I went to the National Train Show today. I had a nice talk with Andy Edleman of MTH. According to Andy, pre-orders of the F-units have been decent. He expects more sales once they are released. The F-units are using the O scale PS3 boards. The switchers will be next. Their new boards are now complete. The 2-8-0 boards are not done yet so they will come last. All in all he estimates it will take about 3 years before they have all of the SHS reruns out. I asked him about new tooling, and his answer was it all depends on sales of the former SHS products. He seems hesitant to invest in a market that he all but admitted that they don't quite have a handle on. I told him that it seemed strange to gauge interest for new products from sales of existing products that have been out for decades. His response was that he felt that the MTH PS3 electronics would make all the difference. So there you have it... It will be about 3 years before you see anything new from MTH, and only if they sell enough of the reissues.

 

This is exactly in line with what I said almost two years ago. My own personal opinion is that MTH has it's priorities weighted firmly in HO and European with O and S falling into line respectively. I don't blame them one bit. The HO market is huge and seems to be booming right now. They have a lot of O scale tooling that they can upgrade with PS3 without new tooling costs. That goes right to the bottom line. I think that S is an experiment for them. I'm sure they can turn a profit just re-releasing the existing SHS tooling. If it sells well then they may offer new tooling. If it doesn't, then who knows. I will say that Andy said that they want to be in S for the long term though. I hope they are. I really look forward to seeing something new from them. It's just hard to wait so long.

-Jonathan

 

Original Post

Sadly, that is one of the main reasons that formed my hard decision to leave S scale.  At 62 years of age I simply can't wait for several years for product to "possibly" be available.

 

If I'm going to have a small layout with a LOT of variety in equipment, it pretty much had to be HO.

 

Coming from a Frisco background, it was hard to do without a VO1000 and other key items.

 

Originally Posted by laming:

Sadly, that is one of the main reasons that formed my hard decision to leave S scale.  At 62 years of age I simply can't wait for several years for product to "possibly" be available.

 

If I'm going to have a small layout with a LOT of variety in equipment, it pretty much had to be HO.

 

Coming from a Frisco background, it was hard to do without a VO1000 and other key items.

 

I can totally understand. My problem is that I came from O and no matter how hard I try I can't fall in love with HO. I've pretty much decided I will have to have multiple layouts. I'll do the best I can in S, My son will have his Railking 3 rail O layout, and I'll be collecting PRR 2 Rail O scale pieces for the day that I can hopefully build a decent 2 rail layout. At least if they are gonna sit on the shelf they will look better

 

 

-Jonathan

 

I think any new development in S is a good thing! Maybe no new tooling yet but just the fact that we will be seeing PS-3 with all the sounds and control is a big step ahead for the old S Helper tooling. We could see Lionel step it up another notch now that MTH is in the game.  Time will tell I guess. 

Originally Posted by jonnyspeed:

All in all he estimates it will take about 3 years before they have all of the SHS reruns out. I asked him about new tooling, and his answer was it all depends on sales of the former SHS products. He seems hesitant to invest in a market that he all but admitted that they don't quite have a handle on. I told him that it seemed strange to gauge interest for new products from sales of existing products that have been out for decades. His response was that he felt that the MTH PS3 electronics would make all the difference. So there you have it... It will be about 3 years before you see anything new from MTH, and only if they sell enough of the reissues.

 

 

This is why I maintain that both MTH and Lionel need to start making appearances where S Gaugers flock: S Fests, S Sprees and NASG Conventions.

 

Although they help to introduce S to the outside world, York, the World's Greatest Hobby and National Train Shows are not the best places to judge the S market as a stand alone entity.

 

It’s important also to remember that SHS wasn’t built in a day, it was built over a 20+ year period.  Their origin goes back to 1989.

 

First, what was S-Helper Service did just that: Provide help, financially and if I recall correctly some product development.  American Models was the recipient.  AM’s RS3’s, FA2’s USRA 4-6-2’s, GP35’s and Heavyweight passenger cars were the result of SHS’s early involvement. 

 

Plus even earlier, the founders of SHS were members of the New Jersey club that “helped” AM with their bay window caboose.

 

I've assembled this brief chronology of SHS based on catalogs I have.  Admittedly, some of it is sketchy.

