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This weekend (Lake City, SC) will be the first train show I attend where I actually "know" what I'm doing (and I use the word "know" loosely ... I'm still a danger to myself). Oldest kiddo will be tagging along (but he's three, so he won't be in the mood to rummage), so I need to plan acordingly.  I made a "shopping list" which comprises mostly of trucks, wheel sets, tubular track, lock on's, etc that I know I could use/would be great to have on hand.  I figured I wasn't going to buy a locomotive - unless the price was absolutely right, and if I could see it in action - but rolling stock may be in the cards if I find something I absolutely feel I need.

When you go to train shows, what do you look for in particular, and do you have any "rules of engagement" when trying to make a deal? As someone who isn't intimately familar with the hobby, I don't want to get taken for a ride, but likewise I don't want to come to a dealer with an insultingly low offer either.

All thoughts welcome.

Last edited by Rich Melvin
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Hi Deuce:

All the train shows in my area will have a test track for all scales.  If the seller has a locomotive you want to purchase, ask the seller if you can take the loco to the Show's Test Track.  If the seller is not interested in having you test the locomotive.  Walk away........

Train Shows always have great "Hot Dogs for Lunch" • New York City Street Water

Gary

First, have an idea of specific items you want to look for.  It's perfectly fine to get there and look at everything, but that can be dangerous if you're just going to find anything (I've done that, and found too many things I wanted badly!)  Going with an objective is sometimes a good thing to do, in that it adds to the thrill of the hunt for what you need.

When you see what you want, find the dealer if he/she isn't right there and ask about it, even general questions about operation, etc.  Sometimes right then they'll see your interest and knock a few dollars off.  If not, it's still easier to work a deal if you've started a conversation about the item.  Found a Flyer O Prewar Hudson and the dealer knocked $100.00 off because we were talking a bit about it and he saw my genuine interest in it.  But that was his call to knock so much off.  Usually I'm offering a little less than the tagged price, in the $5.00 to $10.00 range, depending on price.

To me, from being both a dealer with my father at shows and also as a buyer at shows, working deals goes beautifully with a nice, friendly conversation with the dealer or buyer.  You strike up a rapport and sometimes they'll even keep an eye out for things you've been looking for and hold it for a future show, to see if you want it!

With a 3 year old to manage, I think shopping at the same time will be difficult. You might consider taking help like a wife or grandmother someone that isn't interested in trains themselves.

If you go this alone be prepared for potty accident clean up, have food and drink with you for the youngster and yourself, young children are not really up to cruising  large train shows expect to do a lot of child carrying. The excitement of a child at these shows soon gives way to grumpy exhaustion, you will have to cover the difference a child can't.

Been there, done that. More than once!!!

Bogie

Some very good suggestions so far.  One point I would like to make is about food.  The Greenbergs shows that I have attended, Oaks, Pa., and Edison, N J, have food that I would not feed to pigs !   Add to that ridiculously high prices.  The one show I did attend that had good food at fair prices was, Greenbergs I think , down in Delaware two years ago.

As for bringing your three year old, I'll pray for you.....LOL

Thanks folks for all the advice so far. Fortunately, having lived with my three year old for ... well, his entire life  ... I've come to be a bit familar with his limitations. It's a short drive to the show, and I imagine we'll spend a lot of time looking at the running trains. That will keep his interest for a bit. As we're walking between setup's, I'll have to keep alert for potential buys.  I know I won't be able to delve deep into junk bins or the like, but it is what it is. Show opens at 9, ends at 3. I figure I can get him to last from 10 to 11:30/noon. I'll bring a stroller and hope he nods off ... if so, I'll be good until around 1 to 1:30 which should be enough time for me to hit my list hard.

If there is a riding train at this show, I'll have an even shorter amount of time to shop at the show because that's all he'll talk about and beg me to do ... and once that's done he'll want to leave. 

Asked the wife if she wanted to go, and that was a big no. That's fine ... he and I usually do weekend errand runs (to Home Depot, and the like) where it's our time to hang out. This will be another one of those times. I plan on keeping my expectations low, and my hopes high. I'll report back and let you all know how I fared! Wish me luck!

First, bring cash. Seller's are far more willing to "dicker" for cash.

Second, familiarize yourself with the prices that the items you are looking for are generally going for by checking dealer's on-line and sales prices, e-bay, etc. At least you'll have a general idea of what things go for. I've seen many sellers at train shows asking more than what retail dealers are selling for.

Third, if it's a large enough show (York, Amherst, etc.), print out their diagram of where all the major dealers will be located and plan a route of where you want to start and finish so you're not wasting time. Also, if you see something you might like and want to go back later, make sure you write down where that seller is located. Nothing worse than running around trying to remember which aisle that seller was in.

Fourth, don't be afraid of making too low of an offer or "insulting" a seller - that rarely happens. It's not war out there and I'm always friendly, but you're trying to get something at the best price you can and so is the seller (see #2, above). There's no worse feeling than buying something and then finding out the guy in the next aisle over has the same thing for less money. Since you already have a pretty good idea of what the item should be selling for because you did your homework, I usually start by asking what the seller is asking for the item (even if it's marked) just to get the conversation going. I then typically start talking about the item and saying that his/her figure seems high because (it's old; it's too new; everybody's trying to get rid of them; they produced too many of them ; it's damaged/blemished; they're not popular, etc. - whatever seems right) and tell them I'd be willing to pay $xxxxx for the item, in cash. The $xxxxx figure I start with is generally about 2/3 to 75% of what the seller was asking and possibly less, especially for used and dirty rolling stock. If they agree, we've got a deal. If they say they can't take that amount or go that low, I then ask what the lowest price is they'd be willing to take. If the figure seems right to me, I'll make the deal. If not, I'll tell them I can't pay that much and make another cash offer slightly higher than my first and see what happens. It then goes back and forth on pretty much the same basis until we either get to a deal or not. I also don't nit-pick over a few dollars - it's not going to break me one way or the other, especially if I really want the item. A lot of people don't feel right or adept at "dickering", but it never hurts to try - even in retail store settings, like the big box stores. You'd be amazed on what deals you can get. If it's something you don't feel good at - practice a conversation in your head and start with a seller on something small and get the hang of it. Have fun with it - no pressure. Don't forget - as a buyer, you've got the upper hand - you don't have to buy it and can just walk away - but the seller has to lug it home w/o getting any money if he/she can't make a deal.  

Fifth, don't be afraid to walk away if you can't make a deal. On the other hand, if it's that prized possession you've been looking for and it's reasonably priced try "dickering" and, if it doesn't work out, don't be afraid to buy it.

Just my $ .02  

 

Heck, I loved taking my two boys to shows when they were little. I’d work the tables, they’d work the boxes under the table and find all sorts of cool, cheap stuff. 

I tend to do shows as a reason to leave the house, I go to the train store for specific needs. I just like to wander around and see what attracts me. If I like something, but am unsure of the value, I will scan the table for something I am familiar with, and see how it is priced. If it is way too high, I will usually just walk away. 

 As for negotiating, I am getting better at it. I have followed the American Pickers advice and tried bundling a few times, and had good results. Of course, it pays to be friendly, and not act like you are doing the guy a favor.

RoyBoy posted:

Make sure the little one knows not to grab things off the tables. Some sellers do not like that.

Some sellers don't like it when "big ones" grab things off their table as well.  Always ask before touching anything on a table other than the price tag (which are invariably upside down).

I think everyone else has given you pretty good advice.  

