Here I am working on a terrain revision, in order to create a continuous elevated terrain on the lower left.  The idea is to run the hidden staging tracks beneath this elevated terrain over to the right to connect with the level mainline, so the staging tracks are double-ended.

I had to create a waterfall so that the river is elevated over the staging as well, and then drops over the fall to the main surface level.  This area needs a bit more refinement.

O72-O81V4b

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

Here is the exposed double-ended staging track.  Only one #5 turnout is hidden, in the upper left, but is reachable from the access area.  The minimum diameter is O81.

O72-O81V4c-exposed

And here with the elevated terrain and tracks.

O72-O81V4c

Pretty hard to reach a derailment in the staging track area - no fix for that at present.  But with #5 turnouts and O81 minimum, derailments SHOULD be rare 😉.   Better run dead slow on entering and exiting to reduce the risk.

Alternatively, for those who are risk-averse, the staging tracks could be the (original) single-ended, and ending at the maximum reach beneath the elevated scenery, from the upper-left access area.

There could be an opening in the level foundation in the lower-left corner, to allow a person beneath the layout, to reach the hidden staging tracks.  Not fun, but might work out, perhaps better than nothing.

Perhaps a board with indicator lights, to show how far a train has advanced in each staging track, will help.

Perhaps a grabber stationed at each access area will help to extend the reach:

grabber

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

I thought that the double-ended hidden staging idea justified some more design time.   I decided to "daylight" the underneath access area in the lower left, to enable better access and increase the comfort level with the hidden staging.  

O72-O81V4d-revealed

O72-O81V4d

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

More fine-tuning, I wanted more separation on the left, between the highline and the lower-main with the power plant.

O72-O81V4e

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This idea adds a connection on a grade (blue) to replace the steel bridge reverse connection which allows the out and back from the yard route, then heading back into the yard.   This connection is at a 4% grade, at the limit of acceptability, but the good news is that the grade can be taken DOWNHILL to complete the out and back route.

The revised steel bridge connecting the turn-back curves is now optional, not needed for the out and back route.  But it allows trains to reverse direction the other way.   So with this option, the layout now has reverse connections in both directions, to turn trains.

O72-O81V4f

The max grade in the turn-back loops is 2.6%.

O72-O81V4f-revealed

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

Here I have added the hidden staging to the O54/O63 version of the layout:

Sectional6b-revealed

Hard to reach any of the hidden staging tracks.  The turnouts are in the clear, however.

Sectional6a

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

As reach and access are good, perhaps this idea will work to get at the hidden staging tracks:  three scenery and track "topper" modules that lift out exposing the hidden staging.   These "toppers" must fit precisely on top of the hidden staging & elevated scenery.  Electrical connections are contacts beneath the toppers, that make contact when the topper is set in place.  For emergency access, rarely used (hopefully).

Sectional6b

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I have been wanting to work in a station, so I squeezed-in Lionel's Suburban Station.   Servicing Lionel's Animated Freight Station, the Barrel Loader, and the warehouse is a bit of a switching puzzle - taking some time and moves to spot cars.   Other details added.

Sectional6d

I gave up the short yard lead past the town structures, as I realized that working the arrival/departure track and the longer spurs would require fouling the mainline past the curved turnout anyway.   So it was of limited value as a yard lead.   If the freight station is clear, that spur can still be used as a lead for short moves, so that function is not entirely lost.

I tried to show with pavement, where passengers would wait for trains.   Unfortunately, long switch moves in the yard that need to foul the main will also block this access at times.   Acceptable, except a safety issue with passengers milling around waiting for a train, so a brakeman will have to descend and clear waiting passengers - I guess a reasonable operation.

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

Ken....I am really liking this design.....I am getting a 20x30 attic room in a year and have designed a similar sized layout for 072/081. My plan is all one 1 level.....my problem is that I can only think in 2 dimensions. I like the over/under aspect to bring more interest to the space. However, I am blanking on how I would do the curved trestles over the yard. Can you tell me what you envision there?

Peter

Hi Peter, sorry for the delayed reply.  The bridges over the yard are made from sectional track sections.  I think that a variety of wood-style trestle bents would work, perhaps even some commercially available could be fitted.   Maybe one trestle bent between each pair of tracks.

We have seen other folks build supports using dowels painted to look like concrete.  A custom girder bridge could be done, wrapping the edges of the track with a bendable material, then detailing and painted to look like steel.