 

SHS began as their own product line began in 1994 with one car: the PS2- two bay covered hopper.  The outside braced boxcar, stock car and SW9 appeared by 1997, with the GSC flat car variants, steel rebuilt boxcar and extended-vision caboose being set to arrive late the same year.

 

1999 saw the announcement of the F3’s, PS2-three bay covered hoppers and S-Trax.

 

2000 we were still waiting for the F3’s.  The SW1 and starter sets were announced.

 

2001 and still waiting for the F3’s.  Woodside reefers and double sheathed boxcars announced.

 

2002: the F3’s show up around October, going by my photographic records.  As I recall, the F7’s were announced in late 2001/early 2002.

 

USRA 55 ton hopper variations and ore cars were announced either 2002 or 2003.  There’s a gap here in my catalogs.

 

2003: 2-8-0 announced.  F7’s arrive. 

 

2004: NW2, SW8, E7(cancelled) and Bay Window Caboose(cancelled) announced.  We were still waiting on the 2-8-0’s.

 

2005: No new tooling product announcements.

 

2006: 2-8-0’s arrive, again based on photographic record.

 

2007: No new tooling product announcements.

 

2008: Covered USRA twin hopper announced.

 

2009: Bethlehem Steel 55 ton twin hopper announced.  Never delivered due to Sanda Kan reorganization.

 

Overall, freight cars came out pretty much within 12 months of announcement, but I think this pretty much shows that even in the "good old days" there were delays involved.  New roadnames for most existing freight cars and SW's trickled in over the years. The reason for the cancellation of the E7 and bay window caboose was because the 2-8-0 sucked up more resources that originally anticipated.

 

SHS essentially "spoiled" us.  It's been said by some they were the best, most responsive train manufacturer in any scale.

 

That's a hard act to follow.

 

Rusty

I have a different view Rusty. I think that S gauge needs to come out of the shadows and align more with the National show and the NMRA. This is where the new blood in the hobby is. This is where modelers in other scales can cross over.

 

IMHO, there may not be enough S modelers buying enough rehash SHS products to warrant MTH making new tooling. I applaud MTH for being at the Nat'l show. That's more than I can say for Lionel. Having an S display at the show is the only way they will bring in new buyers form other scales. If they don't bring in new blood there won't be much new product made going forward I'm afraid.

-Jonathan

 

I'm not suggesting S manufacturers or groups not show up at the national shows.  Nowhere in my little epistle have I said that.

 

What I'm suggesting is the two major manufacturers show up where S Gaugers congregate.  None of those events are "members only."

 

They need to talk directly to those already in the scale, too.

 

IMHO

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:

I'm not suggesting S manufacturers or groups not show up at the national shows.  Nowhere in my little epistle have I said that.

 

What I'm suggesting is the two major manufacturers show up where S Gaugers congregate.  None of those events are "members only."

 

They need to talk directly to those already in the scale, too.

 

IMHO

 

Rusty

 

Rusty,

 

I can see some problems if the manufactures directly respond to individuals requests at any event. They could go to a show which has people like yourself only seeking new products to meet a much finer requirement, and there is nothing wrong that but if they decided this was the only way to go then they could be disadvantaging the hi-rail fraternity which currently is the core group. 

 

Likewise, if they went to a meet solely of hi-rail people, then they could be swayed not to support you, Ed and others. 

 

 

 

Either way it could actually do more harm than help.

 

 

 

I don't see a viable means of how 'S' manufactures can collect accurate data as to what individuals needs are and as to what proportion they set up manufacturing to support the     split ratio, any other ideas?

 

 

Originally Posted by Ukaflyer:
Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:

I'm not suggesting S manufacturers or groups not show up at the national shows.  Nowhere in my little epistle have I said that.

 

What I'm suggesting is the two major manufacturers show up where S Gaugers congregate.  None of those events are "members only."

 

They need to talk directly to those already in the scale, too.

 

IMHO

 

Rusty

 

Rusty,

 

I can see some problems if the manufactures directly respond to individuals requests at any event. They could go to a show which has people like yourself only seeking new products to meet a much finer requirement, and there is nothing wrong that but if they decided this was the only way to go then they could be disadvantaging the hi-rail fraternity which currently is the core group. 

 

Likewise, if they went to a meet solely of hi-rail people, then they could be swayed not to support you, Ed and others. 

 

 

 

Either way it could actually do more harm than help.