I would add that you might purchase your son the first $2 freight car you see on a table, the earlier in the show, the better.  If you see a seller with one of those "$5 for anything in the box" set ups (be sure to look under tables for these), haggle with the guy, get him down to $2-3, and let your son be the one to pick out the exact item he wants.  The item will then 1) be "his", and 2) be something that he can hold, play with, drop, leave behind, etc. without causing too much of an issue (financial or otherwise).

Most of all, enjoy it.

Steven J. Serenska

banjoflyer posted:
Don't be surprised to find out later that your "treasure" could have been had for less somewhere else. Maybe the next aisle over. That's OK. It happens to everyone. You can try for a "sprint" around the whole show first looking for the best deals but that usually ends up with the best deal being had by another buyer by the time you get back to that table.

This is true!  I've lost more than one item because I decided to "think it over" while I cruised the hall, checking to see what else could be had.  And not just train shows.

I used to sell items at train shows in the past. Some of my suggestions are:

Get there early. I would often sell many items to other dealers before the show would start. I have had other dealers watch over my shoulder I unloaded items. It seems as though many of the best deals go fairly quick.

Be nice. You would be suprised at how many buyers show up with an attitude. I gave a bigger discount to those who were friendly. I agree with a previous post that while it is OK to haggle, I would not make an offer which is insulting to the seller. If you irritate the seller, you are less likely to get the best deal. There were times when I refused to lower my price when the buyer was obnoxious.

Even though I said to get there early, you also may also want to come back later in the day. I had been at shows where the crowds were sparse and the dealers weren't selling enough to pay for their tables. At the end of the day, they were willing to settle for a lower price just to make some money.

If you walk away from an item you like, it may be gone by the time you go back.

Have fun.

 

 

Serenska posted:
RoyBoy posted:

Make sure the little one knows not to grab things off the tables. Some sellers do not like that.

Some sellers don't like it when "big ones" grab things off their table as well.  Always ask before touching anything on a table other than the price tag (which are invariably upside down).

I think everyone else has given you pretty good advice.  

I would add that you might purchase your son the first $2 freight car you see on a table, the earlier in the show, the better.  If you see a seller with one of those "$5 for anything in the box" set ups (be sure to look under tables for these), haggle with the guy, get him down to $2-3, and let your son be the one to pick out the exact item he wants.  The item will then 1) be "his", and 2) be something that he can hold, play with, drop, leave behind, etc. without causing too much of an issue (financial or otherwise).

Most of all, enjoy it.

Steven J. Serenska

I get a real kick out of those sellers who don't like their stuff touched.  They place things right up to the edge of the table and expect little hands not to be inquisitive.  You cannot always blame the parents, but some, do not have any respect for the property of others.  Furthermore, with stuff so close to the table edge, just walking by, particularly with a coat on, things can get knocked off.  

 

"If you walk away from an item you like, it may be gone by the time you go back."

I certainly enjoy a train show, even a small one, because it's a train show. Like the sports geeks who go to "sports bars" to be around other sports geeks.

But I have missed numerous items at shows because I had to "think about it" - and these aren't always big-ticket items. "I have too much stuff..." You are young; you do not have "too much stuff" yet. I am also just not an impulse buyer by nature - and sometimes you need to be.

I have friend who is just the opposite - he will buy everything in sight - he never misses anything, but, gee, he has a house full, still in the boxes...

Point is - it can be a balancing act between seeing an opportunity/deal, and not being discriminating enough - "why did I buy this thing...?".

I still go by the idea, when I can: "When in doubt, don't - at least 'Don't' is free".

I have met a great bunch of guys at York (about the only show I go to). I'll just walk up and start talking to them be it in the dealer halls or the member halls. If they don't seem like they want to talk then I move on. I was walking in the Orange Hall last October and Steve from Mr. Muffin walked up an shook my hand. We have chatted before, but I thought it was cool he remembered me. 

Bravo for taking your boy with you, your going to have a blast.  Do, take cash, cash rules. Don't, leave without buying something.

I'm guessing you'll have this next one covered but thought I mention it anyway. Do, take a shower and brush your teeth before leaving the house for a show. I can't tell you how many shows I've been to where some smelly/stinky people think it's ok to attend that haven't bathed for a week and/or are wearing last weeks clothes. I'll leave the crop dusting topic for another thread.

I usually try to do a lap of its a small show but if it’s big, take your time look at items, these guys are right, items go quick.  

I attend a lot of “selling” with my grandfather and he cringes when people start grabbing stuff (expensive stuff like prestige locos on display) without asking first.

If you get there near the end some “good stuff” may be gone but sellers may be more apt to cut deals because honesty, would you want to re-pack everything and take it back home?  I’ve obtained some deal so near the ending shows.  Although some shows I go to have 50 tables or less (which I consider a good show)

Duece, Hey looks like you are a Mets fan so right off the bat (!) you you must be very patient and cerebral! 

Lots of good advice. I would emphasize doing your homework ahead of time. Try to figure out ahead of time what you want to concentrate on...prewar, postwar, modern stuff...steam, diesel...what railroads are you interested in, etc. Lots of bargains in prewar and postwar stuff nowadays. 

Then, look on eBay at current and completed listings to see what you actually like and what prices they are going for or what they may have sold for. Write it out on a legal pad so you remember what you are looking for and what things have sold for recently. 

Early as others said is a good thing as far as more items being available (vs. being sold out), but towards the end of the day you may get better price reductions. Having said that, I prefer the beginning of the day. 

I like tubular track too...some shows (like everything else) can be hit or miss. You can sometimes find a nice box of tubular track at a bargain or just as easily find an overpriced box of track. I've bought several boxes of tubular track on eBay and have not had any trouble. 

Good luck and let us know how you do.

Tom 

 

I find that by asking a few questions and making a little small talk I can get an idea what the seller wants for their items and that grouping a few together they will go lower than they would normally for one item only.  I also am honest with them and let them know if they are way too low on an item or two, I am not out to take advantage of anyone, just get a fair to good price.

Never walk away from a failed buy attempt without leaving your business card or at least cell phone number, sometimes they call me later in the day when they realize they are not going to get their asking price.

If you are selling and see a kid, just give them a cheap car or item. Makes them and their parents happy and frequently they will thoroughly check out my for sale items.

Chris Sheldon

Few things I'll add/add to:

- if the prices on a table are sky-high (esp for Post War, tubular track, accessories, buildings), just look and walk away, seller's not gonna come down anywhere near reality and there's no sense wasting your time trying and getting frustrated.

- Assuming you have a smartphone, don't hesitate to step around a corner out of table-sight and quick check the 'bay for going rates on an item you're uncertain about price-wise.  I've saved myself considerable regret over time, both on great buys and too-high prices.

- Don't nickel 'n dime a seller on individual items if there's multiple items you got your eye on.  If the offer response on the first item is in the acceptable range, hold onto it and start bundling, then make an offer on the pile.  When I've infrequently sold stuff I've always been more willing to deal on a pile that I won't have to haul back, and less when steadily hammered with multiple single offers.

- Always make offers a little below your limit to give room for negotiation, but don't make insanely lowball ones, that's just rude, see the first comment.  

- Do keep an eye on the young'un as they have a habit of grabbing to show you something, and that is rude to the seller even though that's not the kid's intention.

- While small talk can grease the skids, be aware of the crowd size.  A seller trying to watch their tables may not be amenable to yakking when a crowd is around.  On the flip side, I've walked away from tables where the seller was deep in conversation and not paying any attention to the tables or potential buyers.

- Most of all be sure to have fun, and that goes double for the kid.  I'm gonna try and catch a show in Memphis next month, and I'm less concerned with finding/buying a bunch of stuff than just getting out and enjoying the show.

