rusty

Do you know where I can get one of these before they are all sold out?

I must confess, if it is okay to come out of the closet here on the forum, I'm one of those Polar Express junkies. I probably should see someone about liking a fantasy theme more than say BNSF for my toy train layout. Then again how do I explain the Batmobile parked in front of my Snow Village train depot with flowering trees alongside it dotting the winter landscape?

As to buying a different version, deluxe version, as crazy as I am about P.E., I don't want to re-purchase a better version of what I already have. Sounds a lot like the iPhone - just keep upgrading. I have all the original O cars and didn't bite on new version with snow tops. I probably would go for the Bi-Polar - love Legacy engines -  but my layout isn't built for anything with needs above O36 radius. Of course, this is all off topic as the question relates to S gauge, but I was intrigued by the 2x4.

As a group, I can't say that I disagree with all your comments except for the Thomas the Tank Engine.  I have no doubt that a 2 rail scale Thomas would be a huge seller in S and bring new people to our gauge.

--Rocco--

I have to disagree. Thomas has flooded the market in G,HO and O.  There's really nothing that an S version would bring to the table. 

As far as kids are concerned, all they see is Thomas, not what gauge it is.

Rusty

banjoflyer posted:

Mooner posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

I'm constantly amazed at how the 3-rail guys gobble up anything lettered Polar Express.  You could probably take an 11"  2x4, put trucks on it and paint it up Polar Express and they'd buy it... 

 

Do you know where I can get one of these before they are all sold out?

 

You better hurry...these cars are so hot they are on fire! Lionel is felling entire forests to keep up with demand.

LIONEL POLAR EXPRESS 2 X 4 X 11...$589.99

Mark

OMG, we apparently will have two runs of 2X4 Polar Expresses, as the first run has the words "Polar Express," above the windows like the first Flyer run. Later they will reissue with the wording below the window like in the book and movie.