 

 

 

I don't see a viable means of how 'S' manufactures can collect accurate data as to what individuals needs are and as to what proportion they set up manufacturing to support the     split ratio, any other ideas?

 

 

I love it when people put words in my keyboard.

 

S Sprees, S Fests AND NASG Nationals ARE NOT scale only events.  In fact, the bulk of these events tends to lean towards the Flyer side. 

 

They are open to anyone interested in S, be it Flyer, Hirail, Scale, Narrow Gauge.  No membership in ANY organization needed.  They're even open to someone who comes in out of the rain...

 

When I advocate, I advocate for S as a whole, not just the scale side.  And it's the manufacturers that have the tough job of trying to understand the various facets of S.

 

Exactly how can MTH and Lionel attempt to understand the existing S market if they have no exposure to it, other than the few S folks that attend general shows?  Even forums such as OGR and Yahoo exposes only a minority of those interested in S.

 

What better place to meet and talk to the cross section of the scale (or gauge, if you prefer) without the clutter of other scales than at the aforementioned events?

 

S is a three legged stool: Flyer, Hirail and Scale.  It won't stand with one leg missing.

 

Rusty

 

 

Rusty,

 

I wasn't putting words into your 'keyboard', I was very careful to use the term 'events', which covers a large cross section of what people to attend. Perhaps you should slow down on speed reading and take in what people say!

 

As to three elements in this concoction, I see that Flyer and Hi-rail have an awful lot in common and in reality could actually merge as one. Which just leaves two elements to worry about, lot easier for the manufactures then to see which directions to go?

 

Also, the few don't have the right to represent the many.

Originally Posted by Ukaflyer:

 

 

Rusty,

 

I wasn't putting words into your 'keyboard', I was very careful to use the term 'events', which covers a large cross section of what people to attend. Perhaps you should slow down on speed reading and take in what people say!

 

As to three elements in this concoction, I see that Flyer and Hi-rail have an awful lot in common and in reality could actually merge as one. Which just leaves two elements to worry about, lot easier for the manufactures then to see which directions to go?

 

Also, the few don't have the right to represent the many.

Funny... American Models, the former S Helper Service and S Scale America figured out how to attract Flyer, Hirail and Scale and make some money at it.

 

So, do people unfamiliar or vaguely familiar with S scale/gauge or a few S folks (be they Flyer, hirail or scale oriented) walking up to a manufacturer's display at a national-type train show have the right to represent all of S? 

 

Do people on the various forums have the right?  I guess we didn't have the right to encourage DCC compatibility and scale wheels on the SD70's with Lionel, then.  After all, there were so few of us representing that obnoxious faction of S.  Sorry...

 

You'll interact with more S folks at Spree's, Fests and NASG cons than any national hobby show or online forum.  Seems like a good place to start to me.

 

Nowhere in any of my postings have I indicated "S scale only" and the heck with all the rest.  Sure, I've shown an easy-peasy way to make the cylindrical hopper operate in a scale environment, but I've also shown how to make it look and operate better in the Flyer/Hirail world with AM hirail trucks and SHS couplers.

 

I will freely admit that in today's world, anything designed to the "traditional standards" of old Gilbert Flyer will draw little to no interest from the scale folks.  The waffle side boxcar is looking like it's going to be one of these.  Now, do I think Lionel shouldn't make it that way?  No.  There's a bunch of Flyer folks that will probably buy them regardless.  But if the Flyer guys don't buy them, the scale folks certainly won't.

 

I've been one of the few looking at the Flyerchief Berks from the perspective of the common consumer and not the scale faction.  Yeah, it would be nice if the assumed liberties aren't taken, but it's not the end of the S world if they wind up looking like the O27 baby Berks.

 

Rusty

Perhaps I should take a leaf from an earlier reply you made about my post putting words in 'your keyboard', are you not doing the same now. That reply was very generic in that it didn't mention specific events and then you quoted in bold, specifics, as if I had mentioned them, where did I actually say that?

 

Now you go into great detail about certain manufacturers, where again I was generic in not specifying any.

 

Yes, those manufacturers you mention have made a bit of money but perhaps the one thing they are possibly up against is the brand name of Flyer itself, S for years has been associated by the many with the Gilbert company and it will be difficult to wrestle that bond away.