 

I've been taking my grandson to trains shows from shortly after he turned two... he's going to turn four in a few weeks. I've never really had any problems with him at the shows. From early on he was told not to touch anything without asking me and/or the seller, and he has done that always (very seldom asks, mostly is very content to look, oooh and aaah). Most of the time I will get him something that we've talked about before the show, or if we see something there, and usually it isn't right away... he gets the idea of we might see more of them and maybe a nicer one. There are times too where a seller will give him a Matchbox car or truck or something, once he was given a $5.00 caboose just because we chatted with the seller and his wife for a while. yeah, I did end up buying a couple of tanker cars from them.

We mostly go to the monthly DuPage show, and our usual visit time is about 2-3 hours. So far, he has never asked to leave early. I usually bring some snacks in zip-lock bags, and some juice and/or water for him. A couple times that my wife and daughter have come with, they've bought ice cream at the show, but if he's just with me he doesn't ask.

Have fun!!

While I wander about in these shows and get to a table, should I be able to get the seller's attention I try to make a point to complement at least one or two items on their table, it could be anything, it just helps to get the conversation going.   

I also carry small bills in my pocket and big bills in my wallet, helps to avoid the "I just negotiated with you a bunch but have plenty of money" kind of feeling.  And yes, I negotiate on all purchases.  I try to be respectful, most times it goes fine, other times the seller seems to just want to show their stuff and not sell it.

If you take pictures, be sure to ask the seller if it's OK first.  I've seen some unique stuff over the years and wanted to capture them in pictures, but some sellers don't like the idea, can't hurt to ask.

Good luck, have fun, and buy what you like, you can always sell it here on the forum or on the bay later if needed!

I've been to my fair share of shows, on both sides of the table.  Whether at a big show, small show, on the Internet auction sites, club Interchange Tracks or OGR For Sale listings, the listed price is probably negotiable.  Maybe not on one item, but if you bundle three or four items and offer a reasonable price that will certainly get the seller's attention and he/she will more than likely enter price negotiations with you. John in Lansing, ILL

Last edited by rattler21
palallin posted:

When my boys were young, I tried to separate "seeing" shows with them from "buying" shows without them.  EVERYBODY was happier.

This is a great tactic. I am lucky that the local Greenberg's is close by. I'll do one visit with my 3+ year-old, usually about an hour or just a bit longer, and then another for myself. Sometimes on the same day, sometimes one visit on Saturday and the other on Sunday.

Lots of good advice already given.

*I'm always friendly no matter if I'm the buyer or the seller. 

*I've been on the  selling and buying ( buying more so than selling )  end of things many times.  When selling I've never minded the insanely low ball price from a potential buyer .... because I have done the same when I have my buyer hat on. On several occasions , while making very low ball offers,  I've gotten some really fabulous deals on items.... a brand new ( never run ) Lionel MPC set of RDCs ( 3 RDC cars, never run in box) for $50., a brand new Williams set of Powathan Arrow passenger cars ( 5 cars never run in box ) $50., Scale Lionel tank cars with pro weathering $8.00 each, a K-line scale Pullman dining car $20. new never run ( but no box. ).   On the other hand as a seller I've given folks some fabulous deals as well.  Hey .... we all deserve to be happy with our trains!  Right?  Everyone deserves to get a bargain once in a while

* Always haggle.  Usually the seller can do better than the price shown on their price tag.  If you don't ask you will never know if you could have purchased something you really like for a lower price.... or not.  Sometimes I've asked a seller if there is any room to negotiate and I've been told politely "no".  I'm fine with that answer, for at least I asked.  

*As Trainroom Gary pointed out  .... always check locomotives/motorized units on a test track BEFORE you purchase from a buyer.  I've taken locomotives to test tracks and the locomotive was DOA.... needless to say I didn't purchase.  One seller even tried to blame the dead engine on the test track transformer even as other engines were being tested and running well.  If at all possible also test operating cars and/or accessories too.  Don't take a sellers word for it not unless you "know" the seller and have a way for them of making good on your purchase. 

* FOOD at train shows - You may want to consider packing your own.  Every train show that I attend ( York, Timonium, Md., and some small community shows ) really has grossly over priced artery clogging, sodium/sugar laden crap. .... at least that is my opinion.  I don't mind paying good money for good food, however, good food is not to be found at train shows ... at least at the ones I attend.  ( They all do sell spring water though )  I usually pack a sandwich, some almonds, an energy bar/ water, in a small pack. ( I tend to stay long hours at train shows    I feel better physically at the end of the day after eating the healthier food.  Save the excess money spent on train show food and instead buy trains ...  Just saying!

* At train shows, as in the rest of life, we run into those vendors/sellers who are unfriendly/grumpy and just don't seem to want to sell anything to us.  When I get this vibe from them I am quick to move on, even when they may have an item that I want.  I'd rather pay a few bucks more and purchase the item from someone who has a pleasant attitude OR purchase it from someone here on the Forum OR on the Bay.  

Good luck and above all have FUN at your first show.  That's why we're in this hobby ... to have FUN!

 

 

 

Last edited by trumptrain

Something else that just came to mind.  I've been to train meets, both as a seller and buyer, as some others here have.  I always keep a pleasant attitude.  I like talking about trains but try to keep my conversations to a minimum.  Why, because I am not the center of the universe.  There have been times, seems more often than not, that as a buyer I am interested in something on a table.  Looking around I notice the seller is engaged with another buyer.  That's fine, everyone likes to talk.  However, I have been in situations where the seller is giving his or her life history to someone and does not even come up for air and look to see if there is anyone else browsing their stuff.  

As Patrick W. pointed out in the last post, there seem to be Grinches at every train meet, sitting in front of their table looking like someone just stole their lolly pop.  Me, being a pleasant sort of chap, will ask them a question about an item I may be interested in.  These people are the last to haggle and most times I don't try.  I just don't get it.  If you don't want to interact with other humans then sell your stuff on line.  

Dan Padova posted:

Something else that just came to mind.  I've been to train meets, both as a seller and buyer, as some others here have.  I always keep a pleasant attitude.  I like talking about trains but try to keep my conversations to a minimum.  Why, because I am not the center of the universe.  There have been times, seems more often than not, that as a buyer I am interested in something on a table.  Looking around I notice the seller is engaged with another buyer.  That's fine, everyone likes to talk.  However, I have been in situations where the seller is giving his or her life history to someone and does not even come up for air and look to see if there is anyone else browsing their stuff.  

As Patrick W. pointed out in the last post, there seem to be Grinches at every train meet, sitting in front of their table looking like someone just stole their lolly pop.  Me, being a pleasant sort of chap, will ask them a question about an item I may be interested in.  These people are the last to haggle and most times I don't try.  I just don't get it.  If you don't want to interact with other humans then sell your stuff on line.  

This happened to me last weekend.  This buyer was chatting the seller up and the seller saw me and knew I was going to buy something. I walked around the table row 2 times (about 5minutes or so) needless to say I got annoyed and he missed out on a sale ( not the sellers fault but he was engaged in the conversation as well).   I went over to another table where a very kind gentleman was and let me tell you he was ready to sell. He had the bag ready in hand and would engage everyone if you had questions.  I witnessed him cut a smoking deal on a used but fair engine for a guy.  I’ve met grinches before, they usually don’t get my money.  I come from “treat others as you like to be treated”

I don’t usually haggle but when I do you should realize when to walk away.  The worst they can say is no, and as others say bundling is a great option.  Just like frank from the pickers on tv, bundling works!

