Did and do trains travel directionally on tracks like cars on roads?

Paul Kallus posted:

My only experience with real trains is taking commuter trains - mostly on the PRR mainline - and I recall the terms "inbound" and "outbound", and except when there was track maintenance locomotives pulled/pushed trains in the same direction as cars on roads (in the US anyway), e.g., on a double-tracked mainline the train on the right-hand track proceeds such that the left-hand side of the engine (or port side) passed to the left-hand side of the train on the left-hand track.

That depends on the railroad. The C&NW, for example is mostly "left-hand running" on their double track. When the UP merged/took over the C&NW, they have been installing CTC with reversible direction signals. The METRA commuter service, however, is still "left-hand running".

Was this always the rule - and was there specific reasons - such as line of sight of the engineer and fireman?

The "right-hand running" was, and still is, generally accepted practice throughout the U.S. on those railroads with double track AND automatic block signaling. As more and more U.S. railroads have gone to full CTC control, any train can be going in any direction on any track, as the centralized Train Dispatcher controls everything on his computer screens.

I guess the British railways travel on the opposite directions?

Right, but then the Driver (Engineer) is on the left side of the locomotive also.

 

Yep! AS HW pointed out, It's called the current of traffic... The movement of trains on a main track in one direction specified by the rules.  

Anyone know which way BNSF does it? They seem to favor the British style from what I have seen in my area, but I am pretty sure I have seen them run both directions on either track of a two track main between Argentine yard and Olathe, KS?

I see them while out walking, I'll have to watch them more closely from now on to see what track they are on. It's sometimes difficult to tell, depending on where you are on the walking trails.

Some American railroads have localized exceptions to the usual right-hand running rule if the geography of a certain area gave a more favorable uphill grade on one track over the other, like in situations where a second track was added later. Sometimes the second track might be parallel and in some places it might diverge on a longer alignment with easier grade.

There are also some multi-track main lines where the signalling allows bi-directional running on either track for more flexibility in passing trains or handling traffic irregularities. Sometimes 3-track mainlines in urban areas have the center track set up for bi-directional operation to handle peak traffic flows when inbound or outbound traffic predominates.

A unique variation was used in the old Rochester NY subway, used by trolleys and interurbans: right-hand running was the norm on all routes, except they switched to left-hand running in the downtown subway portion that had stations with island platforms, to accommodate the cars that were designed for curb-side passenger loading.

For model railroad purposes we can come up with various excuses to make exceptions to the "rules".

In the terminology of railroad rules, when two tracks are each signaled for operation in one direction only and the direction of movement is specified in the employee timetable, it's called Double Track.  when trains move in either direction on two (or more) tracks -- such as is done where CTC is installed on all tracks -- it's called Two or More Tracks.

The advantage to Double Track is that trains follow each other all the way without requiring that the Dispatcher keep lining them up.  The disadvantage is that faster trains catch up to slower preceding trains, and then they arrive at the next terminal in a fleet.  Running one train around another by crossing the following train over and running against the current of traffic on the opposite track requires quite a bit of Dispatcher management and delays trains in both directions.  Thus it is almost never done.  There are sidings which a train can be directed to use in order to allow a following train to pass.

Until around 1960, Santa Fe was Double Track all the way from Dalies, NM, to San Bernardino, CA, (1,000 miles, more or less) and the railroad successfully ran 100 MPH passenger trains with 60 MPH freight trains.  It can be done.

I had read that the C&NW, Chicago and Northwestern, ran trains on the left track, passing others traveling in the opposite direction,  to the right of them, as the road was surveyed by British engineers.  I am no C&NW expert, but that is what I read.  I wondered, after the mergers, if a lot of trackwork and signalling had to change, if there is still active old C&NW routes.

colorado hirailer posted:

I had read that the C&NW, Chicago and Northwestern, ran trains on the left track, passing others traveling in the opposite direction,  to the right of them, as the road was surveyed by British engineers.  I am no C&NW expert, but that is what I read.  I wondered, after the mergers, if a lot of trackwork and signalling had to change, if there is still active old C&NW routes.

Actually that is an "old wives tail" which has been perpetuated for many decades.  The real truth of why the former C&NW is STILL "left-hand running", goes way back to the 1800s when the line was first constructed. As a single track passenger line, handling passengers to and from Chicago westward to the ever expanding suburbs, the stations were all built on the north side of the railroad, in order to protect passengers from the winter weather, while waiting for their morning trains inbound to Chicago. As traffic and business expanded, a second track was needed in order to handle the ever increasing commuter business. The second track was added to the south side of the original track, obviously since all the stations/depots were already built on the north side of the original track.  Thus, the inbound, i.e towards downtown Chicago continued to use the "left-hand" track for eastbound trains, while the added second track, south of the original track, was used for outbound (westbound) trains, thus "left-hand running".