 

As I said, an individual or a small number of people don't have the right to represent the many on their own needs or specific requirements, certainly voice them to manufacturers as an idea and let them take up the mantle as to if there is any mileage in it. All they are interested in is making a profit, what we want is probably secondary to them. If the consumer votes with their pocket then they need to start addressing the problem and understand what they should really be doing.

 

Although you promote and lobby Lionel for changes to its product line when it has flaws,  as to what it must do to correct the errors to appease you, I don't seem to see many, if any postings of similar 'wants' for the other manufacturers you throw up which you say are doing a great job, but surely they are also not perfect in every way! Perhaps I must have have missed those, probably not important enough.

 

For someone that says they are for S in all factions, you have a funny way of showing it. My perception is that as soon as Flyer, tinplate or hi-rail is mentioned you get on the defensive and look for any means to dispel what is said in favour of your own agenda, most intriguing!

 

 

Originally Posted by Ukaflyer:

Perhaps I should take a leaf from an earlier reply you made about my post putting words in 'your keyboard', are you not doing the same now. That reply was very generic in that it didn't mention specific events and then you quoted in bold, specifics, as if I had mentioned them, where did I actually say that?

 

Now you go into great detail about certain manufacturers, where again I was generic in not specifying any.

 

Yes, those manufacturers you mention have made a bit of money but perhaps the one thing they are possibly up against is the brand name of Flyer itself, S for years has been associated by the many with the Gilbert company and it will be difficult to wrestle that bond away.

 

As I said, an individual or a small number of people don't have the right to represent the many on their own needs or specific requirements, certainly voice them to manufacturers as an idea and let them take up the mantle as to if there is any mileage in it. All they are interested in is making a profit, what we want is probably secondary to them. If the consumer votes with their pocket then they need to start addressing the problem and understand what they should really be doing.

 

Although you promote and lobby Lionel for changes to its product line when it has flaws,  as to what it must do to correct the errors to appease you, I don't seem to see many, if any postings of similar 'wants' for the other manufacturers you throw up which you say are doing a great job, but surely they are also not perfect in every way! Perhaps I must have have missed those, probably not important enough.

 

For someone that says they are for S in all factions, you have a funny way of showing it. My perception is that as soon as Flyer, tinplate or hi-rail is mentioned you get on the defensive and look for any means to dispel what is said in favour of your own agenda, most intriguing!

 

 

Again, you miss my point.  You seem to totally disregard the fact that I happen to believe it would be advantageous for Lionel and MTH to show up where a large amount of S folk gather along with the other events they do. 

 

Exactly what is wrong with that? 

 

Or do you think a few select S gauges meet in smoke filled rooms at these events issuing demands to the manufacturers?

 

Rusty

 

 

UKaflyer,

 

Sorry, just don't see it. Rusty has made many posts on this forum, and he's been a consistent supporter of S scale railroading--in EVERY shape and form. His opinions carry a great deal of weight with me, and in this instance, he's right.

 

Jeff C

Well, I'm a scale guy to the core and Rusty has been very helpful to me both on and off this forum.
I think he speaks well for all sides of the S equation.
Good point in mentioning SHS, etc., and the effort made to work for both scaler and hi rail guys.
That needs to continue for any company to be successful in S.
As a scaler, I resent the idea that I'm going to have to pay significantly more to get scale wheels, at least that is what I'm given to understand.
But the scale must pull together to attract new models and I'm for any venue that makes that happen!
Funny, when in 2 rail O, there always folks bellyaching that too much was made for the 3 rail side forcing too much compromise in fidelity on the 2 rail side.
Ok Abe said it best, right here in Bloomington, "a house (scale) divided against itself cannot stand."
Point made.
Your turn.

John Albee

Originally Posted by jonnyspeed:

I think a big problem is that the cost of tooling has gotten so high. Ken Silvestri of BLI says it costs $250k to tool up a steam model in HO. That is a lot of models to move just to recoup the tooling cost.

Tooling cost for HO and S are about the same. Think how much easier it is to recoup the investment in HO than in S. Not a slam on S......just numbers.

 

BTW $250K for a complete loco is a deal.  Tooling cost in Asia/China is climbing fast...as are wages etc. Everyone is tooling everything they can....knowing in 2 years it will cost a lot more.

Rusty,

 

I have not missed your point at all. There is nothing wrong with people at events voicing views on what they see as a possible new product and I would do the same and I did actually mention that, you seem to have missed that line.