Last edited by dangerwildmike
GPJ posted:

Few things I'll add/add to:

- if the prices on a table are sky-high (esp for Post War, tubular track, accessories, buildings), just look and walk away, seller's not gonna come down anywhere near reality and there's no sense wasting your time trying and getting frustrated.

- Assuming you have a smartphone, don't hesitate to step around a corner out of table-sight and quick check the 'bay for going rates on an item you're uncertain about price-wise.  I've saved myself considerable regret over time, both on great buys and too-high prices.

I would echo GPJ's first point above - and this was my biggest learning when I started attending shows again a couple of years ago.  There are definitely two groups of sellers: ones who are actually trying to sell things, and others who are running a portable museum.  Although that's not really accurate - as museums have rare, high-quality items.  The latter are instead typically peddling well-worn or common items at completely unrealistic prices and tend not to like to be disturbed in their delusion.  Rather than try and explain that their #50 Gang Car is worth closer to $20 than $80, I just move on to the next table.  Don't worry if you later change your mind - it'll be there next show.  And the one after that.

To his second: eBay's completed/sold listings is the real measure of today's market value - let it be your guide as to what really is a fair price range.

As for how to handle the LO:   I tell my 4YO he can get one item - but that we need to see everything to "find the best one" so we save making the purchase (and keep him interested and on the prowl) until we're about ready to leave.

D500 posted:

"If you walk away from an item you like, it may be gone by the time you go back."

I certainly enjoy a train show, even a small one, because it's a train show. Like the sports geeks who go to "sports bars" to be around other sports geeks.

But I have missed numerous items at shows because I had to "think about it" - and these aren't always big-ticket items. "I have too much stuff..." You are young; you do not have "too much stuff" yet. I am also just not an impulse buyer by nature - and sometimes you need to be.

I have friend who is just the opposite - he will buy everything in sight - he never misses anything, but, gee, he has a house full, still in the boxes...

Point is - it can be a balancing act between seeing an opportunity/deal, and not being discriminating enough - "why did I buy this thing...?".

I still go by the idea, when I can: "When in doubt, don't - at least 'Don't' is free".Walking away from a item at a good price has happened many times. I got a lot better with this, years of experience. If you are familiar with the condition and the asking price, shoot a offer. If the seller takes it great if not be prepared to walk. For me nothing on the bottom grade items are scarce and do pop up. I use eBay to help learn about prices. I watch the items that I’m interested in and see what they sell for. Remember to add the shipping cost for the total item cost. Also use a buyer guide to help get in the ball park price.

Sellers- clearly price your stuff...if there is no marked price, I keep moving unless it's something I just can't live without...and that hasn't happened yet

when you take your bathroom break, have someone watch your stuff that is helpful...not the teen that obviously doesn't want to be there and can't take their eyes off that electronic box in their hand to acknowledge someone

and if you're busy talking to someone (customer/buddy) at least look at me and say you'll be right with me

Buyers-be respectful....handle items carefully

do your homework...and sometimes you need to walk away for a bit, I've been doing this at car and train shows for 30 years.....most of the time I find a better deal, sometimes I miss it and and to keep looking, but the world hasn't stopped yet

main thing is as long as both sides are happy with a deal then all is well.and have fun.

and please excuse the idiot on the floor going thru the junk boxes...it's probably just me.

Last edited by Steamer

Get there early...preferably while dealers are setting up as there's a unwritten rule that sellers must accept the first offer of they day otherwise they risk jinxing themselves and will have a poor sales day

I've never been to a public train show where the buyers could get in during dealer setup time.
York used to have a "shotgun start" where everybody went in together, but that was done away with a number of years ago.
The NETCA show used to do the same.

Good for you bringing your 3 year old.  if there are any operating layouts, go there first, let the little one watch for a bit.  I second the buy something inexpensive for him.  Then you can walk the tables easily.  Be careful if it is crowded, little faces then only get to see a whole lot of adult posteriors. Ugh.  If he gets tired, visit the operating layout again and respect him if he gets tired.  My adult sons still share train show stories and it was a way to give Mom a break for a few hours.  

Well the first rule of hand is to absolutely do your homework and know what your looking at and its approximate value. That's the only way to keep from making a mistake besides having someone with you that has that knowledge. Its fine to have a priority list of things to pick up. I always found that when I made the list, nothing on it was at the show. :-( Just keep your eyes open and look. If you find something and the price is right, and you need it or could use it, buy it then and there as it will be gone when you try to go for it later. If you know a price os too high and are afraid of insulting the seller, leave them tell you how low they will go. You see a loco priced at $100 that you know is worth $65. Don't offer $65 as the seller what is their best cash price. Leave them tell you. If they say $75 that's a good mark down and you'll have to consider taking it. But i they say $95 just thank them and move on.

Tin

Casey Jones2 posted:

Get there early...preferably while dealers are setting up as there's a unwritten rule that sellers must accept the first offer of they day otherwise they risk jinxing themselves and will have a poor sales day.  

As a seller, I found that buyers who were in too early were a real PITA.  Here I am trying to make my table look presentable and there's a guy asking me about every item that I haven't yet taken out of the boxes.  Also, other sellers come around trying to get a great deal so they can go and resell it themselves.  That's fine, just not while I'm setting up.  

There's "early" and then too early! If someone is shopping while a vendor is setting up, from the shows I have done, I would say they must be a fellow vendor and they should be a little more understanding. Luckily, I never had that problem...I only deal in books/paper, so the excitement level is only so high! 

Tom 

Dan Padova posted:
Casey Jones2 posted:

Get there early...preferably while dealers are setting up as there's a unwritten rule that sellers must accept the first offer of they day otherwise they risk jinxing themselves and will have a poor sales day.  

As a seller, I found that buyers who were in too early were a real PITA.  Here I am trying to make my table look presentable and there's a guy asking me about every item that I haven't yet taken out of the boxes.  Also, other sellers come around trying to get a great deal so they can go and resell it themselves.  That's fine, just not while I'm setting up.  

That seems sort of ... wrong. At least if they're selling it at the same show.

That seems sort of ... wrong. At least if they're selling it at the same show.

Some people (table holders) are bothered by fellow table holders buying trains from them only to immediately put the item on their table at a higher price.
Never bothered me. I got my price, if they want to carry the item from show to show, then that is their privilege.  And if I did make a mistake on pricing, that is on me.
What I do find annoying is fellow table holders who always are looking to dicker when buying, but won't give an inch on something they have that you want.

I've been in the hobby for 28 years and this thread has been nothing short of illuminating.  From suggestions on personal hygiene to negotiating tips and diet recommendations, I think just about everything has been covered short of make sure you have a full tank of gas and a fresh oil change.

Seriously; in all this time I've been attending train shows I had no idea there were this many unofficial rules.  We have a show coming up in Atlanta the 20th and I'm already debating whether I need to stay up late the night before to study and commit all these rules to memory.

To the OP; go to the show with your son; enjoy your time together and don't try to turn train show attendance into rocket science.  This is a hobby and supposed to be fun, for Gods sake!

Curt

PS:  Sorry for the sarcasm but geez...

My advice would be wear proper footwear does not matter if it's a small show or a larger show your feet will thank you the next day. Drink plenty of water and stay hydrated and of course bring cash cash is King at any show. Above all have fun with your son. From all the advice so far that had been posted there could be a book written haha. Hope you and your son have a great time at the show.

Last edited by Khayden93

Figure out how much you want/can spend, put that amount in your wallet plus a little extra. Wear comfortable shoes and clothing, clear your mind and go with the idea that it is all for fun. Sometimes I've waited and watched an item and other times(like the last one) I thought "I want that" and went whole hog.  Sometimes you win, other times-not so much but better than a casino.

