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I'd love it if all the car bodies, from all the manufacturer's, were at the same height, so that a standard coupler shim would fit all the cars... but alas, they are not.

 

Recently, I got an email from my friend Bob, asking about different shims for different cars, and here's my response:

 





Hi Bob,

 

I am making designs as fast as I can, and right now we have shims for Lionel Steel Reefers, Lionel PS-1 & Round Top Boxcars and Atlas 40' Steel Reefers.  Like the Lionel PS-1 and round top boxcar shims, some will fit other cars as well.

 

Here's the reason why there's so many...  The steel reefers have a cast-in rib down the centerline of the car, so the coupler shim has to be recessed in that area so it fits flat against the bottom side of the floor.

 

As for the PS-1s and round top boxcars, they use the same floor, but there are two ribs running down the length of the car, so there must be two recesses in the top of the shim so its sits flush against the floor.  What's cool about these cars is that I've designed the shim to be reversible... so if you want to model a cushioned draft gear box, you turn it so the short end faces the end sill, and then the coupler box is extended out past the end sill.  If you want the coupler box flush with the end sill, then you put the long end of the shim facing the end sill, which sets the coupler father back in the frame! 

 

The Atlas reefers have the original mounting lugs in place, which if used put the coupler too far out of the end sill, so the shim has two holes in it to accommodate the factory lugs and then has another set, just slightly back from that for the Kadee screws, which then puts the coupler box even with the end sill.  What's nice about these is the fact that you can use the factory Atlas holes to mount the Kadee box if you want to simulate cushioned draft gear, which sticks the coupler box out away from the end sill slightly, or use the new screw holes to mount if flush against the end sill, like Laidoffsick did in his Atlas Trainman caboose video.

 

Cool huh?

 

Thanks,

Mario

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Mario,

Yes I have noticed that too when mounting Kadee couplers & in extreme cases where the shim thickness would be excessive you could be forced to use those Kadee 742 Overset couplers in combination with the Micro-Mark Kadee shims. I faced this situation when I was trying to convert a K-Line 21” passenger car to 2-rail.

At the other extreme, I had to use the Kadee 747 Underset couplers on the Lionel Husky cars to get to the correct coupler height since the cars rode so low.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Originally Posted by naveenrajan:

Mario,

Yes I have noticed that too when mounting Kadee couplers & in extreme cases where the shim thickness would be excessive you could be forced to use those Kadee 742 Overset couplers in combination with the Micro-Mark Kadee shims. I faced this situation when I was trying to convert a K-Line 21” passenger car to 2-rail.

At the other extreme, I had to use the Kadee 747 Underset couplers on the Lionel Husky cars to get to the correct coupler height since the cars rode so low.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

That's great information!

 

I'd love to see install photos to see how you did those, especially the husky stack cars.

 

Thanks,

- Mario

I've had cars that required 1/4" shims, but usually you'll find you can use a thinner shim if you replace the trucks with a different makers truck.  Problem is you can't always know if a truck will need replacing or how thick the shim should be until you start taking the car apart.

 

Shims, underframe, and body heights are all over the place.  One maker will copy anothers efforts, right down to the same car number on a model, yet some of the things that would make these toys look better are all over the place.

 

One thing that hurts us in 3-rail is the oversize wheel flanges and resulting tread diameter, you have to leave room under the car for the flange to clear things.  If a car is made for 2 and 3-rail (like Atlas) then it will sit higher/lower, depending on the type of trucks used (2 or 3-rail).

 

It's called "STANDARDS", something we'll never see in O scale in my lifetime

Originally Posted by Laidoffsick:
I refuse to use under set and over set Kadees because real couplers don't look like that. The main reason for swapping to Kadees in the 1st place is for looks, so why not just use a spacer and the center set coupler. Those off set couplers just look goofy to me.

I agree. I had one car that I simply could not get the coupler height correct on only one end, so I tried one of those "offset" head couplers. Ddin't like it at all. I'll go back and re-fix the darned car, and take that off.

Some of the cars I have (MTH I think) had fairly large dimple "bolsters" on the bottom side of the sheet metal floor.  Turning these upside down so the dimples are on the inside significantly lowers the car, then you have a big dished area to cover.

 

I covered mine with squares of .030 aluminum painted black, used the 2 mounting screws at each end of the car to hold them (and the floor) in place, and tapped the aluminum for the Kadees couplers.

 

I knew I had a photo or 2:

 

 

aluminum plate 001

aluminum plate 002

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Images (2)
  • aluminum plate 001
  • aluminum plate 002
Last edited by Bob Delbridge

I did a few of those 3R cars for someone awhile back. It took 2 of the MicroMark shims which are .025" each.. so .050 total to get the height correct. I do believe the 3R trucks/wheels make the car sit a tad higher than the 2R version.

 

Mario, because of the lack of width on the frame, you will have to use the center moutning holes. They just need to be moved back so the draft gear box is flush with the end of the car, like Dave has shown. 

Unless they've recently changed, Atlas uses the same trucks for two and three rail, and only the wheels are different. I think one reason shims are needed when installing Kadees on Atlas cars is the considerable difference in Atlas's draft gear box (factory-installed on two-rail models) and Kadee's. The Atlas box is a lot thicker on top where it mounts to the car, and Atlas presumably designs for this. Put a Kadee, with its much thinner draft gear box lid, on the same car, and you are more likely to need to shim to bring the coupler to NMRA height.

 

RM

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