why are there so many videos of locomotives bursting in flames. Is it poor engine design, poor maintence or other? I see it on videos on facebook quite abit.
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From what I have heard, GEs have external fuel lines and are prone to burn plus the turbos catch fire at times.
Originally Posted by jim pastorius:
From what I have heard, GEs have external fuel lines and are prone to burn plus the turbos catch fire at times.
I feel a GE vs EMD debate starting. 
Hmmmmm...now what would make you think that .....???
I found this video on YouTube. Its pretty cool. I'm not sure if the videos you were talking about were just shot by random people, but this one is informative.
Nice training video from back in the day
I liked the film of a UP turbine blowing flames while passing under an overpass melting the asphalt.
Somehow ALCO's secret sales motto has been omitted from this thread...if it doesn't burn coal, it rolls it!!!
someone must know what is happening and not pro emd vs ge vs alco
Originally Posted by jim pastorius:
From what I have heard, GEs have external fuel lines and are prone to burn plus the turbos catch fire at times.
I've heard that also. I'm wondering if the 4 cycle design of GE has anything to do with the buildup of oil in the exhaust which is sometimes the reason.
?
Overuse in my opinion. BNSF Diesels that come to San Diego usually sits for 1-6 hours before getting built for the next train out of town. The only time I see BNSF Load up 5-10 engines for a train of 25-30 is , there is too many engines in the yard(s).
Some articles point to stack fires. When a diesel engine operates at a low load the stack becomes sooty. Then, when under a full load, the exhaust stack temperature can get extreme and ignite the soot and fuel residue. Much like a chimney fire with a wood stove or an uncleaned oil furnace chimney. So, a poorly tuned\maintained engine running for a long time would make this possibility greater.
Engine compartment fires are most likely from failed equipment and were probably less common.
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis:
Overuse in my opinion. BNSF Diesels that come to San Diego usually sits for 1-6 hours before getting built for the next train out of town. The only time I see BNSF Load up 5-10 engines for a train of 25-30 is , there is too many engines in the yard(s).
I assume you have lots of experience with EMD and GE diesel electric railroad locomotives?
Moonman - That's an interesting article (the part that I could read). I assume the exhaust becomes sooty due to possibly using lower grade fuels and/or the long exhaust runs allowing the exhaust to cool and condense in the stack?
Two sources of locomotive exhaust stack fires I know of are turbo failures and fuel system related failures. The turbo failure is due to an internal seal failure which allows the engines oil (which is also used to lubricate/cool the turbo) to leak into the compressor side of the turbo. This oil is pumped along with pressurized air back into the engine where the oil ignites and burns. The problem here is that even if the diesel fuel to the engine is shut off, the engine continues to run on the burning oil until the engines oil runs out. I assume at this point the engine is useless due to running on low/no oil pressure. The oil seal failure can also cause oil to leak into the turbine side of the turbo. In this case the oil is simply burnt in the exhaust traveling up the exhaust stack. Eventually the engine could run out of oil.
This looks like a turbo failure with oil leaking into the compressor side of the turbo. It appears that the engine cannot be shut down:
This looks more like a fuel related failure due to the intermittent exhaust fire. I'm sure someone who actually works for the railroad may be able to explain more. Start the video at about 3:00.
Originally Posted by Matt A:
Moonman - That's an interesting article (the part that I could read). I assume the exhaust becomes sooty due to possibly using lower grade fuels and/or the long exhaust runs allowing the exhaust to cool and condense in the stack?
That article is related to marine applications, and generally dos NOT relate to the issues of "flames out the stack" on railroad locomotives.
Two sources of locomotive exhaust stack fires I know of are turbo failures and fuel system related failures. The turbo failure is due to an internal seal failure which allows the engines oil (which is also used to lubricate/cool the turbo) to leak into the compressor side of the turbo. This oil is pumped along with pressurized air back into the engine where the oil ignites and burns. The problem here is that even if the diesel fuel to the engine is shut off, the engine continues to run on the burning oil until the engines oil runs out. I assume at this point the engine is useless due to running on low/no oil pressure. The oil seal failure can also cause oil to leak into the turbine side of the turbo. In this case the oil is simply burnt in the exhaust traveling up the exhaust stack. Eventually the engine could run out of oil.
What you describe may be an issue on GE engines, but not with the EMD turbocharged engines. The fast majority of "stack fires" on the turbocharged EMD engine was a result of a slipping clutch, which then allowed the turbine wheel to slow and eventually stop. Thus, the engine was choked for combustion air, and all the power assemblies became over-fueled. Once that over-fueling condition caught fire within the exhaust manifold, suddenly there was energy to drive the turbine whee to extremely high RPM, and forcing fresh air into the power assemblies. At that point the burning raw fuel in the exhaust manifold simply erupts, producing an enormous flame out of the turbo stack, which also destroyed the turbine blades and the whole wheel assembly (the turbocharger is then scrap).l
This looks like a turbo failure with oil leaking into the compressor side of the turbo. It appears that the engine cannot be shut down:
This looks more like a fuel related failure due to the intermittent exhaust fire. I'm sure someone who actually works for the railroad may be able to explain more. Start the video at about 3:00.
For many years GE had a tip problem with the injector nozzle, and if & when the nozzle tip broke off, or blew off a nozzle, that tip would progress through the turbo just like a .45 caliber slug. Subsequent damage may have also been done to the blade/blades of the turbine wheel. Also, with that one, or maybe more, nozzle/nozzles no longer atomizing the fuel sprayed into the combustion chamber, the exhaust stream then had unburned raw fuel in it. Then that fuel ignited in the turbo exhaust stack, the big orange flame resulted.
GE locomotive have two issues in this area that the EMDs do not have. One is external fuel lines on the prime mover that when they fail, can and often do spray fuel on hot engine components and cause a fire in the engine compartment, causing the scorched paint on the middle of the hood, as so often seen on GE locomotives. Another issue that happens at least through the Dash-8 series, (unsure if a Dash-9 or Gevo will do this), is that unlike an EMD turbo, the GE turbo is strictctly exhaust gas driven. Under certain conditions, if the throttle is reduced for a few seconds and then suddenly notched back open, the turbo lag can cause unburnt fuel to accumulate and then ignite in the exhaust stack in a momentary volcano of fire, which seems to be pretty harmless. I used to catch GE led NS freights westbound on the Wabash at NE interlocking in Fort Wayne do this once in great while.
I recall early FI fuel line problems on U25's. The repair guys were using the external fuel lines as footholds and handholds. This and the fact that the fuel lines had a welded seam caused a lot of them to fail. GE pretty quickly went to seamless high pressure fuel lines but that eliminated one failure mode. The early injectors were not a "unit injector" like EMD had, and were a low cost item that GE recommended be replaced every 30 days, during the locomotive's monthly inspection. Well, you know the railroads.....they ran them until they failed, and a number would fail catastrophically when the tip was blown off after being partially plugged. When that occurred, there was usually a fire. The railroad's policy of buying "repaired" nozzles from remanufacturers exacerbated this problem. Once an injector is worn, there is not much you can cost effectively do to bring it back into tolerance re fuel flow and spray pattern.
The new GE's have greatly advanced turbocharger technology, including redesigned sealing arrangement and changes in the injection system that greatly reduce both required maintenance and instances of failure. Anything that puts out 4400 traction horsepower from 12 cylinders is technically challenging though, no matter who builds it.