Our simple strategy is to "circle the block" doing a quick look over of stuff.  If I see a must have, I usually buy it then even though a better deal is next aisle over, because if its exactly what I need, then I may regret it returning to the vendor just to see a hole on the table.

Wife and I attend together  and have a list.  We have those two way talkies which saves time dialing up cell phones.  And if she see something she has my blessing to spend the money.  We go with a set amount and when its spent, we're done.  Most times we have money left over which goes for refilling the gas and maybe lunch out.

But your train show strategy mileage may vary.

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I like to wear these shirts on my YT Channel, at RR Meetings, Train Shows and out Rail-fanning

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My suggestion, wear a train shirt. It can become a conversation starter. There is a company in my home state of Michigan that sells these types of shirts. (Click here to learn more)

There will be local shows: Jan. 14, 2018. •  Feb. 11, 2018 •  March 11, 2018  •  April 8, 2018  - Wolverine Railroad Club Toy Train Show.    •    http://www.ttoswolverine.org/   

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Do:

  • Be honest with your spouse about your trains.
  • Set a budget and bring cash.
  • Eat something before  you go to the meet
  • Wear comfortable shoes.
  • Keeping the first rule in mind, come up with outrageous stories of how you sneak trains in as this "fishing story" thread pops up from time to time and you're obligated to participate.
  • Be judicious in your shopping -- don't buy it if you can't use it.

 

Don't:

  • Go overboard on purchases
  • Grab the first thing you see
  • Use credit cards. Controls your spending.
rrman posted:

Our simple strategy is to "circle the block" doing a quick look over of stuff.  If I see a must have, I usually buy it then even though a better deal is next aisle over, because if its exactly what I need, then I may regret it returning to the vendor just to see a hole on the table.

 

Good advice and quite true! I found this neat (circa 1910) PENN porcelain subway sign around a year ago...I picked it up, put it down, someone else picked it up looked at it and then put it down...and I was lucky. It was the only one there and basically in immaculate condition. Now one of my favorite signs which I have, it would have really bothered me for a long time if I was not able to get it...

Tom 

WIN_20170129_19_56_02_Pro

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Dan Padova posted:

Some very good suggestions so far.  One point I would like to make is about food.  The Greenbergs shows that I have attended, Oaks, Pa., and Edison, N J, have food that I would not feed to pigs !   Add to that ridiculously high prices.  The one show I did attend that had good food at fair prices was, Greenbergs I think , down in Delaware two years ago.

As for bringing your three year old, I'll pray for you.....LOL

Go to their Wilmington, MA show - great food there, the concession is run by a local farm outfit.

These comments are for a serious buying train meet

Make a wanted list.  Put your top 5 or so must have or wanted/needed list on top.  Add other items you would like to have to the bottom of the list.

Take a large light weight backpack.  Include pencil, paper for notes, tape measure, camera or phone as a camera, one or two large open net bags about the size of a pillow case to hold big items or overflow and be tied on the outside of the backpack.  Carry several plastic bags to hold cars to keep them from rubbing together in the BP.  Carry an apple, granola bars, etc. and bottle water to keep from wasting time with those needs.  My wife often drops me off and goes shopping so I have to carry all my loot thought out the show.

Go early as possible, stand in line to be up front if necessary.  Look in to the show space if possible to spot dealers and layout.  If you have been before seek out dealers you know and that have stuff you may like.  Make a quick tour of show, scouting, if not really big.  Work your list from the top.  Remember often there is only one of the item you may be looking for and the early one gets first shot.  If you find or see some item you may be interested in pick it up and look it over and think it over.  I have had others beat me to an item by picking it up first and he is control to make his decision.

Be friendly and smile and talk to everyoneAsk sellers and other buyers at the table if they have or have seen what you are wanting.  Often you miss seeing it or it could be under the table or not on the tables due to space.  Look at boxes under tables.  Lots of fix um ups or items for parts are there.

After you have gone to all tables, go again as you probably missed lots of stuff you may be interested in.  I find I miss stuff I wind up getting after 4 or 5 trips around the show.  I have often found my best item not really looking for it but just giving an item a chance to grow on me or give me time to figure out how it might fit on the layout or add to the collection.  Do not over look train books, magazines and catalogs, paint, tools, train parts, decals, trucks, wheels, etc.

Go late to the show.  I have found many dealers will almost beg you to take some items real cheap just so he does not have to take it home.  I have gotten a few great deals in the last hour of a 3 - 4 hour show or of a two day local show that I returned to at the end.  If leaving, it helps to keep the original ticket as they may let you return a second time (ask) or day with the original ticket (works usually at small local shows, not big commercially run ones).

I have gotten 90 plus percent of my train gear for the layout and cars, engines and accessories at train shows and meets. 

Years ago I ask if dealers at a show if they had any Marx 1590 switches and one fellow said he had 20 or so at home and said he would ship them and give them to me if I paid the postage.  I was excited to get them and he was glad to get them to someone who would use them.

Charlie

Last edited by Choo Choo Charlie
Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Buy what you want. Enjoy.

Hi Marty.  I am brand new to this forum, and I hope I am not crossing any forbidden boundaries to ask a MTH  engine question.  My GP9 engine has fo4gott3n what to do when you power it up.  It does make the engine idle sounds but will not go forward or backward, or ring bell or horn.  Is this something I can fix with some help, or should it go to the shop?  Thanks.

Choo Choo Charlie posted:

For a buying train meet, make a wanted list.  Put your top 5 or so must have or wanted/needed list on top.  Add other items you would like to have to the bottom of the list.

Take a large light weight backpack.  Include pencil, paper for notes, tape measure, camera or phone as a camera, one or two large open net bags about the size of a pillow case to hold big items or overflow and be tied on the outside of the backpack.  Carry several plastic bags to hold cars to keep them from rubbing together in the BP.  Carry an apple, granola bars, etc. and bottle water to keep from wasting time with those needs.  My wife often drops me off and goes shopping so I have to carry all my loot thought out the show.

Go early as possible, stand in line to be up front if necessary.  Look in to the show space if possible to spot dealers and layout.  If you have been before seek out dealers you know and that have stuff you may like.  Make a quick tour of show, scouting, if not really big.  Work your list from the top.  Remember often there is only one of the item you may be looking for and the early one gets first shot.  If you find or see some item you may be interested in pick it up and look it over and think it over.  I have had others beat me to an item by picking it up first and he is control to make his decision.

Be friendly and smile and talk to everyone.  Ask sellers and other buyers at the table if they have or have seen what you are wanting.  Often you miss seeing it or it could be under the table or not on the tables due to space.  Look at boxes under tables.  Lots of fix um ups or items for parts are there.

After you have gone to all tables, go again as you probably missed lots of stuff you may be interested in.  I find I miss stuff I wind up getting after 4 or 5 trips around the show.  I have often found my best item not really looking for it but just giving an item a chance to grow on me or give me time to figure out how it might fit on the layout or add to the collection.  Do not over look train books, magazines and catalogs, paint, tools, train parts, decals, trucks, wheels, etc.

Go late to the show.  I have found many dealers will almost beg you to take some items real cheap just so he does not have to take it home.  I have gotten a few great deals in the last hour of a 3 - 4 hour show or of a two day local show that I returned to at the end.  If leaving, it helps to keep the original ticket as they may let you return a second time (ask) or day with the original ticket (works usually at small local shows, not big commercially run ones).