 

My point is what percentage of the overall 'S' fraternity do you actually find at these events?  The figure of 8,000 gets mentioned as being an estimate of total 'S' people, if there are say 250 at a meet this represents just 3% of that total, which I feel is on the low side to represent the majority.  250 like minded people may want a new item, great, problem is if the other 7,750 disagree it could be an expensive mistake. Waffle car comes to mind here.

What's the circulation of the S Gauge magazine, if anyone knows?

 

Wouldn't on-line surveys provide more comprehensive (and less expensive) information

than attending multiple train meets/conventions which are limited by geographic access?

 

I'm also thinking that 20% of the hobbyists buy 80% of the product, so surveying that committed, passionate subset would be key to knowing what might sell.

 

On the other hand these are tiny companies (<100 people, sometimes much less) so high quality marketing research is not going to be readily affordable for them.

Originally Posted by Ukaflyer:

Rusty,

 

I have not missed your point at all. There is nothing wrong with people at events voicing views on what they see as a possible new product and I would do the same and I did actually mention that, you seem to have missed that line.

 

My point is what percentage of the overall 'S' fraternity do you actually find at these events?  The figure of 8,000 gets mentioned as being an estimate of total 'S' people, if there are say 250 at a meet this represents just 3% of that total, which I feel is on the low side to represent the majority.  250 like minded people may want a new item, great, problem is if the other 7,750 disagree it could be an expensive mistake. Waffle car comes to mind here.

Well, the waffle side boxcar was decided most likely by one person: the American Flyer Product Manger(or whatever his title would be.)  Probably the same person who green lighted the likes of mint cars, zombie boxcars, SD70s and ES44s.

 

Just as AM, the former SHS and SSA ultimately have(had) one person deciding what to produce.

 

I hadn't seen a clamoring anywhere for a shrunken, flexible proportioned O27 car on a Flyer chassis by the way...

 

While approximately 250 attendees would likely be a relatively accurate number, the percentages you assume at these events are even lower, because they are not a monolithic block of one single interest. 

 

You still seem to be laboring under the illusion that Lionel, MTH or whoever would make their decisions solely based on a consensus of folks attending S only events.

 

Rusty

 

Rusty,

 

You may think that I appear to be labouring the point that decisions are made on these various meets but the truth is that is not what I am thinking or believing at all. These events are good to voice ideas but are not the definitive view of everyone.

 

I personally feel that all the current runs of oddities actually denigrates the Flyer brand name to the point it makes it a cheap product line, even though I feel it costs far more than it is really worth. Dare I say it again, but it seems to be mimicking the 'O' gauge marketing team who seem to believe that this is what people want, but if sales bring in the bottom line then it must be working, sadly!

It would seem reasonable to me to think that what is desired and successfully marketable in O would be so in S.  I am referring to types of locos and rolling stock and road names.  If people really want a heavy Mike in O, would that not be the same of S?  Seems that Lionel and MTH only have to look at what the O gauge/scale market is eating up and serve in S? 

Might be an oversimplified view of the matter but it works for me.  I am the "future". 33 years of age and spend money on S gauge trains, and I have a three year old who can work the legacy controller and run my Flyonel. I look the L and MTH O gauge catalogs and think about what of the same product I would by if it were in S.  And there is a lot. 

Ben

LCCA

Ultimately, for good or bad in today's climate, any new S production from either MTH or Lionel will likely be based on products previously cataloged in O. 

 

Both companies have their existing databases that can be rescaled, modified for S conditions and sent off to the toolmaker.  I'm convinced that's where they will draw from, whether or not an individual, group or large random sample wants a particular item next on the production line. 

 

I don't believe either company will go outside of their databases readily.

 

Rusty

Here's a hint for MTH...and Lionel,

 

Bring out good quality product, sell it at a fair price (a fair price is a price where you make money, and your customer feels like he or she got real value for the dollar), and above all, market the product properly and it will sell. It really is that simple.

 

If you don't believe me then please ask Scott Mann over at Sunset/3rd Rail, because it has been his business plan for quite a while.

 

I understand that tooling costs are high, and that production costs in China are rising, but the bottom line is still unchanged from fifty years ago--good quality product will sell, and flawed, low perceived value product will struggle. 