Some ideas anyway.  -Ken

Last edited by Ken-Oscale

No problem and thank you so much, Ken........I have RRtrack (I am not very good using it) and have copied the basic design. I re-angled the overpass over the yard so I could commission someone like Jim of BridgeBoss to make me a double track truss bridge.

Because I have a door on the upper left and the lower right, I reversed the design. I plan to have the layout with access on all sides. I will be using the walls for shelves to display my collection.

I am using Ross track and switches.

My scenery will be urban/city/industrial. On the upper left wing of the layout, I have a lead and left room for a possible transfer table.

I have at least another year before I have the room......this is 2nd design I have looked at for the space. I am trying yo be very measured and look at all possibilities.

8B3DD36E-DE37-4D19-8F94-0E3A108DB6F1

Ken, I love your work......you are a master at layout planning.  What excites me about this design is that there is an over/under aspect....I would never be able to think of this on my own....I only seem to be able to think in 2 dimensions. Thank you for all the neat plans you post. I am an avid reader of your posts and plans.

My next step is to add reverse loops. I can see one with a removable bridge across the access gap. I can see another starting in the bottom part of the layout, coming off the loop, crossing under the embankment and rising to the inner loop on the top right.

Thanks again,

Peter

 

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Wow!  Very cool Peter!   Thanks for your praise, but even better is to see that you are working on your own interpretation of the idea!  Very interesting and exciting to see!   

Thanks for sharing your design, and please keep us informed as you evolve your design and then begin your build.

I like your idea for a straight double-track custom bridge.  I remember reading that one of the custom bridge builders could handle bridges with curves.  I have looked at the curved bridges over the yard, and wondered myself if I should try a redesign to see if a straight bridge could work in.

Cheers!  Ken

Last edited by Ken-Oscale

No problem and thank you so much, Ken........I have RRtrack (I am not very good using it) and have copied the basic design. I re-angled the overpass over the yard so I could commission someone like Jim of BridgeBoss to make me a double track truss bridge.

Because I have a door on the upper left and the lower right, I reversed the design. I plan to have the layout with access on all sides. I will be using the walls for shelves to display my collection.

I am using Ross track and switches.

My scenery will be urban/city/industrial. On the upper left wing of the layout, I have a lead and left room for a possible transfer table.

I have at least another year before I have the room......this is 2nd design I have looked at for the space. I am trying yo be very measured and look at all possibilities.

8B3DD36E-DE37-4D19-8F94-0E3A108DB6F1

Ken, I love your work......you are a master at layout planning.  What excites me about this design is that there is an over/under aspect....I would never be able to think of this on my own....I only seem to be able to think in 2 dimensions. Thank you for all the neat plans you post. I am an avid reader of your posts and plans.

My next step is to add reverse loops. I can see one with a removable bridge across the access gap. I can see another starting in the bottom part of the layout, coming off the loop, crossing under the embankment and rising to the inner loop on the top right.

Thanks again,

Peter

 

Peter, I like the way you have designed your yard.   It looks like there may be an opportunity to create a run-around opposite the yard lead connecting track.   The long curved spur might be able to connect with a pair of turnouts to the yard lead, if you bring the lead's turnout a bit further down on the mainline.  -Ken

Hello Ken,

Maybe I missed something, but did drop the idea of the larger radius curves and go back to the smaller radius curves as I see you now have more yard track?

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Peter, I like the way you have designed your yard.   It looks like there may be an opportunity to create a run-around opposite the yard lead connecting track.   The long curved spur might be able to connect with a pair of turnouts to the yard lead, if you bring the lead's turnout a bit further down on the mainline.  -Ken

Ken,

How would the 072/081 design look if you reversed it like Peter intends? curious if you would change anything?

i too have a door in the lower left hand corner of the room though I have an additional 4 feet of width available. I’m wondering if it would inspire a change in any way.

As always great work Ken.

RC.

@Allegheny posted:

Hello Ken,

Maybe I missed something, but did drop the idea of the larger radius curves and go back to the smaller radius curves as I see you now have more yard track?

Hi Allegheny, I have three versions I am working with in this thread, jumping between them as ideas occur.  That is confusing, I am sure.  So the O54/O63 uses the smaller diam. curves, whereas the O72/O81 uses the wider curves.

I may try the O54/O63 as an article for submission to OGR, its smaller size MAY work for the magazine, where the larger version probably will not fit.  So I have put a bit more effort into the O54/O63 version, which was my original start.   I got into the O72/O81 version following suggestions, and it turned out to be interesting.   I may do the S-gauge version for OGR as something unique and small size.