I have gotten 90 plus percent of my train gear for the layout and cars, engines and accessories at train shows. 

Years ago I ask if dealers at a show if they had any Marx 1590 switches and one fellow said he had 20 or so at home and said he would ship them and give them to me if I paid the postage.  I was excited to get them and he was glad to get them to someone who would use them.

Charlie

My God Charley he asked for some advice not torture him. April will be my 67th straight York and if I followed your advice I would have quit after my first show.

I go to train shows with no lists, no pencil no back packs, no bags. I may know what I'm interested in but don't always stick to it. The whole point is to have fun and look for items that fit your railroad. 

Btw get to the show early, leave your coat in the car ( no matter how cold it is ), it's always warm inside the halls. If you buy something and it's a pain to carry around take it to your car, simple. 

And most of all, ENJOY THE SHOW. 

Dave

Take it all in, its your first show not your last, Walk the floor. I'm not a big show buyer but I do look at some of the pricing of new things on the table. Best example to me is if  they are selling a Williams engine for the full MSRP  I walk away from everything on the table.

Enjoy the show, and do a better job of picking your trains than you do your baseball team. Orange and Blue since 62! 

bill

Maybe things are different in other areas. In my area, local train shows have a mixture of business and hobbyist table holders. (We all must have tax numbers)
Many of today's visitors seem to think that every table holder is running a business.

Why is this significant? ... because many hobbyist table holders cannot take credit cards. Some won't take checks.  Most sell their goods "As is".

Some business table holders sell their goods "As is" too.

Be certain to ask.

If there is a test track at the show, take advantage of it.

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

Richie C. posted:

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

To sell at a lot of shows (in NJ) you are required to have a state sales tax ID even if you are a small seller.
If someone from the state checks you will have a problem.
I agree with you as that was the way shows used to be back in the 80's.
Some of the larger dealers do not charge sales tax but incorporate the tax into the selling price of a item.

Richie C. posted:

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

Well our Iowa taxman goes around mid morning and hands out forms, then comes back about hour later to collect them.  Granted, its the honor system as how much you report, especially if you do cash only sales.

rrman posted:
Richie C. posted:

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

Well our Iowa taxman goes around mid morning and hands out forms, then comes back about hour later to collect them.  Granted, its the honor system as how much you report, especially if you do cash only sales.

That is better than NJ.

I really like train shows, don't do eBay or other sites, very little online and sales tax is, what it is. I always use cash so whatever happens to the  $$ after I pay, I don't care. If the little guy wants it to help pay gas and lunch, good for him. The state wastes or steals half the money anyhow. Go to the show, go early, use cash, dress comfy and be alert and swift-strike quickly and get the deals. Enjoy.

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

In New York State, all table holders are required to have tax numbers, make payments and file their forms quarterly or annually depending upon dollar volume. That's even if you don't do any shows and have zero sales.

Are they turning over the money? ....... I build the tax into my asking price, and yes I do turn it in.

Ever notice a small corner store in your area accepting payments for this or that, and not ringing it into the register? I have.
Do you think they are paying taxes on that money?

juniata guy posted:

I've been in the hobby for 28 years and this thread has been nothing short of illuminating.  From suggestions on personal hygiene to negotiating tips and diet recommendations, I think just about everything has been covered short of make sure you have a full tank of gas and a fresh oil change.

Seriously; in all this time I've been attending train shows I had no idea there were this many unofficial rules.  We have a show coming up in Atlanta the 20th and I'm already debating whether I need to stay up late the night before to study and commit all these rules to memory.

To the OP; go to the show with your son; enjoy your time together and don't try to turn train show attendance into rocket science.  This is a hobby and supposed to be fun, for Gods sake!

Curt

PS:  Sorry for the sarcasm but geez...

r I need to stay up late the night before to study and commit all these rules to memory.

There will be a quiz so study hard

Chris Lonero posted:
Train Nut posted:

I bring money and my wife. That way im not afraid to come home!!

I’m not afraid to come home either!   My wife comes with me to every York! 

And...believe it or not...my wife is the one who makes sure WE attend York, the dates on the calendar to be sacrosanct...death, jury duty, or collecting on a Powerball winning ticket, the few exceptions!..., and she's the one on our team who haggles.  She's knowledgeable enough about the hobby, condition grading, and secondary market prices to know a fair price for an item.  As such, she's seldom run into a seller at York who would treat her rudely for her discussion over price or most anything trains related.   In fact, most of them enjoy the bargaining discussion!

Finally, she looks one heck of a lot better than me!!

Besides, having your spouse sharing this hobby and its special events like York makes a world of difference.  I know.  I've lived it both ways; Spouse #1..., spouse #2...!

KD

Hi! I try to have a theme - e.g., last York it was Southern Pacific cars to go with new Lionel AC9.  Another time it was New Haven stuff (love that paint scheme!).  When Vince of Vince's Trains was still at York he would upset my plan real quick though - had great selection of locos, many of which I hadn't thought about until I saw them.  Basic idea always is just have fun!

 

 

Last edited by hclarke

Ed, Some of that was pretty funny. Where did you find it? Apparently, I am related to:

Percy the Purist- Wouldn't think of buying a train unless it had all the original dust on it. 

I believe the dust to be part of the natural weathering.

Tom 

(My dusty but lovable prewar #228)

IMG_0721

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Skip the big shows and go to the smaller shows where the vendors are mostly regular folks.  Look under the tables.  Look for O gauge on a HO sellers table.  Make a quick trip around when you get there and then go back around at a slower pace.

Last edited by Former Member

Hi Guys:

I just joined the forum.  I've been going to train shows since the mid-80s and York since '89.

The collected wisdom of this group pools into an amazing wealth of knowledge, and it's pretty funny too!

I have only some small comments to add. 

One is that every train show is different, both in the style of the show and in your needs in attending it.  If you're looking for a refurbished ZW, you'll attend a local show where a guy you've seen before is sure to have a table full of transformers.  If you're looking to buy a boxed new train set, maybe you'll hit Greenbergs and see what Charles Ro has.  If you want to cruise junk boxes for parts, nothing beats York's Purple Hall.  Over time, and with experience you'll get selective and have a pretty good idea where things are and what shows have in store.  There are always surprises, but the guys you regularly deal with can usually be found in the same old corner, ready to do business.

I brought my nephew to York when he was 6.  He wanted a military train.  I introduced him to Maury Klein of K-Line who took an instant shine to Caleb and hand picked his new train from the stock he had on hand at the show.  Sometimes, bringing a kid to a toy show can be magical. 

One last item.  With rare exceptions, our trains are assembly line, mass produced toys that we want, not need.  If the deal can't be made to your satisfaction, don't be afraid to walk away.  As in the NYC subway, another train will be along presently. 

i go the last day and start around 12-4.  I see markdowns starting around 2pm.  so I will go around entire area and then come back and start dealing.  sometimes I get a good price depending on what is sitting there.  I primarily focus on buildings and rolling stock as engines are too iffy.  I like to deal with our forum guys on engines anyway.

 

C

The following is my strategy. It may vary from that of others and many of these have already been mentioned.

I don’t go into a show expecting to find certain items. I have a general idea what I want in each area (diesels, steamers, rolling stock, accessories, roadnames) but not specifics. Unless you are buying new or are at a large one like York it will be a crap shoot as what is at the show. This gives me the opportunity to buy when the condition and prices are right rather than forcing a specific purchase when it is not. If you go in wanting an XYZ only you are likely to either overpay or be disappointed.