Very simple once the "rest of the story" is explained.

colorado hirailer posted:

I had read that the C&NW, Chicago and Northwestern, ran trains on the left track, passing others traveling in the opposite direction,  to the right of them, as the road was surveyed by British engineers.  I am no C&NW expert, but that is what I read.  I wondered, after the mergers, if a lot of trackwork and signalling had to change, if there is still active old C&NW routes.

That was one story, but the one I heard was that when CNW double-tracked their key commuter routes, the majority of in-bound stations were on the left-hand (north) side and they opted for inbound being the priority, hence left-hand running. I suspect that this was pre-CTC. Unfortunately, I've never set foot in CNW territory, so I've never witnessed the old way or what they're doing now, but the old photos seemed to show a preference for left-hand running. So, of course, one time when I had control of the club layout for some work I was doing...

Urban legend aside, modernly, I see trains running on either track in either direction under CTC. I've even seen them literally zig-zag through crossovers around lower-priority traffic.

Unbelievable. HW was posting while I was typing.

Number 90 posted:

In the terminology of railroad rules, when two tracks are each signaled for operation in one direction only and the direction of movement is specified in the employee timetable, it's called Double Track.  when trains move in either direction on two (or more) tracks -- such as is done where CTC is installed on all tracks -- it's called Two or More Tracks.

That is very good to know. Then I think I might be seeing two or more tracks around here, instead of double track? Whichever one it is, I will now be watching more closely the direction of travel and which track the trains are on. Thanks.

I know the Pennsylvania ran right hand traffic in the 1940s.  That is the way I will run my double track main.

rtr12 posted:

Anyone know which way BNSF does it? They seem to favor the British style from what I have seen in my area, but I am pretty sure I have seen them run both directions on either track of a two track main between Argentine yard and Olathe, KS?

 That territory is all tow or more tracks with CTC.  Being close to Argentine Yard, trains tend to run the same direction on the same track, however they can run either direction on either track on Olathe Hill.  And there are three main tracks next to the river, where the High Line runs next to the two you see.

On Cajon Pass, before the recent updates, there was an interesting situation.  Do to a flyover up on the pass, part of the railroad was right hand running, the other left, depending on one's relationship with the flyover.

SP, now UP in NM has a like situation, because SP purchased a parallel railroad, and made both  double tracks.  Due to the construction of the two lines, sometimes you have right, other times left running..  I don't know if UP has upgraded this section to CTC yet.

Just yesterday evening I saw an MBTA (Boston) commuter train heading west bound on the right hand track of a double set. Then about an hour later, I saw a commuter train heading east bound on what looked like the same track.  This particular stretch of track has what I am guessing is a signal block for a small siding for a cement company.  I doubt it's been used since the '40s!  This block has two sets of lights and a white dwarf at each end and the green over red lights on the right most signal during both sightings seemed to confirm that both outbound and inbound trains were running on the same right/north-side track.  I was a bit puzzled by it as the track in this section is dedicated to the commuter rail and nothing else.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Just to keep it interesting (and confusing), the Brits used an 'up' and 'down' track and train designation, with the 'up' direction being towards a major centre, like say London.

Number 90 posted:

rtr12 posted:

Anyone know which way BNSF does it? They seem to favor the British style from what I have seen in my area, but I am pretty sure I have seen them run both directions on either track of a two track main between Argentine yard and Olathe, KS?

 That territory is all tow or more tracks with CTC.  Being close to Argentine Yard, trains tend to run the same direction on the same track, however they can run either direction on either track on Olathe Hill.  And there are three main tracks next to the river, where the High Line runs next to the two you see.

I know the area where the 3 tracks are located. The walking trail goes down to the river as well, but I don't go there as often. I have seen the track along the river that rises up higher than the other two. Not sure where that one goes, or why it raises in elevation? I will have to use Google Earth and follow that one. Not sure how many trains a day pass through there, but there are quite a few. I usually walk for close to an hour and sometimes see 4 or 5 trains.

The walking trail follows along Mill Creek from Olathe to the river. The RR tracks sort of follow the creek as well, at least they are close to the trail in several areas. In those areas you get a very good view of the trains. There is one place I go quite a bit where the trail goes through a culvert under the tracks in a couple of different places. I have gotten some good pictures and videos there. Even get to see the Boeing 737 fuselages pass through every once in a while.

Nice to find someone familiar with that area and also the railroad. It's always good to learn more about the tracks and trains I see all the time. I really know very little about all this stuff and any info is interesting.