 

MTH could bring out a complete line of TT scale product tomorrow, and it would sell just fine--if the product was judged to be a good value for the money. Conventional wisdom says that there isn't a market for TT scale, but conventional wisdom is often wrong--there's a ready made market for TT scale out there right now, because there are a bunch of HO model railroaders who wish they could model big steam with smaller radius curves, and there are a ton of N scale modelers who wish that those N trains weren't quite so small...and those two groups (and the people like me who sometimes like things that are just a bit different from the norm) equal a ready made market for anybody brave enough to fill it. S scale isn't one bit different, and Don Thompson proved it.

 

In model railroading it took a long time for manufacturers to figure out that the product creates the market. Some manufacturers still don't get it.

 

This "the market just isn't there" complex has been going on in this industry forever, and to prove it you can look at back issues of RMC in the early 1970's when almost every month some poor N scale modeler was writing to the editor that such and such locomotive wasn't made in N...and wouldn't it be a grest idea?

The response was always the same, and the inherent condescension was readily apparent in the reply, and it was always the same exact reply--model railroading is a small market, there aren't enough N scale modelers out there, you should feel lucky that anything is made at all, if you want product you should model in a real scale, come see us when you're grown up enough to appreciate HO...blah-blah-blah....

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

Then when Atlas, Kato, and Life-Like started making those unwanted locomotives the market suddenly appeared out of nowhere, and N scale went through a period of great growth. The product drove the market. The same thing happened more recently in On30...Bachmann essentially created that market out of thin air.

 

Imagine if you will a letter to the model railroading "experts" several years ago about your grand plan to produce a large quantity of Peter Witt streetcars in every major scale...how would that have gone over? Don't be silly--there's no market for that!

 

Jeff C

 

 

I very much agree with what you said Jeff.

 

I still believe that IF S will ever grow, the product will need to be made and let the buyers "come". To that point, they need to design products for people who aren't even in S today. The existing S market is just too small. Without an influx of new people there won't be a big enough market to warrant the costs on a frequent basis. Your N scale analogy is spot on. This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier... The reports I have read recently claim that Model Railroading as a hobby is expanding overall. The issue for S is that the vast majority of new blood is coming into HO and N. That is why I think it is imperative for S companies to get their products in front of people at HO and N shows. Props to the NASG btw... They try very hard. It was good to see them present at the Nat'l show.

 

Of course this is all from the perspective of someone who wants to see S grow. I fully recognize that a large portion of S modelers are very happy with the status quo (and several have told me so). I think S can be a place where some people go to "hide" because it has built-in excuses. Just my opinion of course.

 

 

-Jonathan

 

I understand the 'It will not sell so we're not going to make it'  argument. But there is more than just an opinion behind that logic. Before I started working in the plastic field I always said 'If you make a 1977 Thunderbird coupe Limited Edition kit it will sell'.  I always got the 'it will not sell' back. And after doing work in the field, seeing inside sales figures and returns, pre-orders etc.....I understand better the 'NO' answer as educated decision and not a product manager just raining on my parade. Since MTH is privately held, like many hobby companies, sales, profit, loss and cost are only known to a few....and if they tell you they will not be working there long.

 

99.9% of the time there is good logic behind that 'NO'.

Just IMHO only!!!!! 

Most of the time in model railroading it isn't that something new won't sell, it's more about looking for the "sure" thing. The rationale for figuring out the "sure" thing is often interesting, but there are certain "holy grail" items in model railroading. Believe it or not, the UP "Big Boy" 4-8-8-4 is one of them... and that's why we will see many more versions of that locomotive in every scale during my lifetime.

 

The Alco PA is another--if Alco had been as successful with the real PA as the numerous scale models they may well have survived into the present day. In current models, the SD70aCE seems to be the sure thing, as everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

 

I'm not sure the 1977 T-Birds fit that category.

 

 

 

Jeff C

Originally Posted by leikec:
I'm not sure the 1977 T-Birds fit that category.

 

 

 

Jeff C

You are 100% correct about 'The sure thing'. Margins are so slim, budgets so tight each hit, right now, needs to be a home run! An unfortunate truth today. If this was 1950 with every hardware store, toy store and hobby shop ordering a few of whatever was new....maybe take a chance...after all 2 units for each store....you're OK!

Just not true today....gotta be a hit right off the bat....lots of pre-orders and buzz!

 

Oh....and that 77 Thunderbird....I wrote a really good proposal for it. Explaining all the how and whys. It was all logical IF IT WORKED......but as not a sure hit....no go!!

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×