I try not to buy the first time around the show. This gives me the opportunity to get the “lay of the land”, in other words, which vendors have good selection and prices and which do not, which items are plentiful and which are not, and how prices are at this show. At any show you are likely to find one or more vendor who is "dealing". Occasionally I’ll buy on the first go-around if it’s something I really want or the price is so good I will not even haggle on it, but that is rare. I Keep notes on my phone on what I wee of interest and where it is. Yes, sometimes it is gone when I come back, but I f I wanted it that bad, I would have bought it first round and I'll see another one someday. If it is a big show you can do this on a building by building basis.

My wife often comes and does one circuit of the show and even gets a thing or to, then she hangs out while I make subsequent rounds. I can drop off my purchases to her rather than walking them back to the car and she is kind enough to make sure I get fed (I forget about food at a train show!)

At every show there are vendors who think it is still the late 1990s and their wares are a priced accordingly. It’s kind of sad because I see them bring the same way overpriced stuff to show after how, year after year. I don’t understand how they can make any money. A few of these will come way down on price to a good deal in modern times, but that is rare. I usually just keep moving.

I go in with a fixed amount of money and deal in cash. Cash in hand is more likely to buy a deal and keeps me from overspending.

Always haggle, that is my rule. Occasionally I’ll break this rule if the price is incredible or it is a very small item, but even on good prices and good vendors I still try to get a little bit off. First, it makes me feel good, second it leaves more money for other things, even if they are small things. If I can’t come to terms with a vendor, I’ll often try bundling it with other smaller items that I have some interest in and that gets us both to where we want to be. Vendors who will not haggle are generally not the type of vendors I want to deal with anyway. On most every transaction I have had with non-hagglers I have regretted afterwards. I generally don’t buy unless I get a great deal. Remember, all this stuff was mass produced so there will be another one out there later, if you are willing to wait. Always be willing to walk away, but always do so courteously. Haggling gets easier with experience, so don’t worry If you are not good at it at first.

Always be courteous and smile. Acknowledge a vendor in some way who notices or speaks to you. A good attitude is the best start toward a good deal. A few vendors are jerks, most are not. Some buyers a jerks and a good attitude immediately elevates you above them.

Bring some grocery bags in your back pocket. Most vendors have bags, but is helpful to them when you have your own and it comes in really handy when a vendor does not or has run out.

I much prefer shows over online because you can touch and feel a piece. No amount of pictures can equate to that. You can also see how the vendor treats his merchandise and how he interacts with other customers to determine if it is the type of seller you want to do business with. Plus, no shipping charges.

I get there well after the opening to avoid the line and stay to the end. As she show winds down, there are many deals to be had. They would rather carry home cash than merchandise. Many vendors pack up early no matter what the rules or repercussions are, but if you time it right, this is when they are most likely to deal.

And of course, enjoy yourself in whatever way suits you. After all you _are_ at a TRAIN show!

My last train show purchase was a new in the box, though not "mint", LGB steeple cab E-lok. The seller had $200 on it, and after examining it, I asked if he could do better on the price, and he replied $175, and I purchased it. He had a Square and my wife paid him with her credit card. This transaction was before the start of the show, as I was a TCA member with a cane, and my 40 year train bud/gatekeeper let me in 30 minutes before the public was admitted! Came to find out from an LGB dealer friend that he listed his last 2030E lok at $330, and it sold quickly. It is a sweet runner, and I feel like I got a good deal!

Last edited by Tinplate Art
RonH posted:
Richie C. posted:

My pet peeve is small time dealers/sellers at shows who want to add sales tax to my purchase.

I can understand major dealers, like many of our forum sponsors, collecting sales tax because I'm confident the money will actually go the state but, seriously, does anybody think the guy with the 6' table from across the country and a supply of used scenery is really going to turn that sales tax money over to the state or is it just going to pay for his lunch and gas money ? 

To sell at a lot of shows (in NJ) you are required to have a state sales tax ID even if you are a small seller.
If someone from the state checks you will have a problem.
I agree with you as that was the way shows used to be back in the 80's.
Some of the larger dealers do not charge sales tax but incorporate the tax into the selling price of a item.

I have no issue with doing the tax thing, but if you're selling used equipment and dealing in cash, do everyone a favor and factor it into the price. That is what the vast majority of sellers do (or they're not doing the tax thing at all.) As a buyer I have no desire to screw with dimes, nickels and pennies at a show, and when I negotiate a price, that is what I expect to pay. It's hard enough keeping the bills organized during a show.

In the five shows I've attended in the last year I probably dealt with 30 or so vendors, all via cash. Only one added on tax, and before that he wouldn't haggle at all and was most unfriendly. Even had a little cash register to figure it up (that should have clued me in.) I wished I had set the trains down and waked away but I didn't.

MNCW posted:

Ed, Some of that was pretty funny. Where did you find it? Apparently, I am related to:

Percy the Purist- Wouldn't think of buying a train unless it had all the original dust on it. 

I believe the dust to be part of the natural weathering.

Tom 

(My dusty but lovable prewar #228)

IMG_0721

MNCW - I don't recall where this was from originally, thinking it was from one of the magazines, maybe CTT.  I had it saved as a scan many years ago.  Makes me laugh every time I read it.

C W Burfle posted:

On the question of sales tax.  If you pay a dealer in cash, how do we know he isn't pocketing the extra money ?   I can understand the tax thing if paying with a credit card, as I don't think the vendor can hide the tax from the taxman.

You don't.

You need to trust that people do the "right" thing.  I keep track of my sales at shows and pay the CA sales tax at year end.  It is no big deal and having a clear conscience is certainly better than not paying it.  We all get government services and they need to be funded.

NH Joe

New Haven Joe posted:
C W Burfle posted:

On the question of sales tax.  If you pay a dealer in cash, how do we know he isn't pocketing the extra money ?   I can understand the tax thing if paying with a credit card, as I don't think the vendor can hide the tax from the taxman.

You don't.

You need to trust that people do the "right" thing.  I keep track of my sales at shows and pay the CA sales tax at year end.  It is no big deal and having a clear conscience is certainly better than not paying it.  We all get government services and they need to be funded.

NH Joe

I do as well. But that's between the seller and the state. The buyer doesn't really know.

If the show is in the Great State of Michigan.

You can ask the seller to show you their, Michigan Sales Tax License.  I do this in state and  have done this at out of state shows and the seller will usually have it in a folder under their table.

You can ask and if they do not have the Sales Tax License for the state where the show is being held. I would not pay the sales tax.  This is what I do at train shows.

Have fun and good luck.

Gary

Son is asleep and is excited to be going tomorrow and getting a boxcar. Wife thinks she is coming down with the flu though,  so ... I may have to either scuttle these plans or attempt the show with a 3 year old AND a one year old.

I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.  Praying the wife gets well overnight.

Dan Padova posted:

Wow, that'll slow you down.  It may be aliitle late to look for a baby sitter.

I've taken them both to the zoo and a comic book convention by myself before ... but honestly neither one really involved me placing my attention anywhere other than my kids. 

This ... I don't think much, if anything,  would get accomplished. Of course I've  never been before, so who knows. Maybe my sanity could stay intact long enough to find and grab enough of the odd pieces of FasTrack i need to get the layout done on Monday.

Deuce posted:

Son is asleep and is excited to be going tomorrow and getting a boxcar. Wife thinks she is coming down with the flu though,  so ... I may have to either scuttle these plans or attempt the show with a 3 year old AND a one year old.

I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.  Praying the wife gets well overnight.