The SP in the 70's over Donner pass often ran compass west trains left hand to access the lower elevation offered by the two mile tunnel otherwise know as the big hole.  Especially the heavy ones.  UP has now abandoned the original line over the top through tunnel 6 so they all go through the tunnel. 

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Denver to Pueblo "Joint line".  The USRA (circa 1918) made the parallel lines of DRGW and ATSF/C&S into true double track with signaling for each line in one direction only.

The Galena Division, a portion of which was the original route of the CNW, was already CTCed with cab signals way back in the Dark Ages of 1969, when I first hired out as a Brakeman.  The only wayside signals were approach and home signals at interlockings.  We ran whichever track was considered most advantageous by the Train Dispatcher and crossed over from one track to the other with some regularity during most trips.

The maximum authorized speed was 50 mph, as I recall, with plenty of slow orders.  We'd be wowed, periodically, when assigned a run-through UP waycar in which many discarded UP train orders could be found stuffed in every available crevice.  A Conductor once announced that he'd found one in our then current caboose stating that speed must be reduced to 70 mph account of bad track - we could only dream as we trundled along...

I appreciate the good information.

With the abundance of lighted signals that can be triggered from either isolated rails and infrared devices, we can make some interesting operations on our layouts. I am a long way away from such sophistication though.

I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled across it and thought I'd add a bit of trivia.  I collect railroad lanterns and in doing research on rear marker lamps, I discovered there is a case where the two marker lamps would actually display different colors from each other at the same time, instead of the normal same two colors on each side (i.e. red or yellow).  If there are multiple tracks, and the train is going against the normal current of traffic flow, it would display a red (or yellow for some railroads) signal to the rear on the outside of the tracks, and it would display a green signal to the rear on the inside next to the track that is the normal current.  Consider the attached image with two mainline tracks.  Let’s assume the track on the right side is the normal current flow of traffic for a train going away from us.  In this case, the train is on the left track, which isn't the normal traffic flow direction.  So the marker lamps show red on the left side, which is on the outside of the tracks, and green on the inside, next to the normal current of traffic flow track.    If the train had been traveling on the track on the right, which would be the normal flow of traffic, then it would display the typical red signal on both sides of the railcar.  

and on more than two tracks when running with the current of traffic, or when standing or running against the current of traffic, markers lighted displaying red to the rear unless otherwise directed by special instructions.

When a train is clear ( as in a siding) of the main track to be passed by another train, lighted markers will display green to the rear.    (does not apply in CTC territory) Geese!! nice to hear from JEFFPO I though I was  the only one that cared.

Rob Leese posted:

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Denver to Pueblo "Joint line".  The USRA (circa 1918) made the parallel lines of DRGW and ATSF/C&S into true double track with signaling for each line in one direction only.

The Canadian National and Canadian Pacific railroads did the same thing with their parallel lines.  The two railroads share each other's tracks with single-direction running on each track starting somewhere east of Vancouver then up through the Fraser River Valley to a point west of Kamloops.  The CP track is used for eastbound traffic and the CN track is used for westbound.   At Kamloops the two railroads diverge with the CN going north toward Jasper and Edmonton and the CP going east toward Lake Louise, Banff and Calgary.  Beautiful country for a train ride!

Bill

JeffPo posted:

If there are multiple tracks, and the train is going against the normal current of traffic flow, it would display a red (or yellow for some railroads) signal to the rear on the outside of the tracks, and it would display a green signal to the rear on the inside next to the track that is the normal current.

Absolutely correct, Jeff.

And . . . the Engineer would sound a different whistle signal when approaching road crossings, stations, and men at work.  The normal whistle signal for approaching road crossings, tunnels, men at work, etc., was two longs, one short, and one long.  The whistle signal for trains approaching an open office of communication was one extra long.

When running against the current of traffic, the whistle signal was different, in order to alert others that the approaching train was running against the current of traffic -- one extra long, followed by one short.

I was on an Amtrak train in Western UT, and it seems we were "left hand running". Was the track at the time two tracks with left hand running or two main tracks with full CTC?

Union Pacific's two track main across western Utah was once Double Track, but I am sure that I read somewhere that it has been CTC since at least the 1980's.  I'm thinking of Weber Canyon and that area, on west to Ogden.  If you are referring to something more recent, then you were probably seeing the D&RGW line down the west side of the Wasatch, through Helper, which is two main tracks and CTC for a distance.

This is a bit of topic. Left and right hand signals were both used in the UK and caused many headaches when lines merged that were of the opposite, especially in the steam era. After British Rail and the shrinkage of the millage I assume they have been unified.

I was on the UP in western UT in 1977.  My guess i was in or near Weber Canyon.