Ken

@R.Cabrera posted:

Ken,

How would the 072/081 design look if you reversed it like Peter intends? curious if you would change anything?

i too have a door in the lower left hand corner of the room though I have an additional 4 feet of width available. I’m wondering if it would inspire a change in any way.

As always great work Ken.

RC.

Off the top of my head, I would start by just flipping the entire layout.  With 4 feet of extra width, I would bring over the yard loop 4 feet, expanding the yard, and also increasing the squeeze-point distance between the loops.   Maybe also stretch the bottom loop 3 feet.  I might be able to decrease the grades if I stretch each loop some.

The O72/O81 layout seems to have "everything", with the latest addition being the downgrade connection for the out-and-back and optional bridge to reverse both ways.   I would probably look to see if I can extend the downgrade connection so as to reduce the grade to closer to 2.5%.  Other ideas might occur.

RC, is this something you would really like to see?  That is, would you really build an extended version?

Thanks!  -Ken

Edit:  maybe stretch the access areas a bit for comfort.

Last edited by Ken-Oscale
@Ken-Oscale posted:

Off the top of my head, I would start by just flipping the entire layout.  With 4 feet of extra width, I would bring over the yard loop 4 feet, expanding the yard, and also increasing the squeeze-point distance between the loops.   Maybe also stretch the bottom loop 3 feet.  I might be able to decrease the grades if I stretch each loop some.

The O72/O81 layout seems to have "everything", with the latest addition being the downgrade connection for the out-and-back and optional bridge to reverse both ways.   I would probably look to see if I can extend the downgrade connection so as to reduce the grade to closer to 2.5%.  Other ideas might occur.

RC, is this something you would really like to see?  That is, would you really build an extended version?

Thanks!  -Ken

Ken,  I would love to see what it looks like. I have the space so I am not opposed to using it.

thanks Ken.

RC.

@R.Cabrera posted:

Ken,  I would love to see what it looks like. I have the space so I am not opposed to using it.

thanks Ken.

RC.

RC, here is a simple flip and extension of the layout for your space.  Without any fixes or enhancements.

RC's O72-O81V1b

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@Ken-Oscale posted:

RC, here is a simple flip and extension of the layout for your space.  Without any fixes or enhancements.

RC's O72-O81V1b

I have been trying to find a plan for the next layout to come in a couple years after my wife and I move. THIS is stunning. The only things I personally would like to see are some more town area, and a place for a coal mine. But wow this is incredible. I commend you for your creativity.

Matt

@Badge109 posted:

I have been trying to find a plan for the next layout to come in a couple years after my wife and I move. THIS is stunning. The only things I personally would like to see are some more town area, and a place for a coal mine. But wow this is incredible. I commend you for your creativity.

Matt

Thanks Matt!  Will work on the bigger town areas.  Coal mine is in the upper right.

Many thanks!!  -Ken

Last edited by Ken-Oscale

First rough attempt to make use of the expanded/stretched area of RC's larger layout.  Grades are eased in the turnback loops.  Much work to do, but it gives an idea.  The yard has been stretched some.

RC's O72-O81V1c

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale
@Ken-Oscale posted:

Hi Allegheny, I have three versions I am working with in this thread, jumping between them as ideas occur.  That is confusing, I am sure.  So the O54/O63 uses the smaller diam. curves, whereas the O72/O81 uses the wider curves.

I may try the O54/O63 as an article for submission to OGR, its smaller size MAY work for the magazine, where the larger version probably will not fit.  So I have put a bit more effort into the O54/O63 version, which was my original start.   I got into the O72/O81 version following suggestions, and it turned out to be interesting.   I may do the S-gauge version for OGR as something unique and small size.

Ken

Hello Ken,

Thank you for your reply. 

Now I understand just what is going on within this thread.  Somewhere along the way I must have missed an earlier discussion or two that would have explained it all.    Again you have an interesting layout design where in which you tie two reversing loops together thereby adding additional operational routes.  

The only suggestion I have for the 072/081 curve design, is to possibly add a switch one or two switches going from the outside rail to the inner one one on either side of you lift out bridge that ties the two loops together.

Given your recent updates, could you also post an updated 3D version for the 072/081 curve design as it would help me to better conceptualize the design changes?

Thanks!

 

Last edited by Allegheny

I wanted to see what it would look like if the two turnouts in the upper right forming the hidden staging tracks were 'daylighted'.

RC's O72-O81V1h

I think I like the look with the two turnouts hidden, accessible from the access area.

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Last edited by Ken-Oscale

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