Deuce - your wife has my prayers as well!  You and that little boy of yours need to be at that show tomorrow!!

trumptrain posted:
Deuce posted:

Son is asleep and is excited to be going tomorrow and getting a boxcar. Wife thinks she is coming down with the flu though,  so ... I may have to either scuttle these plans or attempt the show with a 3 year old AND a one year old.

I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.  Praying the wife gets well overnight.

Deuce - your wife has my prayers as well!  You and that little boy of yours need to be at that show tomorrow!!   And all of us on this thread need to get a full report

 

Deuce posted:

Son is asleep and is excited to be going tomorrow and getting a boxcar. Wife thinks she is coming down with the flu though,  so ... I may have to either scuttle these plans or attempt the show with a 3 year old AND a one year old.

I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.  Praying the wife gets well overnight.

Aww, come on. This will be a true test of your Dad skills! I have done it, my boys are 3 years apart, and it is no simple job. I know I hated doing diaper duty in a men’s room, so I would always go out to my car. If you have bad weather where you are, it’s a thought. 

 If nothing else, it will give you a new story to tell...after you recover.

Last edited by Scrambler81

My feeling is that some sellers will get in a hough.  Others will oblige without question.  Depends on their mood I suppose.

NYS requires show promoters to collect table holder tax numbers. So I have to provide it on my show application / registration.
If an attendee asked to see my tax number, I'd want to know why. (I don't add sales tax to the price. I deduct it from my intake at tax time)
I guess I'd show it to him. Then I think I might refuse to sell him anything.

Unless you are a State IRS inspector, by asking to see a tax number I think you are questioning the seller's honesty, and marking yourself as a problem buyer. No thanks.

Last edited by C W Burfle

I would agree with 99% of what CW says, but unless you are a New York State employee from the Dept of Tax and Finance and you have proper ID to prove it, I am not showing you my tax certificate. 

I've been a vendor for around 15 years and nobody has ever asked to see it (although I carry it with me). In this age of identity theft, I don't believe in sharing information when it is not necessary. 

Tom 

Last edited by PRR8976

Overall a success. Didn't get everything on my list but got a fair portion.  Figured the FasTrack would be a tough buy and it's what I had to walk away from.  

We lasted about as long as I expected.  One hour, and the last thirty minutes he was all over the place, but he did good and he liked the show. We are at Chic fil A  now.  I'll detail things later after lunch.

Last edited by Deuce
Deuce posted:

Overall a success. Didn't get everything on my list but got a fair portion.  Figured the FasTrack would be a tough buy and it's what I had to walk away from.  

We lasted about as long as I expected.  One hour, and the last thirty minutes he was all over the place, but he did good and he liked the show. We are at Chic fil A  now.  I'll detail things later after lunch.

Fastrack not easy to get now?   What were you looking for that you didn't find? 

Jim 

So we got there around 10ish and it was a nice layout. One large O-scale train in the center of the hall running a Mickey Mouse GG1 with a Disney consist. My son loved watching it.  A fair amount of dealers selling mostly HO and O, though I saw N there as well.  

Someone actually recognized us from the forum.  They said they didn't post often but had read about my upcoming experience.  Unfortunately I am horrible with names and can't remember what he said his name was.  Sorry sir! I did appreciate the welcome however. 

Mostly did a walk through and nothing jumped out at me. Two dealers heavy into Lionel but at pretty high prices. I grabbed the minor parts I needed (wheel sets to convert my plastic wheeled O27 cars, and a handful of lockon's as well).

Finally grabbed my son a Lionel 16 wheeler and a set of intermodal containers for a flatbed car. Then grabbed a couple of dwarf signals and a passenger station. Went to the guy who sold me the lockon pieces and grabbed a couple of the attachments for the dwarf signals and wanted to buy a couple of pieces of O27 track. He sold me three boxes of the stuff for $10. So I won't run out of O27 for awhile! Grabbed a few more odds and ends and that was that.

I mostly asked for about 10% off, especially on that pieces I knew I was getting for much cheaper than I could get for it off eBay.

Only had one instance where I had to walk away.  The FasTrack was used and the prices were crazy. I mean $10 for a used piece of O36 half curve. Offered $55 for six pieces of 1.75", two 5", and two O36 half curve along with a manual O36 switch. He wanted $92 so I walked. I may have paid if it was new, but it was all old.

By that time it was about 11:30 and my son went from not touching anything and holding my hand, to wanting to touch everything and running down the aisles. Figuring that I grabbed about 60% of the stuff I wanted, and only spending $45 for it, I called it a day.

Thanks for all the advice folks. It helped, and we had a great time. Didn't get everything to complete the layout but I got most of it and the rest I can hopefully grab either here or on eBay.

I know my son will love to see our layout up and running so I'm hoping to get it done by Monday. 

Thanks again!

DEUCE, I have been watching this post from the beginning and you were given some excellent advice. Also, it’s nice you could take your son with you and expose him to the Model Train environment, the many different personalities with the common denominator, Trains. Regional LCCA, TCA train meets are fun. Buying, trading, seeing others ideas makes for a fun trip.  Personally, I have been to York 4 times, never made many purchases, but made many friends, learned many ways to enjoy my Model trains.  Although your many years younger than I, this truly is a Father and Son (family) hobby. I suggest you attend York, one time in your life.  It’s nice to see new folks coming into the best hobby in the world, Model Railroading. Thank you for your ideas, questions, and enthusiasm.

carsntrains posted:
Deuce posted:

Overall a success. Didn't get everything on my list but got a fair portion.  Figured the FasTrack would be a tough buy and it's what I had to walk away from.  

We lasted about as long as I expected.  One hour, and the last thirty minutes he was all over the place, but he did good and he liked the show. We are at Chic fil A  now.  I'll detail things later after lunch.

Fastrack not easy to get now?   What were you looking for that you didn't find? 

Jim 

Not many were selling and what was being sold was used with prices equal or greater than what you would pay for new.

I was looking for 1 3/4" and 4.5" or 5" straights and O36 half curve.  Looked for a manual switch too. 

Last edited by Deuce
carsntrains posted:

Deuce ugg that is crazy high pricing!   You can get it new from Mario's trains with free shipping !!! 

Jim 

I didn't know that.  The free shipping makes a huge difference.  I'll check them out!

ETA: checked them out and I think I'll never buy FasTrack any where but from them ever again! They're way cheaper than eBay and my LHS. Thanks for the tip.

Last edited by Deuce

I'm happy to hear you got to go. I missed mine today due to some kind of web site issue (no info & directions could be found this a.m....? A few days ago, no issue)

   Maybe it's a regional thing, but if the seller asks for the tax and has an issue with being asked to see the required papers to collect the tax, the problem would be the seller, not the buyer     And you do have to show them to the public or cease collecting it from the individuals, and do it out of pocket from the totals. 

   To avoid the hassles associated with false accusations by other dealers selling collectibles looking to oust some competition, I ALWAYS displayed my papers when I collected sales tax individually vs out of totals. I also produced tax exemption papers if buying for resale too, asked for or not  

   Call me crazy, but I also turned two "under the table" buisinesses I got involved with into taxpaying assets to the state

My state is "my club" and I willingly help to support it's financing     ...despite the lousy decisions they make

Deuce posted:
carsntrains posted:

Deuce ugg that is crazy high pricing!   You can get it new from Mario's trains with free shipping !!! 

Jim 

I didn't know that.  The free shipping makes a huge difference.  I'll check them out!

ETA: checked them out and I think I'll never buy FasTrack any where but from them ever again! They're way cheaper than eBay and my LHS. Thanks for the tip.

Deuce you are very welcome.   AND if you order over 200.00 you can get 15.00 off and free shipping!   

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